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Old 12-02-2016, 02:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default JRSC: air to water or heat exchanger?

im torn between the choice of
air to water
or
a basic heat exchanger

im more knowledgeable with turbo's this is my first time doing a supercharged set-up


ive seen a few different types. on looks like a radiator and has npt ports for cooling hoses and another just as a heat exchanger that looks like an intercooler and third an in-line 3in dual ported air to water 5x5x15 style with npt ports on the shaft to allow as a cooling chamber.

i have a buddy that did a water cooling setup like this and i wonder if i would be better going this route? haha

any input is welcomed.




i plan to make this an efficiant daily commuter with a 3.8in stock pulley so 6-8psi is all it will ever hit unsure as to what psi it will actually be
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Old 12-02-2016, 05:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What do you mean by a basic heat exchanger?

Assuming that you plan on going with a modified JRSC setup, a water-to-air intercooler with a custom manifold is about the only option.

Water/alcohol injection is also a good choice for the JRSC since it only requires drilling a few holes and installing the jets, reservoir, pump, and plumbing/wiring.
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Old 12-02-2016, 05:54 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paterico View Post
What do you mean by a basic heat exchanger?

Assuming that you plan on going with a modified JRSC setup, a water-to-air intercooler with a custom manifold is about the only option.



this is what im referring to is it pointless with a stock jrsc?


ive been debating if i should get a modified manifold made like the one pictured above with a cooling tube, i feel like intake temp will be ridiculous daily driving it and possibly heat soak the motor.

i really dont want to do methanol, then again a heat exchanger almost seems pointless to me without any sort of cooling plate
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
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water meth would be most cost effect way. its what i did. but spun a bearing before i could use it lol.
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Old 12-03-2016, 01:14 AM   #5 (permalink)
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water meth would be most cost effect way. its what i did. but spun a bearing before i could use it lol.
doesnt sound like it was very cost effective lol jk. i ran it a couple years back on a different turbo build from what i currently have. i didnt really car for it as to never seeing anything plausable from having it but then again i kinda just hooked it up and never really actually used it exept a couple WOT runs i guess its something to look into though
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Old 12-03-2016, 01:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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What size turbo did you have previously? Was it tuned?
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Old 12-03-2016, 08:09 AM   #7 (permalink)
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What would you use that radiator for if you didn't have a custom manifold?
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:22 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Was that Shanes setup? I remember when his car was dynoed, I think it put down around 220whp.

The Laminova cores worked great for him. I think his next setup was a non vtec y8 setup, then a K24.
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Old 12-03-2016, 04:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Nah that's something different. Doesn't look like a d series manifold unless it's for a DOHC ZC.

But the manifold Shane had made does work well. My IATs are in the 140s now on 90+ degree days.

If I could do it all over again, I'd position the blower the way that endyn did win their m62 kit and put laminova cores in the direct path between the supercharger and the intake runners.

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Old 12-04-2016, 01:36 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I run a heat exchanger to twin cooling cores in the intake manifold. I can't imagine you can do one without the other?





I haven't got it running yet to see the difference, but just to comment on your daily driving concern, it only really starts to get hot during constant boost at higher rpm. I didn't notice much of an intake temp spike while datalogging during regular driving (traffic etc). Off boost is no different to NA, and boost at low rpm didn't make a huge difference.
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Old 12-04-2016, 07:13 AM   #11 (permalink)
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^^you should install a fan on the heat exchanger. Made a huge difference on my setup.
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:44 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paterico View Post
^^you should install a fan on the heat exchanger. Made a huge difference on my setup.
Cheers for the insight. I've got a rad fan sandwiched between the heat exchanger and the radiator, but i don't think it will be particularly effective for drawing air through the heat exchanger (its intention was just to cool the radiator). I might look at installing another smaller one on the back of it on the passenger side, as you can see there's not much room at the front:





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Old 12-04-2016, 12:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Ah wasn't sure how your heat exchanger and radiator were setup. I have a simple 5x20" cooler and I had a perfect place to mount a small motorcycle rad fan where it extended
beyond the radiator:









Without the fan, I saw a few instances where the IATs were around 160 on a ~95 degree day. With the fan, the IATs peak around 140 and drop significantly quicker than they did before when I'm off throttle

I'm using a Bosch pump from a Cobra/Lightning. What kind of pump are you using?
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Old 12-04-2016, 07:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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What size turbo did you have previously? Was it tuned?
yeah i have 2 setups i have a z6 mild build with ac/ps on a greddy/trust TD04-14g w/ crome

on this motor(displaypic) i had the greddy TD04H-15G on xenocron's FOOK bin. its actually for sale z6 pan tapped full kit and caboodle, no ecu or fuel stuff.
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Old 12-04-2016, 07:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmerD View Post
Was that Shanes setup? I remember when his car was dynoed, I think it put down around 220whp.

The Laminova cores worked great for him. I think his next setup was a non vtec y8 setup, then a K24.


no it was Andy's, owner of VPT here in Wisc. he built on his B16 im debating on having him install cooling tubes like so
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Old 12-04-2016, 09:21 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I'm using a Bosch pump from a Cobra/Lightning. What kind of pump are you using?
Yeah that's the same pump as i'm using:



Also, I've never had much luck with those plastic clips and retainers that come with aftermarket rad fans. Instead i use a long threaded bolt and a nyloc nut with a large washer and a felt/rubber washer. It'll never rattle loose thanks to the plastic insert in the nut unlike those plastic pull clip things.

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Old 12-04-2016, 09:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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yeah i have 2 setups i have a z6 mild build with ac/ps on a greddy/trust TD04-14g w/ crome

on this motor(displaypic) i had the greddy TD04H-15G on xenocron's FOOK bin. its actually for sale z6 pan tapped full kit and caboodle, no ecu or fuel stuff.

Was wondering why you want to switch to a Jess set up?
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Old 12-04-2016, 10:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Was wondering why you want to switch to a Jess set up?
ive always wanted to try out a supercharger. ive done n/a nitrous. turbo nitrous now im gonna try jrsc. im working on a Crome mapping atm for it even with estimates ill go in and mess with it throughout time. i got all winter lol


mapping is nowhere near done but this is sofar where im at.
just incorperated boost tools now editing the stock map
retard degree @1.00%lb/psi and fuel at 105% current ideas
[IMG]mapping is nowhere near done but this is sofar where im at. just incorperated boost tools now editing the stock map retard degree @1.00%lb/psi and fuel at 105%









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Old 12-05-2016, 06:12 AM   #19 (permalink)
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doesnt sound like it was very cost effective lol jk. i ran it a couple years back on a different turbo build from what i currently have. i didnt really car for it as to never seeing anything plausable from having it but then again i kinda just hooked it up and never really actually used it exept a couple WOT runs i guess its something to look into though
lol i know right.

yea the spun bearing was to no fault of the meth as i handt even got a chance to run it.

without actually tuning with the meth you will see very little gains. the cooling effect ive noticed from most research has been around 30-50* cooler with meth (thats 50-50 mix of water and methanol)

the real gains come from the knock prevention you get from the added "octane" from the methanol. this means when you tune you can advance your timing more and get more power.

im gonna be running a turbo set up of the engine now and plan to keep the meth on it so ill soon have more first hand information.

as for price and stuff. about 200-400 depending on if you put together your own parts of buy a kit. 50-50 meth solution is about 8 bucks for a gallon(unless you buy pre mixed stuff then its like 20) our small engines dont hardly use any so that would last you a while.

as for the heat exchanger. if you go that route with like LHT its over 1k building your self could be cheaper but i bet still more than 400.
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Old 12-05-2016, 06:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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im a junkyard fanatic sometimes lol if i dont want to buy something new ill go get it at a junkyard and macgyver something up. like how Paterico has his set-up ive thought about making one similar out of an oil or trans cooler with a pump.

one day a few years back me and the buddies got drunk at the shop and i came up with the idea of cutting open a manifold and do a close spun double helix with bent copper tubing from one side to the other and then a transfer into a braided line to an inter-cooler cooler purge with co2 to lower internal temp. cool idea but never did it. probably would have been more interference then efficient. couple probably do the same thing using Freon with a custom ac setup with a stock pump to an optimized cooler. actually that might work haha
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