Turbo question? - D-series.org

Go Back   D-series.org Motor Mayhem & Suspension Satisfaction Forced Induction

D-Series.org is the premier Honda All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-29-2016, 11:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
xile6's Avatar
 
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tx
Posts: 6,365
Rep Power: 25 xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 9 reviews
Default Turbo question?

So my friend was asking me some questions about turbos and how there size and power is different.
I was explaining to him that psi doesnt mean much without a turbob size reference.
Kinda like saying or its 10 long. 10 what inch, feet, miles..
He understood.

Explain to him a turbo doesnt add the amount its made for.
I.e. if a turbo can flow 300hp thats the max hp a car will output with that turbo.
The turbo isnt adding 300hp to the 100hp base the car alreadys has (400hp in total).
This is correct right?
Long time ago its how i was total. And it was the reason v8 dont run 350hp turbos. The motor would out flow the turbo and what not.


Now to his question.
If 2 cars run the same turbo but have different base hp. Will they need the same psi to equal the same amount of hp?

I know if 2 cars same build and same tuner will net around the same hp. Different tuners can net different hp.

But lets say car A has 100hp base and runs 10psi on X turbo and makes 200hp.
Now car B has 150hp base and runs the same 10psi on the same turbo.
Will car B net more then 200hp?

I read over the compressor map reading stuff and i know different cars need and output different cfm at different rpms. Giving the spool time, and seeing if the turbo is to big or small but trying to understand this hp output.
__________________
Rep when need.
I also have shopkey if you need diagrams PM me. I am a Wiring Master.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. RIP

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
xile6 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-29-2016, 04:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
D-series PIMP
 
buzzbomb's Avatar
 
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hell Ayyyye!
Posts: 1,079
Rep Power: 17 buzzbomb is hot as a volcano
buzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcano
iTrader Score: 14 reviews
Default

the turbo on car b only needs to be 51% as effective to exceed 200hp.
so probably yes. but many variables apply.....
__________________
I'm all about the d's (.Y.) yo!
97 dx coupe stolen
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

00 dx coupe with lowering springs, integra brakes, and boosted d16z6!
Quote:
Also, get the fuck out of my thread, you 5th gen pussy.
J.M. Maclean, deployed 3-29-2013 to Afghanistan.
Returned 9-22-2013.
buzzbomb is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2016, 05:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
xile6's Avatar
 
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tx
Posts: 6,365
Rep Power: 25 xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 9 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzbomb View Post
the turbo on car b only needs to be 51% as effective to exceed 200hp.
so probably yes. but many variables apply.....
Yea, thats what i am trying to find is a for sure answer.
Car B flows more exhaust into the turbo. Spooling it up faster. But when it runs the same psi as car A is the power output going to be the same.
Would it choke the motor causing the power output to be around the same.


And whats what im trying to wrap my head away. What if 10psi is the max the turbo can run and that will be 200hp.

I know if you put a k04 turbo on a big motor it will have instant boost but choke the motor and not let it breath to make power.
__________________
Rep when need.
I also have shopkey if you need diagrams PM me. I am a Wiring Master.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. RIP

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
xile6 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-02-2016, 02:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
D-series PIMP
 
buzzbomb's Avatar
 
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hell Ayyyye!
Posts: 1,079
Rep Power: 17 buzzbomb is hot as a volcano
buzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcanobuzzbomb is hot as a volcano
iTrader Score: 14 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xile6 View Post
Yea, thats what i am trying to find is a for sure answer.
Car B flows more exhaust into the turbo. Spooling it up faster. But when it runs the same psi as car A is the power output going to be the same.
Would it choke the motor causing the power output to be around the same.


And whats what im trying to wrap my head away. What if 10psi is the max the turbo can run and that will be 200hp.

I know if you put a k04 turbo on a big motor it will have instant boost but choke the motor and not let it breath to make power.
yes, depending on the displacement difference and flow of the heads.
for example a from a d16 to a b20...
the small turbo will probably still get you to 200 hp, but 'run out of puff' thereabouts.
on a sbc, probably not, but you might already be past 200 hp without the turbo....

you're just trying to get more oxygen in the cc so you can release energy from MORE fuel at a time....
__________________
I'm all about the d's (.Y.) yo!
97 dx coupe stolen
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

00 dx coupe with lowering springs, integra brakes, and boosted d16z6!
Quote:
Also, get the fuck out of my thread, you 5th gen pussy.
J.M. Maclean, deployed 3-29-2013 to Afghanistan.
Returned 9-22-2013.
buzzbomb is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2016, 05:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
xile6's Avatar
 
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tx
Posts: 6,365
Rep Power: 25 xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 9 reviews
Default

But as for power output from the same turbo but two different base hp.

Do they make the same hp per lb or does the higher base power motor, need less lbs of boost to make the same amount out hp.

And if that is true. Then do both cars max out the turbo at the same hp?

Just trying to get a better understanding of same size turbos and different cars.
__________________
Rep when need.
I also have shopkey if you need diagrams PM me. I am a Wiring Master.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. RIP

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
xile6 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2016, 10:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
Classic Man
 
FarmerD's Avatar
 
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mission Raceway
Posts: 16,355
Rep Power: 59 FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
iTrader Score: 6 reviews
Default

Think of it as compounding two compressors. The turbo and the engine. Its really hard to break it down into solid numbers like you ask above. There are soooo many variables.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by patprimmer
Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Ford
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.
FarmerD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-08-2016, 12:21 AM   #7 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1
Rep Power: 0 Coupeftw is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

If you have two of the same engines let's say 1.6. One makes 100 hp the second one has a ported head and makes 150. If you put the same turbo at the same psi the 150 hp base engine will still make more power because it is a more efficient system with the better flowing heads.

Think of it this way if turbo psi and flow where the only things that mattered, then no one would ever bother with turbo cams or better manifolds.
Coupeftw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-13-2016, 05:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
Ozwald's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Good Old New York State
Posts: 174
Rep Power: 7 Ozwald will become famous soon enoughOzwald will become famous soon enoughOzwald will become famous soon enough
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Like stated there are too many variables.

The turbo, at 10psi at given rpm it flows a given amount of air. Hp is basised off air flow.

The engines, with different power levels, the engines flow different amounts of air.

So, If you make each engine flow the same amount of air, you will spin the turbo at the same speed, the one with more starting power will spool the turbo quicker (lower RPM)

Thats my stab at it trying to keep it simple and all veriables aside
Ozwald is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2016, 07:23 AM   #9 (permalink)
wise in the ways of the D
 
AutoXCivic's Avatar
 
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 1,754
Rep Power: 25 AutoXCivic Still a JDM Star....
AutoXCivic Still a JDM Star....AutoXCivic Still a JDM Star....AutoXCivic Still a JDM Star....AutoXCivic Still a JDM Star....AutoXCivic Still a JDM Star....AutoXCivic Still a JDM Star....AutoXCivic Still a JDM Star....AutoXCivic Still a JDM Star....AutoXCivic Still a JDM Star....AutoXCivic Still a JDM Star....
iTrader Score: 19 reviews
Send a message via AIM to AutoXCivic Send a message via MSN to AutoXCivic Send a message via Yahoo to AutoXCivic
Default

Think of it in pressure ratios instead of PSI.

100 hp engine need 2x the air (pressurized air is more air) to double it's power. So you need a turbo running a pressure ratio of 2 to get to 200 hp.

150 hp engine only needs a pressure ratio of 1.3ish to get to that same 200 hp.

You don't need to compress the air as much for engine number 2 because you don't need to add as much more fuel to get to the power goal.

Yes super over simplified ... I know.

A turbo is like a "precompressor" or if you are into music a pre amp.
__________________
Straight lines are for sissies.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
<--- Stolen
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
<--- Sold.

Quote:
barrel roll in airplane > barrel roll in nsx
AutoXCivic is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-15-2016, 07:49 AM   #10 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
xile6's Avatar
 
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tx
Posts: 6,365
Rep Power: 25 xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 9 reviews
Default

Thank you guys for all the info.
It was just something that had me a bit confused.
Since i was thinking about if a turbo is only good for X amount of hp, how that would relate to different cars and what not.

But i believe i got a understanding of it.
__________________
Rep when need.
I also have shopkey if you need diagrams PM me. I am a Wiring Master.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. RIP

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
xile6 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-02-2017, 03:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
n00b
 
Pengo's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Donetsk People Republic
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0 Pengo is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via ICQ to Pengo Send a message via Skype™ to Pengo
Default

let's say I have an engine making 130hp at 6800 rpm. let it's volumetric efficiency will be equal to 103%. Also, I have the engine making 103hp at 6800 rpm. Its volumetric efficiency is 82%. Volumetric efficiency depends on porting the head, camshaft, compression ratio, etc. I got Garrett gtx2860r and goal 200hp. I must use 7.8psi boost for 200hp at 6800 rpm with the first engine and for the same power at the same rpm with second engine I need 13.5psi. Power depends on the amount consumed air by the engine. So I think the choice of the turbocharger is directly dependent on the which zone of turbocharger efficiency will be air consumption of a given engine for a given power.
If I'm wrong please correct me.
Unfortunately I can not show a picture of a compressor map and my calculations, because of post count must be greater.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pengo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-03-2017, 01:16 AM   #12 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
mattliston's Avatar
 
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: La Crosse,WI
Posts: 5,771
Rep Power: 32 mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !mattliston is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
iTrader Score: 10 reviews
Default

you cannot go car A has 100hp, and car B has 200hp, and expect a turbo that flows enough for 350hp to do better on car B

What if that carB is a 1.0L 3cylinder metro banging out 200hp on a GT25 and car A is a lazy GM 2.2L 4cyl making 100hp?

That turbo on the 2.2 will spool way faster, make more power at the same internal wastegate spring, and all around destroy that 1L 3cyl.

Like posted, the shear number of variables makes it near impossible to tell what will actually happen unless math is done, or there are very relative examples already built around.
__________________

2003 Hyundai Sonata GLS 2.7 Delta 197k
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1998 Cadillac Seville SLS just broke 100k
2001 civic LX coupe MTX 199k
Sometimes, the difficult path is the easiest path
D/B/F/H/K compression questions?

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Build what you have!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

mattliston is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-03-2017, 02:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
n00b
 
Pengo's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Donetsk People Republic
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0 Pengo is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via ICQ to Pengo Send a message via Skype™ to Pengo
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattliston View Post
you cannot go car A has 100hp, and car B has 200hp, and expect a turbo that flows enough for 350hp to do better on car B

What if that carB is a 1.0L 3cylinder metro banging out 200hp on a GT25 and car A is a lazy GM 2.2L 4cyl making 100hp?

That turbo on the 2.2 will spool way faster, make more power at the same internal wastegate spring, and all around destroy that 1L 3cyl.

Like posted, the shear number of variables makes it near impossible to tell what will actually happen unless math is done, or there are very relative examples already built around.
Oh yes, yes, of course displacement is important thing. I forgot to mention in my example, let dispacement of both engines will be 1.5L.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pengo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the D-series.org forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Security Question
*Required, this field is not shown to others: While balancing on a piece of wood, two inches by four inches known as a 2x4, john and his friend sally both spotted a dalmatian inside a truck with sirens, headed to put out a fire. State what kind of animal is mentioned in the sentence above.
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


iconAll times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:05 AM. | Welcome to Forum, please register to access all of our features.