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Old 10-24-2016, 02:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default SPA Top Mount or Ramhorn?

I'm building two side by side cars, an MB2 and an MC1 Aerodeck, the Aerodeck is a D16Y8 and the MB2 is a D14Z4

I'm looking to turbo them both, I'm not looking for Hundreds of HP but maybe 140-150 from the 1.4 and 200 from the 1.6

I Keep seeing mention of SPA Top mounts being awesome due to fast spool times, but has anyone got any input how the SPA compares to a Ramhorn?

I'm looking at a CX-Racing ramhorn or SPA top mount, running a smallish t3 on around 6psi

Thanks for help
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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word of advice, stay away from cheap china tubular manifolds like the ramhorn ( they look like shit and the welds fail).
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Looks like I'll be going SPA then
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
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i had really really good luck with my godspeed ramhorn manifold, never a single crack in it.

However if i could manage it, i would rather have the spa top mount with the adapter to straighten it up.
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Old 10-25-2016, 01:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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For the D14 get a Cast log manifold ,and a Garrett GT2056S .You'll find them in europe on the Iveco daily 2.8L engines or renault mascott 2.8L ,or fiat ducato 2.8.
The Garrett GT2056S is perfect for the D14, suitable for 1.4 - 2.0L engines ,fast spooling turbo with a wide compressor map good up to +260hp. Another good turbo for this engine is the stock Wrx sti TD04h-13T turbo .It's comparable with the garrett ,but the garrett will spool earlier and has a wider compressor map. T3 turbo's will work too but if you're after fast spool times ,i would step away from the T3 turbo for the D14 engine.Even the D16 engine would work great with a GT20/Gt22 , TD04-13t ,TD04-16T.

Here's a stock D14 with a TD04-13t turbo ,its has about 170hp (at the crank) .Most of the D14's get around 180hp (at the crank) on about 7psi ,that's also the max you can safely run on the stock bottom end.I've seen one guy that ran 9psi and got 190chp ,160ft/Lb of torque but it blew up after a few years.

Last edited by hondanickx; 10-25-2016 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 10-25-2016, 02:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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That's interesting info re the 2.8 engines.
I don't know if they were available in the USA, though.
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Old 10-26-2016, 05:47 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondanickx View Post
For the D14 get a Cast log manifold ,and a Garrett GT2056S .You'll find them in europe on the Iveco daily 2.8L engines or renault mascott 2.8L ,or fiat ducato 2.8.
The Garrett GT2056S is perfect for the D14, suitable for 1.4 - 2.0L engines ,fast spooling turbo with a wide compressor map good up to +260hp. Another good turbo for this engine is the stock Wrx sti TD04h-13T turbo .It's comparable with the garrett ,but the garrett will spool earlier and has a wider compressor map. T3 turbo's will work too but if you're after fast spool times ,i would step away from the T3 turbo for the D14 engine.Even the D16 engine would work great with a GT20/Gt22 , TD04-13t ,TD04-16T.

Here's a stock D14 with a TD04-13t turbo ,its has about 170hp (at the crank) .Most of the D14's get around 180hp (at the crank) on about 7psi ,that's also the max you can safely run on the stock bottom end.I've seen one guy that ran 9psi and got 190chp ,160ft/Lb of torque but it blew up after a few years.
The Turbo I have already for the D14 is a pretty small Garrett .49/.48AR turbo off a buick of some kind I got on ebay for $30 and like $22 shipping to the UK - Like £40, I am intending on looking for something similar for the D16Y8 - Probably like a Garrett GT2252

I understand that the larger the turbo the lower its efficency and higher the lag will be due to the mass it has to move to compress the air etc etc the smaller the A/R of the back end of the turbo the faster it responds but drops off faster etc - I'm no stranger to Turbo cars owning an R32 GTR as a summer car and previously owning an S14

I sort of worked out that a small T3 .48AR would be enough to make a decent amount of power on both vehicles which from the looks is about right. though my friend told said I should run a twin-IHI RHB31 setup on the D14 purely for the fun
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Old 10-27-2016, 01:43 AM   #8 (permalink)
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At www.dieselevante.it/turbochargers.asp
You can Find where most turbo's are used on what car. Just type in the search Gt2252 for example. The gt2056s is a very efficiėnt turbo up to 78%.
They recently removed it from the garrett website, don't know why though.Just stay away from the models that end with a V like the Gt2252V. They use a variable turbine wheel for diesel cars.

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Old 11-01-2016, 06:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I decided to look at the RHB5 turbo from a Mazda 323 (1.6) which looks fairly promising and should give a decent spool at lower RPMs. I'll need an adapter plate to match it to a T3 manifold but thats a minor inconvenience and will be part of the whole build
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Old 11-14-2016, 08:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I can't recall who it was, but he tried an RHB5 on his 1.5L and loved it. He said it felt like a big V6 in his Civic. It made something like 180hp/180tq at the wheels, which is something like 160kW at the crank for Euro figures. It made peak torque very low, maybe 2500rpm if I recall the dyno graph. It's also fairly common & cheap.
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:22 PM   #11 (permalink)
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See, the Spa is nice, but the center cavity is so huge, the pulses get all fuct up.

I mean the typical cast with runners like Autoworks sells would be better. They do get restrictive towards upper bands, but with a tiny engine, you should have no problem.

Id stay away from welded manifolds. some people have had good luck, but my experience has taught me that the welds hold the heat and eventually crack.

If I liked to re-weld it every month, theyre great. But i ditched mine and went cast.
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