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Old 12-18-2015, 09:57 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Post Help motor rod knocking again FML....

Help I just re rebuild this dang motor again. d16z6 head new seals/valve guide seals etc. shimmed for valve and angle grind. etc. arp heads 75.5mm eagle h beam rods with notched block. all new fresh pump seals etc.
the prob before was I ran this car up a hill with 1/2 quart low non turbo. at about 3k miles . then it knocked and couldn't even start up in the morning. firdst build had prob. with too tight bearings rod with aftermarket. so I ran it was about. .001 always I plastigauged it. idk what to do I ran also the lightest thinnest bearing for the eagle h beam rods fml.

the second build I rebuild and took it to a machinest he told me that the rods caps was stitched 1 and 4 and number 4 was locked up causing the no start etc.

the second build I build gave him too rebuild the motor he used the acl std bearing and ended up sanding the rod bearings the mains where on point.

ok so I got my turbo setup all good and a map that was previously tuned for this setup. I got it running great for about 3k miles the previously days I changed oil had couple of glittery looking still didn't go away.

I ran it fine hard for a couple of weeks and it seemed good no problem and 2 stepping boost build. and hitting boost. used 15w40 oil.
last week changed oil/filter. I ran the vehicle seen my hondata s300 iPhone app I don't usually run the car hard until I warm it up at least 190degree or what not. after couple of miles.

but I noticed that day I couldn't wait for it to run I did a 2 step at my house build boost 4k at 6psi fml. I then drove it and I heard like a weird load noise at 3- 4k rpm fml...
I thought it was fine. drove it highway. all afr where all good and no lean or what not.


I heard the noise knocking it became noitice louder. the oil pressure gauge read zero had it hooked up to the oil sandwitch plate also feed lines. fkk I just had to drive it home.
came home ddrain the oil was very black I only had the oil changed like a week ago. it had glitter and little bearing material in the oil plug magnet.

I needs to get this car running.

im going to drop the oil pan and is it possible to still save this I kind of doubt but S**T I been through a lot need to get a car running....
would I able to just run change the rod bearings and possible just at least run it. I need to get this car running. do u guys any have chance of saving a motor like this condition. needs to run. or this is just pretty much dust.
lmk ....
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Old 12-18-2015, 12:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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depends on how beat up the journal is ,also all oil passages and other bearings will be full of glitter ...
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Old 12-18-2015, 04:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-VXEG View Post
the oil was very black I only had the oil changed like a week ago.
Maybe it's not how you built the motor, maybe it's how you're treating it. 2-step isn't good for your motor, regardless if it's hot/cold.

The most common type for building boost is ignition cut, which means you have liquid fuel in the cylinders til after the exhaust valves open. A lot of that fuel makes it's way into your crankcase, leading to contaminated oil (odd color, thin, smells like fuel). Oil thinned by fuel, even a small amount, has terrible lubrication properties. Gasoline is an old backup solvent, so think about it.

Another problem is not letting your motor warm up, and I'm sure you already know. Oil that's thick from being cold doesn't lube as well either, regardless of pressure.
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Old 12-18-2015, 04:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I think I would take the rod caps off and look to see if any of the rod journals are scored. If they are, take crank to get machined .010" and get new bearings.
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Old 12-19-2015, 07:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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You never want to remove material off a Honda crank, most of it's magic is in the surface treatment. If the mains are okay but the rods are tight, you can have the rods honed a hair or two. One builder I know swears 90% of all china rods (inc Eagle) are not 100% round and always has them honed for at least roundness. You shouldn't DIY it since 99.9% of non-pro hones are pivot-style meant for deep cylinders.
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Old 12-19-2015, 08:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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OP is an idiot so I'm not shocked he keeps lunching motors.

go buy a nice camry and don't fuck with it
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Old 12-19-2015, 08:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Det.

Turbo engines get changed <1500 Miles IMO
Sometimes earlier based on how you run it.
Smell it, Feel it, Look at it

I'm with Shoebox here, though, until you prove otherwise.

I've never killed an engine...

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Old 12-28-2015, 08:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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i checked the motor out dropped the oil pan had the load of glitter bearing materials. the number 3 rod was the culprit again with a blue finish on the dam rod cap is hard. remove the cap and the bearing was like wedged smashed in a corner of the rod smashed.

i sanded the rod journals with wet sand paper 600 or 400 grit sand paper. it had slight scratch but no deep groove in them. I've also sanded with oil the rod end caps rods until the slight black color came off looks smooth . nice.
cleaned the pan and put back the bearing with an extra std acl bearing i had.


put new engine oil 15w40 rotella oil and lucas engine oil stabilizer i ran the car started. tried to build oil pressure without spark plugs etc.
F**ker starts up but with excessive noise. started it up then i revved the F**k
out this motor. i watched the engine oil pressure gauge it was good….
very stron oil pressure i revved it 2 step the motor hard. let it idle like for 10-15 minutes without it knocking..
it works. oil pressure was very strong at engine idle unlike before 40psi to more i forgot though. it was way stronger than the last build.


i didn't drive the motor. but oil pressure was very strong and no knocks when revving i should of not rechange the oil?

went to buy another set of new oil and stabilizer. put them and restarted the motor. knocks again. but oil pressure was slightly less and revved the F**K out of it.
no knocking again.. waited for it to reach op temp.


pounded the S**t of this motor. drove it for a like 5 miles. i heard a slight knock kicking in and engine oil pressure became F**N low again like 15psi .

so another build is up and in need.. fml.
i remembered my friend did one at his work a dodge van and it knocked but they did the same thing i did and until today that dodge don't knock anymore they just changed the bearing on the oil pan dropped and ran lucas with heavy weight oil.

mines however didn't last. 2nd oil change it knocked when test driven.

is my cylinder head still usable?
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Old 12-28-2015, 08:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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in need help to get this car running again.
can i salvage the cylinder head ported slight built and reuse my arp head studs kit with this motor? and put it on a high milage d15z1 engine block??? need help i already got a head gasket set on its way oem.

d16z6 head arpz and d15z1 block? the block has like 200,xxx miles plus on it but it ran very hard everyday never blew a gasket. also no leaks but it had good compression also before.

need this car back asap d15z1 block Z6 head>>>>???
maybe new gaskets and timing belt water pump?
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Old 12-29-2015, 10:46 AM   #10 (permalink)
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You need to stop driving cars. It is beyond stupid to just sit and rev and engine at idle when not warm or in. Also sitting on 2 step, loading an engine like that when cold is not good at all. Your going to blow motor after motor until you learn to take care of it. Your head is most likely reusable, but I would send it to the machine shop to get it pressure washed to get all the crap out of it.
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Old 12-29-2015, 11:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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You need to stop driving cars. It is beyond stupid to just sit and rev and engine at idle when not warm or in. Also sitting on 2 step, loading an engine like that when cold is not good at all. Your going to blow motor after motor until you learn to take care of it. Your head is most likely reusable, but I would send it to the machine shop to get it pressure washed to get all the crap out of it.
i know i was heavily kinda hesitant for a while with warming before even raising hell with it didn't have a problem until that happened. next time i will know and be more disiplined . also not revving out my friend to build boost. i will use the boost build 2step feature if i only race and if necessary fk.

i will get that head checked cleaned and prob. put on a d15z1 engine block.
i have a healthy d15z1 block and need a motor running. will this motor be match with the z6 head?
good for boost i heard the comp. is 7 to one?

i can reuse the arp head bolts and a new timing belt gasket. prob maybe a tune. need this car running asap no car to use for daily at the moment. until i get enough to build the other motor i have.
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Old 12-30-2015, 04:28 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Recommendations from me based on what I have read

A) STOP FUCKING DRIVING HARD COLD. the best motor in the world will die QUICKLY if you do that. a cold motor has zero lubrication.

B) ask for a break-in guide from the guy who rebuilt the motor. Follow his advice to the goddamn T

C) stop using 15w-40. I dont care how much power you add. Most likely the shop who built the motor followed OEM spec except ring gap and P2W gap, which should be opened up of course. Now if every tolerance was increased, thicker oil might be okay. BUT an OEM oil pump still doesnt like pushing cold 15w-40. Do you live in texas or california where is warmer most of the time?




Regarding d15z1. compression is NOT ultra low like 7 or even 8. THAT is when you use the Z1 pistons in a normal d15 or d16 block. The d15z1 has a cylinder head with tiny combustion chamber. Basically it makes all compression with the head, as the piston is a giant dish.
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Old 12-30-2015, 07:22 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Another thought - maybe your torque wrench is about as accurate as a weatherman. Even an expensive snap-on can be damaged w/improper use, and most eventually need to be re-calibrated. Professionals measure bolt clamping force by how much it stretches the bolt, not by torque, since torque simply indicates stretch.

Also using "400 or 600 grit" probably didn't help. You have to go higher than that, and most people aren't skilled enough to DIY. Not checking the clearance probably didn't help either.
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Old 12-30-2015, 08:48 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattliston View Post
Recommendations from me based on what I have read

A) STOP FUCKING DRIVING HARD COLD. the best motor in the world will die QUICKLY if you do that. a cold motor has zero lubrication.

B) ask for a break-in guide from the guy who rebuilt the motor. Follow his advice to the goddamn T

C) stop using 15w-40. I dont care how much power you add. Most likely the shop who built the motor followed OEM spec except ring gap and P2W gap, which should be opened up of course. Now if every tolerance was increased, thicker oil might be okay. BUT an OEM oil pump still doesnt like pushing cold 15w-40. Do you live in texas or california where is warmer most of the time?




Regarding d15z1. compression is NOT ultra low like 7 or even 8. THAT is when you use the Z1 pistons in a normal d15 or d16 block. The d15z1 has a cylinder head with tiny combustion chamber. Basically it makes all compression with the head, as the piston is a giant dish.
i sure learned my lesson regardless i want to rev my friends out lol.

how about i slap the d16z6 head w/arpz on the z1 stock block will that be low compression i heard people using that with boost. i just need a vehicle to run for now.thats why and i have a spare good d15z1 block. it had good compression readings when i took it out. it high milage like 22X,XXX plus. tho.
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Old 12-30-2015, 09:27 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Dont bother with a head swap on that d15z1. drive it stock block, find a stock california model tune for it (cali models are 4 wire O2, federal 49 state are 5 wire)

You want to swap heads and simply install shit and drive. WRONG WAY TO DO IT.

Quit wasting your money.go buy a beat up corolla or something for $300 and drive that while your turbo car is getting repaired.

Then learn how to drive
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Old 01-09-2016, 04:56 PM   #16 (permalink)
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wow, Just start over and do a little more research. This isn't a cheap hobby and you're hurting your pockets.
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Old 01-12-2016, 05:36 AM   #17 (permalink)
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The autisms are strong in this thread.
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:12 AM   #18 (permalink)
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stop using the same crank.... should be obvious! Second find a new engine builder.
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