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Picked up this b18

6K views 31 replies 15 participants last post by  mindless 
#1 ·
Whats up everyone, for the longest time I had plans to do a vitara build on my d16z6. I already had the motor on the engine stand and had already started tearing it down. But I found this guy that had just bought a gsr and was getting rid of his b18b1 for cheap so I picked it up. I am kind of unsure what direction I need to go now. This is my first b-series and I know very little about them. I do know that I wanna boost around 350 whp range and it will be a DD but I dont know if I should do stock b18 turbo or build it first. I know obviously that built is better but Im looking at at least another $1500with forged internals and parts for rebuild.The motor came out of a 96 integra ls with 110k miles. And he showed me videos of it running. This will be my first turbo build. What are your guys opinions? thanks
 

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#2 ·
if I were you I would build it first and then boost. you never know how a 110K mile old engine will play with a turbo. building it first reduces the chances of things blowing somewhere down the line.

use the money to build it and turbo if you have some left. if there isn't much left, save up and bolt on a turbo when you have enough.
 
#4 ·
350 whp is around 400 at the crank.. For that kinda power the sleeves wont hold up to the lateral forces and pressures..

Re sleeving will need to be done. GE or laskey has some of the best sleeving.


Now if you lower your power goals to 300whp, you can get away with stock sleeves.

The weak point on the LS are the weak rods. A simple rod and piston swap will insure reliability down the road.. Personally i would stay in the 9.1-9.8 compression for street drivability and better spool response and better gas mileage.

Manifold design, proper turbo sizing, exhaust size all plays a factor in the behavior of your set up. So expect to spend 3 grand for quality parts, tuning, etc..

**Just so happens Im selling brand new forged LS Rods and ACL bearings for cheap.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Seriously, Ive done the research already. Sure people have thrown 400 hp on a stock bottom, but they havent lasted.. So after its all over and done would you rather do a build twice or do it right the 1st time.

Edit: heres someone who didnt listen to me and decided they wanted a 350whp set up.








CYL 1 - broken rod, melted piston
CYL 2 - bent rod
CYL 3 - another bent rod
CYL 4 - broken ring land

theres always the young idiot that just straps up a turbo to their car and learns thru blowing it up a few times. Then theres the guy who does research to prevent that from happening the 1st time around.. which will you be?
 
#7 ·
Holy poop sticks! Yeah, and LS isn't gonna hold much more than 300......with a good (awesome) tune. I would say with GSR rods you MIGHT up that by 20hp....maybe.


I say scrap the ls for forged D internals or lower your goal to 300hp. 300hp will still make you shit yourself. Its a good round number to perform like a bawse at the track and making passing people in the highway a breeze. Either choice is a good one, though.
 
#10 ·
I was always under the assumption that 400 horsepower was the limit for a D or a B when it comes to sleeve horsepower limit. I'm sure 350 horsepower is pushing it though.
 
#11 ·
There are guys running 400+ hp on stock sleeves all day. You just need good internals and a great tune. On both b's and d's.
 
#12 · (Edited)
well, theres plenty of threads out there.. primarily on honda tech discussing the sleeve designs of the B20 and LS. They can handle 300-350hp (not WHP) but after that, the side loading and high compression will eventually give. Or they may hold up.. its a roll of the dice on many factors. Tune, ring break in, crank breather set up, etc..

Im not trying to sell the guy on sleeving..its piece of mind for the 400+ crank HP he's shooting for. Rods will def be needed for anything above the 275 area. (for piece of mind)
I dont know the condition of the block either.. Taking out the OEM pistons and rods and inspecting everything goes a long way then your average comp/leakdown.

Again, these are steps for longevity thru proper planning (ask me how i know)



Im going to say farewell to this thread.. Good luck to you Slumdog on the B or D.
 
#14 ·
I appreciate all the feedback everyone I've come to a decision. I took the valve cover off today and the motor is sludged up like a mofo. Looks like I'm going to be doing a full overhaul on this thing. Its gonna take alota time and money but I guess once I get through it all it will be a bulletproof motor (hopefully). I wanna have it done for next summer so I guess we will see what happens. My plans for right now are having the block bored .20 over, eagle rods, cp or je pistons (not sure what compression ratio yet). OEM gaskets and seals. If I have enough money I'll put it into the head, but right now the block is my main concern. Ill get a build thread started once i get this thing on the stand and start tearing it down. If you guys got comments/suggestions let me know.
 

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#17 ·
Thanks man, ill definately be looking through this. By the way what hp are those rods rated to and how do those compare to h beams?
 
#18 ·
the biggest issue with a B20 is the fact that they are the same sleeves as any other B series engine, but with a 84mm bore instead of 81mm and it makes them weaker.

now when it comes down the stock sleeves, you can and will get away with 400+ Whp on the stock sleeves (I personally have pushed them to 500 and a lead footed driver with zero issues). the ACTUAL weak link in the LS motors are the rod BOLTS, so if you were to do a LS/Vtec for simple safety if you were staying with stock rods, get the ARP rod 8mm rod bolts ($45) and take your rods to a machine shop, have them pressed in, rods resized and rehoned.

the biggest freak LS motor i have seen was a friend of mines, 100% stock ls (the motor had never been opened as in not even head studs were used), it was pushing close to the range of 400whp for 7-8 years with a VERY hard life and when it finally blew it just cracked a ring land on T1's dyno for a retune after those 7-8 years of another tuners tune.

either way, 400whp on stock sleeves is more than do-able with complete safety. a simple Eagle/Wiseco set up will cost you around 650-800$ depending on where you get the parts from and if you know discount codes. the stock head will take 400+hp, but i would recommend atleast relapping the valves to get the best seal possible. bearings, oil pump, water pump, timing belt, timing belt tensioner, front and rear main seals, cam seals, head studs and distributor O-ring just to get it all sealed back up nicely
 
#20 ·
LOL @ stock B sleeves not being good for more than 300whp. Seen it done too many times with never a sleeve issue. Matter of fact the highest whp (little less than 500) I have ever seen on a B was sold my the previous owner and is still going as we speak. don't drink the H-T kool-aid.

IMO I wouldn't be afraid of 300whp on a stock LS bottom end. 300whp is plenty for the street and in my mind the extra cost doesn't justify the gain. Just make sure you get a good tune.
 
#22 ·
.... yeah okay big buddy. you take a peice of metal, shave off a significant amount and them see if it holds up to heat the same way.

this is coming from the guy who said that you need to sleeve a motor after 350hp and you are saying my facts are wrong? you do realize this is what i did for a living right?

if you overheat the cylinders the the sleeves and pistons will give out sooner (running a bad tune mainly), if you use shit oil and run the parts that have a lot of friction on them they will give out sooner (bearings, rods, other moving parts)

a good tune, good CORRECT weight oil and good gas will save a engine stock or built. the people who really push their engines arent on pump gas hardly anymore, most of the time now a days it is E85, and they also have a very good tune instead of some crackpot person attempt to tune it.

put my quote in your sig if it makes you feel smarter, either way thinner sleeves WILL be weaker than a thicker sleeve made from the same material. they are steel sleeves, think about your brakes, as you turn the rotors and take off material they do not disapate heat aswell as brand new rotors because it has LESS material.
 
#25 · (Edited)
.... yeah okay big buddy. you take a peice of metal, shave off a significant amount and them see if it holds up to heat the same way.

this is coming from the guy who said that you need to sleeve a motor after 350hp and you are saying my facts are wrong? you do realize this is what i did for a living right?
obviously its providing wrong information.. at least in this thread..

AE: Honda's Siamese-quadruplet cylinder liner casting



And Ive said it 3 times in this thread already and Ill say it again.. Some have boosted the B18B w/o any problems.. Others have had it blow up.

Now If it were me, I would build the engine to take the abuse its going to have over its new lifetime and not have to have worry in the back of my mind that one day its going to blow.

Most of the time its user error when kids try to spin these engines like Vtecs which can hold up to higher revs.


And the OP's Goals were over 400+ at the crank. Thats alot of power on an engine that wasnt designed for cylinder pressures or side loading. I just tend to give advise on the correct way to make things last considering the build and goals. Why throw down a few grand and then have the bottom end take a shit, then have to start all over again and do it right the 2nd time. Im not a fan of throwing good money after bad.


EDIT: On the same note, Ive seen stock B20 builds with 300+ WHP on stock internals and 450+ on forged internals with stock sleeves last for years.. Like ive said, some last and some dont. I agree, it depends on tuning, fuel and proper planning.
 
#28 ·
@ Mindless

I dont know what this guy plans to do with this car. But having 400+ horsepower means he pretty serious about his goals. Now anyone can take the simplest statement and blow it out of proportion like this thread has done.

I love how everyone jumps on me for trying to make the guys build more reliable. You guys make it seem like my suggestions are w/o merit. Now what else will be needed to support 400+hp? Clutch, mounts, maybe even axles.. Whos going to jump on me for suggest he change those.

So pardon me for trying to help the guy do his 1st build right the 1st time.

 
#32 ·
I'm not jumping on you, i'm disagreeing. If you're going to get that upset over some disagreement then maybe you should reconsider the internet.
 
#29 ·
Alright guys I appreciate all your responses and I didnt mean to create a controversy or anything like that. But let me first give you guys some more information on my situation and why I am deciding to go the route I am going, power goals etc (it is a long story). I had an eg with a bolt on d16z6. A lady hit it in april and totalled it. I bought a stock 96 ek coupe with a y7 motor and the plan was to swap everything motor/trans, suspension, seats, sound system, basically the whole car. I decided since I have the z6 (the one in my picture) sitting I might as well build it for boost and try to get in the 275-300 whp range. I had the motor on the stand and started tearing stuff down when I found this guy selling a b18b1 for cheap so I took a chance and got it. My initial plan was to do drop it in with arp head studs stage 2 clutch and do stock internals turbo and try to get in the 300 whp range. This route would have been better for me because I wouldnt be spending as much money on doing a complete overhaul on the z6 and could still reach my power goal. But now after seeing the condition of the b18 I dont feel comfortable boosting it and I am planning to do basic forged rebuild like snailslow mentioned, and now shooting for high 300whp on stock sleeves. I will be having the block bored .20 over. I will be keeping the stock head for now. I wanna focus on the bottom end and make sure it will handle the boost. I was considering just doing the headstuds and cleaning it up like midless suggested but with everything apart and out of the car I might as well spend the money now and do the internals. And yes Esotericimage i would say I am pretty serious about my power goal. Expect a build thread soon.
 
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