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Old 04-11-2011, 06:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default First "major" fab, advice wanted

I posted this up on H-T because they got a pretty solid fab section over there but i figured id post this up here too to see what you guys have to say!

okay so in a few weeks im going to tackle making my own manifold from scratch and going to need to fab of a new downpipe.

Heres my plan to make the manifold, still going to tweak it a bit but this is pretty much how i want it to look.


(just need to add in 90*'s instead of 45*'s on the ends there and i didnt feel like going back and altering the collector angles, but you get the idea. i just wanted to make this to figure out how many bends i wanted to order.)

Me and my dad run a waterjet cutting business so i make my own head flanges, and turbo flanges. right now i have a few laying around in 304ss but im consider doing it in mild and just ceramic coating it. it would deffinitly help with the cost of materials since im a broke college student lol.

Before you tell me not to try this with my p.o.s. lincoln AC tombstone, im kind of determined to do this all myself. I have welded a bit of stuff with this bad boy already, a few test pipes, and cracked ebay mani runners/ dp cracks, and can make it work as long as i dont blow a bunch of effin holes in it... hence the reason im just gonna use sch40 on this mani. I have access to a guy who tig welds at the shop next to me but its hard to catch him with time to do me favors and whatnot; so like i said, i would way prefer to say "yeah, i made that" even if it does look like shyt lol.

so i have a bunch of 1/8 316ss rod to use, but im thinking if i do it in mild it would be way easier to weld with some 6013 3/32". Oh and btw im going with a small runner design, i have about 4' of sch40 1-1/4" 304ss in my garage and still need to order up some bends for the manifold. ill probably just end up using my stainless for the collector and do the rest in mild?

As for the downpipe, as far as SMAW welding goes, should i go with 16ga mild steel bends from columbia-river? 14ga a better bet?

Let me know what you think, any input is appreciated. :scared:

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Old 04-11-2011, 06:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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will be too low for the oil to return properly from the looks of it
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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mini ram?? why not just buy the DIY kit.
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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from that point of view it looks really long but its actually a little shorter than the ramhorn i have on there now so i know it will be fine, ill post up another view



Im going to cut the bottom of the collector so the flange will be more parallel with the ground
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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mini ram?? why not just buy the DIY kit.
well yeah i considered that, but seeing as i can make my own flanges for free and everything i can actually just get what i need for way cheaper.... like $35 in bends and done =)
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I was goin to do the same. I have not built a collector before and dont wanna chance it. I am doing the DIY kit. I have a plasma as well as a stick and a mig. I am going to do it with my Miller stick welder with some SS rods.

I had priced cutting my own plates and getting my own elbows which I found for like 8 ea. It was goin to be less than half the price of the kit I just didnt feel comfortable making the collector. I dont have a band saw or a chop saw so my cut on it would have been with a angle grinder or the plasma(yes I have a plasma and no chop saw or band saw). What made me go with the kit was value vs cost and time. I would have spent 2 to 3 times as much value in time building a collector vs just buying the kit. That is the only thing that is for the most part complete.

Are you goin to run a int or ext wg? Everyone I have talked about the mini ram with all agreed that the wg placement suck majorly on the mini ram. I will be runnin a int wg to help avoid that prob.
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Looks like a nice design. Im very happy to see youre going sof sch 40 stainless. That thing will be bulletproof.
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WORPsol View Post
I was goin to do the same. I have not built a collector before and dont wanna chance it. I am doing the DIY kit. I have a plasma as well as a stick and a mig. I am going to do it with my Miller stick welder with some SS rods.

I had priced cutting my own plates and getting my own elbows which I found for like 8 ea. It was goin to be less than half the price of the kit I just didnt feel comfortable making the collector. I dont have a band saw or a chop saw so my cut on it would have been with a angle grinder or the plasma(yes I have a plasma and no chop saw or band saw). What made me go with the kit was value vs cost and time. I would have spent 2 to 3 times as much value in time building a collector vs just buying the kit. That is the only thing that is for the most part complete.

Are you goin to run a int or ext wg? Everyone I have talked about the mini ram with all agreed that the wg placement suck majorly on the mini ram. I will be runnin a int wg to help avoid that prob.
yeah man i hear where your coming from! the collector is the only thing im worried about as well, but i got my 4 foot length of sch40 literally for free so i mind as well give it a shot, thats one of the main reasons i wanted to model it in solidworks to begin with; so i know exactly what angles i need to cut it with. there was a good diy somewhere on HT on making collectors ill see if i can find it again.

As for cutting bends and the collector, im just using a miter saw with a fiber cutoff wheel, works great! cuts like butter!

I am going to run an ewg, gonna put it right in the collector, picked up a hole-saw off of mcmaster just for the job, (pn 41005A27)


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Looks like a nice design. Im very happy to see youre going sof sch 40 stainless. That thing will be bulletproof.
thanks man! i got tired of hearing everywhere that its overkill.... but seriously why not?! i want this shit bulletproof, rewelding my temp ssac manifold got realll effing old haha. thanks!


Also what would you guys recommend as far as the downpipe? that material is going to be significantly thinner, besides the collector, welding 16ga makes me kind of wary, should i go 14ga? stick with stainless? I'm thinking im gonna expand my pipes and slip fit for a little extra sealing so i dont have to worry about perfect penetration.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:23 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 04-12-2011, 04:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Don't just use 6013. In fact, for this, I would use 7018 exclusively as long as you V the bends and properly gap everything to get full penetration.

6013 is great structurally, but I would be more concerned about it in the context of very high heat.

For the record, I've only stick welded a few exhaust pieces, and most of them were cast iron. I don't hate on stick welding because, quite frankly, it is one of the simplest and most versatile processes ever invented, and, some of the most sexy beads I've ever seen, or even laid down myself, were done by stick.

If you can get a hold of some 5/32" rods, you can weld on the thin stuff, but it WILL be tough, even on stainless. (Maybe even more so.)
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:15 AM   #11 (permalink)
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You can go 14g for the down pipe but I dont see a prob with using 16g. Most are prob made from it. Just turn the heat down a bit and use a smaller rod. I have welded sheet metal with my Miller.

How are you goin to do the bends for the down pipe? Are you goin to get mandrel bends and cut it and weld it back together or just goin to pie cut everything and weld it all back together?

On my down pipe I will prob just pie cut everything and weld all back together.

That is a good and information link. If I had access to a band saw I would prob do it.
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:50 AM   #12 (permalink)
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If your putting all the effort in, why not make it equal length?
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Acid_Beaver View Post
Don't just use 6013. In fact, for this, I would use 7018 exclusively as long as you V the bends and properly gap everything to get full penetration.

6013 is great structurally, but I would be more concerned about it in the context of very high heat.

For the record, I've only stick welded a few exhaust pieces, and most of them were cast iron. I don't hate on stick welding because, quite frankly, it is one of the simplest and most versatile processes ever invented, and, some of the most sexy beads I've ever seen, or even laid down myself, were done by stick.

If you can get a hold of some 5/32" rods, you can weld on the thin stuff, but it WILL be tough, even on stainless. (Maybe even more so.)
oh yeah? i was wondering about that, i heard great things about 7018 for high heat, cycled applications... I just wasnt sure if it would be the best for stainless. good to know!! Mcmaster has everything, you would get 5/32 over 3/32?

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You can go 14g for the down pipe but I dont see a prob with using 16g. Most are prob made from it. Just turn the heat down a bit and use a smaller rod. I have welded sheet metal with my Miller.

How are you goin to do the bends for the down pipe? Are you goin to get mandrel bends and cut it and weld it back together or just goin to pie cut everything and weld it all back together?

On my down pipe I will prob just pie cut everything and weld all back together.

That is a good and information link. If I had access to a band saw I would prob do it.
yeah id planned on going 16ga just because of the lesser weight i just wasnt sure if the 14 would make it easier on welding, but if the difference is negligible ill stick with the 16. Im just gonna buy the mandrel bends, I never really thought it was worth the time and effort to do pie cuts unless your bends need a little tweaking or something; ill pay the extra couple bucks =)
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Old 04-12-2011, 06:09 AM   #14 (permalink)
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since your goin to be welding SS why not get a rod designed for high heat SS apps?

something along the lines of one of these rods.
ARCALOY 308/308H-16

Or

ARCALOY 308/308H-15
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Old 04-12-2011, 06:23 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sxysweed View Post
If your putting all the effort in, why not make it equal length?
well idk i never really saw any hard evidence that significant gains were made with equal length manifolds. i mean i know people do it for a reason! but for me, the added cost, difficultly, and minimal gains in the scheme of things, i figured its not worth it for me.
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since your goin to be welding SS why not get a rod designed for high heat SS apps?

something along the lines of one of these rods.
ARCALOY 308/308H-16

Or

ARCALOY 308/308H-15
hmm worth the extra cost? i understand that maybe they might be stronger on high temp stainless, but I know acid beaver KNOWS what hes talking about and im with him on the 7018 and high heat... but then again, 7018 isnt a stainless specific rod, maybe your on to something?

hell i need to stop acting like i know what im talking about when it comes to welding lol.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:10 AM   #16 (permalink)
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If you dont use a stainless rod then in a way you are defeating the purpose of using stainless to begin with. The anti rust/corrosion property's. If you use a non stainless rod then your welds will will rust and corrode. Maybe not all rods but a 6018 or a 7018 will. I have used both of these rods and see them rust fairly quickly. I am not sure or their properties once used on stainless either though. If your just goin to use a rod that will rust then whats the purpose of using stainless materials to begin with? I am not sure how clean a 6018 or 7018 burns either. I know stainless will contaminate while being welded if everything isn't clean and can cause the material to be weak.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:18 AM   #17 (permalink)
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yeah i see where your coming from, and that makes sense to me. maybe a 7018 root pass then cap with a 308 rod?? with schedule 40 and 3/32 rods should be able to make 2 passes right? ehhh need more help beave! haha

im not concerned with rust... if a 7018 will be stronger ill get it coated no problem, i know a guys who will jet-hot coat it for me; he owes me a favor anyways
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:23 AM   #18 (permalink)
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You said you aren't going to be using stainless, or is that just for the flange?

If you are using stainless Els, you should use the stainless rod. If it is 304, use 308. If the material is 308, weld with 321 rods.

I misunderstood, it seems.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:44 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Yeah I think just his flanges are mild steel. The pipe and elbows are SS. I am not sure if its just rust properties with using a 7018 rod. For some reason I am thinking it wont be as structurally sound uses a 7018 vs using a high heat SS rod.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:57 AM   #20 (permalink)
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im sorry my first post was unclear with that...

the materials i already have are a 4 foot length of 304ss 1-1/4" pipe
and 316 1/8" rod

i already have a head flange and t3 flange in 304ss; but since i have access to a waterjet i could easily recut them in mild

so my question was, should i go with mild elbows, and recut my flanges in mild, for ease of welding?

or should i just pick up stainless elbows, and some 3/32" rod ( McMaster-Carr )
and weld it all up in stainless?

also another concern is haveing an AC only machine limits my abilities somewhat, i dont know if that would be a big determining factor in my decision between stainless and mild. I know the 7018 has an AC specific rod.
my apologies, my posts were kind of unorganized lol

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