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Old 03-10-2011, 01:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 9.0:1 CR on vitaras ... say it a'int so

So I've decided that a built engine is the way to go ... more whp + better gas mileage = yes please.

Current set up:
D15b7/z6 mini me @ 8 psi (13c turbo)

New setup:
Currently undergoing R&D with my tuner.

Ok so there's a story behind this. I went to my tuner the other day about some concerns with what appeared to be a leaky injector (it is, but that's not really the important bit), and to get a ball park figure on a built bottom end. Yes ... I know it would be cheaper to do it myself, maybe it would even be easy ... but I want to make sure it's done right because I can't afford to fuck up (it's going in my DD/AutoX car). Anyway as I jump out of the car he tells me he's found "THE" combo.

Long story short it's a little different and he hasn't quite got all the pieces to fit properly yet ... but I'm going to be one of two people running this combo, at least in town.

z6 block
d17 crank and oil pump
forged d16 eagle rods (machined to fit properly on crank)
Vitara pistons w/ 0.020" milled off (the sit flush with the deck)

He's still working out what crank pulley to use.

This combo will yield ~9.0:1 CR @ 75mm and ~9.2:1 CR @ 75.5 mm.
I'm going to see about doing a 75.5 build to take advantage of the extra displacement (1690cc). That should make up for the fact that I don't get my 10:1 bottom end that I wanted.

I can haz 300+whp pleez.
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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search for Danz's build. sounds like your "copying" it... though his is a copy of another persons.... who copied another persons... and so forth.



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Old 03-10-2011, 01:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Difference is Danz isn't using the modded rods/vitara bottom end.

How much power are you going for?
I've been considering a very similar set-up, but I've been wondering if the added cost is worth the displacement.
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Difference is Danz isn't using the modded rods/vitara bottom end.


I'm not using modded rods either. And I'm sure it has been done before, I've just never seen it. Longer stroke + shorter piston = no need for modded rods (just a shave and a haircut for the pistons to 0 deck them).

How much power are you going for?
I've been considering a very similar set-up, but I've been wondering if the added cost is worth the displacement.

I'm looking to hit 300+ whp ... which will pretty much max out the turbo I've got. It's actually cheaper to do it this way than a forged d16 bottom (which was the original plan, until this was mentioned). I should be able to make close to 200 wtq (this is me talking out my ass), I'll be running more boost, and have an extra 200cc of displacement (and way longer stroke).
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Difference is Danz isn't using the modded rods/vitara bottom end.


I'm not using modded rods either. And I'm sure it has been done before, I've just never seen it.

How much power are you going for?
I've been considering a very similar set-up, but I've been wondering if the added cost is worth the displacement.

I'm looking to hit 300+ whp ... which will pretty much max out the turbo I've got. It's actually cheaper to do it this way than a forged d16 bottom (which was the original plan, until this was mentioned). I should be able to make close to 200 wtq (this is me talking out my ass), I'll be running more boost, and have an extra 200cc of displacement (and way longer stroke).
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sxysweed View Post
Difference is Danz isn't using the modded rods/vitara bottom end.


I'm sure it has been done before, I've just never seen it.

How much power are you going for?
I've been considering a very similar set-up, but I've been wondering if the added cost is worth the displacement.

I'm looking to hit 300+ whp ... which will pretty much max out the turbo I've got. It's actually cheaper to do it this way than a forged d16 bottom (which was the original plan, until this was mentioned). I should be able to make close to 200 wtq (this is me talking out my ass), I'll be running more boost, and have an extra 200cc of displacement (and way longer stroke).
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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i actually have a WTB up for some cheap rods to do the same thing. except id just use D17 weisco pistons instead of making the lands on the vitara any thinner.




for what its worth lowballs CR was about 9:1 with a Y8 head on extended I beams. its not hard to do with vitaras


and you might want to think hard about how many RPM this motor will see. the RS ratio is getting pretty terrible.


edit: use the d17 crank pulley or a B series crank pulley.
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
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i actually have a WTB up for some cheap rods to do the same thing. except id just use D17 weisco pistons instead of making the lands on the vitara any thinner.




for what its worth lowballs CR was about 9:1 with a Y8 head on extended I beams. its not hard to do with vitaras


and you might want to think hard about how many RPM this motor will see. the RS ratio is getting pretty terrible.


edit: use the d17 crank pulley or a B series crank pulley.
Thanks for the info. I'm trying to keep AC/PS will the d17 crank pulley work for that.

He showed me the pistons he was milling and it only take a squidge off the "lobes" (for lack of a better word) around the dish (the bits that stick up to create the dish).

It's an autoX/DD and I'm not going for an extreme build ... I have to keep it at least somewhat streetable. The RPMs will probably stay fairly low (7200 or maybe a little higher). If I push them too high the turbo won't be able to keep up and I'm not sure that the cam will make power much past 7800 or so.
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Sounds like a good setup for your application. Let the guy do his thing.
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I like the idea. The extra displacement should make up for the fact that I'm losing some compression. I love my current 10:1 motor, just looking for something a bit stronger.
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:39 AM   #11 (permalink)
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the d17 crank pulley wont work if u want to keep accessories, but you can look into the B series crank pulleys as the snout on the D17 is the same size as the B series.
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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the d17 crank pulley wont work if u want to keep accessories, but you can look into the B series crank pulleys as the snout on the D17 is the same size as the B series.
That was the plan. I think he was looking to use a B16A2 pulley, at least for mine. The other one is going in a car without all those bells and whistles.
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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man everyone has copied everyone there isnt much innovation with the d-series the only difference is thanks to danz and others before him broke the ice. so everyone else can come out from being scared to attempt this its not like this such thing is something new its been done long before some of the current people running this combo.


good luck with the build OP should be awesome
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Old 03-11-2011, 02:32 PM   #14 (permalink)
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true greasemonkey...

funny thing is, i was watching the ripper vids i posted up in my d17 thread, and that sucker looks like its just about hitting 8k rpm... thats pretty sketchy for the stock rods! glad i got those ARP rod bolts right about now!! lol

im surprised it hasnt spit out a rod yet..
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Old 03-12-2011, 02:02 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I suppose the "new" thing about it, for me at least, isn't using the d17 crank (I know that's been done to death). It's the d17 w/vitara combo, maybe I haven't been paying attention but this is the first time I've seen it. It's the first time I've really considered a vitara build just because, for my application, the CR was generally too low for my taste. Not saying that I'm breaking any new ground (I know I'm not that cool) but it's just something a little different from what I've seen around (again maybe I just haven't been paying attention).
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Old 03-12-2011, 02:04 AM   #16 (permalink)
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What's your rod/stroke ratio with this set up? The extra 200cc may not be worth the trade off. It may be worth waiting for the new d15 vitara rods.
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Old 03-12-2011, 02:07 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I suppose the "new" thing about it, for me at least, isn't using the d17 crank (I know that's been done to death). It's the d17 w/vitara combo, maybe I haven't been paying attention but this is the first time I've seen it. It's the first time I've really considered a vitara build just because, for my application, the CR was generally too low for my taste. Not saying that I'm breaking any new ground (I know I'm not that cool) but it's just something a little different from what I've seen around (again maybe I just haven't been paying attention).
im not putting down your build bro my comments were directed to some other comment. i was talking about a stroker build in general.
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:48 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 90civichillclimber View Post
What's your rod/stroke ratio with this set up? The extra 200cc may not be worth the trade off. It may be worth waiting for the new d15 vitara rods.

1.45 same as a stock d17.

But seriously I'm not looking to rev that high. As I said before the turbo doesn't make a ton off power up top; it actually kinda starts to choke out around 7K. It wouldn't be worth it to me to wait for the d15 rods, because if I was going to build the d15 I wouldn't be using vitaras ... I would lose too much compression for my taste. Which would make me have to run more boost to get the same power and sacrifice spool time (I think). I just need a big juicy torque curve for AutoX which I think this build will give me.

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im not putting down your build bro my comments were directed to some other comment. i was talking about a stroker build in general.
I didn't think you were putting my build down. It was just a general clarifying statement. I noticed the "build should be awesome" comment at the end of that post.
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Old 03-12-2011, 07:29 AM   #19 (permalink)
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D16 Eagle Rods = shave each side of the BE 1.5mm so it fits the D17 crank
Vitara Pistons = Shave 0.020" off the top (or they'll stick out of the block).

I figure that shaving a -15cc piston 0.020" reduces the dish to around -13cc, helping to bump compression slightly.

I've been considering the build (I have similar goals), and I wouldn't be worried about the rods. Forged rods are overkill in your average D16 build (quite a few have done 9krpm and 400whp+). But people have cracked/damaged the Vitara pistons, and the increased side loads on the pistons would start to worry me a little (if revving high).
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Old 03-12-2011, 07:42 AM   #20 (permalink)
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0.020" is on 0.5 mm, I have my doubts that it reduces the dish that much. And the bottom of the dish would still be in the same position, so a CR calculator should give the proper numbers. For me ~9.3:1.

Whatever the case it's up over 9:1 which, for me, is happy land. I'll let you know how it turns out. I need low end torque more than anything for my particular application so hopefully this will get me there.
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