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Old 03-09-2011, 08:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default What turbo would you use??? Options...

First I want to say that I love this forum and of the forums I frequent it is my favorite when it comes to turbo related info and tech. Funny thing is I don't even own a Honda. I own a 1986 Corolla GTS which I have turbo'd and am now at the point of debating upgrading and would like your opinions. Here goes:

My setup is:

4AGE bigport with port and Polish
Crower Stage 2 FI cams (270 duration and 8.74mm of lift) with adjustable cam gears
440cc Injectors
GT2560 turbo
HKS top mount
2.5" intercooler and exhaust
8.6:1 CR with a 4AGZE shortblock (known tough)
MegaSquirt ECU
LC-1 Wideband
DSM 1st Gen bov (set to bypass)

I am sure I am missing stuff but that is the main points. The turbos on this motor react a lot like the same turbo on a D16 except it seems like the D16 can spool them a bit quicker but I think it is more dependent on CR then the motor. The GT2560 is great but since it has a huge hot side .86 AR it spools slow. I am probably going to sell it to the SR20 crowd and move to something else. Here is what I have debated:

GT2560R with .48
TD05H small 16G with 6cm hot side
TD05H Evo X 16G with 6cm hot side
GT2871R
GT2860R
TD04HL 19T

I am going to be driving this car a lot so spool would be nice. I would like 10psi by atleast 4500rpm's and boost to start by 3500rpm (2800 would be even better)and want to make 250whp with the room to make 350whp. I am thinking the GT2871R or the 16G Evo X will be the best options for this endeavor. I am worried I will not get enough spool with these for a daily.

I am seriously debating using a 7AFE block with a set of forged rods and pistons. This is equivalent to swapping a B16A head on B18B shortblock. It would increase my displacement to 1.85 liters over 1.6 liters and drastically increase my stroke from 77m to 85.5mm. It should not effect my 8K redline to much though I should make peak hp sooner.

Opinions? You can throw in other turbo options but please mention one of these that you feel would be best.

Here is a dyno that I would like to duplicate:



Thanks
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Last edited by mhamrick; 03-10-2011 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Can't seem to view the pic. Download and post it here, or find it linked off the club website.

I disco potato will definitely meet the spool goals. A 2871 will probably meet your spool goals, but I am not familiar with the engine enough to say that the engine will spool that turbo before you want. The 2871 will not peter out towards your redline. The 2860 probably will fall off some, but, I think, will be suited to your goals better.
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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what kind of turbo mani you running that also effects spool time.. pics will help=)

question what tranny you using bc i have a sr5 i wanna put a swap in
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
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from my limited time with turbo toyotas, both versions of the US celica all trac, i *think* that motor acted like a DSM engine to turbo mods, just obviously less displacement.

i would probably pick a mitsu turbo, just not the ones you listed. for some odd reason a big 16g or bastard 20g keep popping in my head. maybe i saw an all trac with one(16g)? idk.. whatever. lol.

iirc, one of the big names in turbo toyota all tracs use to use gt28xx turbos with very nice results. the names escape me this early in the AM though.

side note: "d"uck insomnia....



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Old 03-10-2011, 05:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
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gt2860RS or t28
you might have issues pushing the t28 to 350 though.
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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4age is similar to a B16 81mm bore and 77mm stroke.

GZE shortblock is definately tough. i think i heard they can hancle around 500hp on stock internals. they come with beefy rods i belive the GZE block also has oil squirters for the underside of the pistons, and that the pistons are forged and has ceramic coated dish.

before i got my rex i was putting togethr an MR2 but i sold it.


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Old 03-10-2011, 09:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2drz6 View Post
what kind of turbo mani you running that also effects spool time.. pics will help=)

question what tranny you using bc i have a sr5 i wanna put a swap in
Right now the tranny is the limiting factor as they really will not hold up to a lot of boost. A real HP level varies on what the car will be used for. If you drift it then 150whp will most likely kill it. If you are dragging it then about the same. If you drive it daily and drive it sensibly then 250whp is possible. I am going to swap in a W5x something in. They will handle in excess of 600whp.

I am using a top mount HKS. However to use it you HAVE to make an adapter to rotate the housing about 45 degrees or it will hit the brake booster. You can buy a cheap eBay manifold and do the same with it. CX racing sells one that actually works.

Pictures may be a bit. The car is getting upholstery and paint done. I may not have it back till the first of May.



No one picked up on the fact that I am running a GT2560 and not a GT2560R. I will explain. My GT2560 is a hybrid of sorts. I am using a SR20 hotside and turbine. It has a T28 center housing. The cold side has T3 60 trim cover. I did upgrade to 360 thrust bearing as well. It is a hybrid GT2560 just without the ball bearings. It spools a little slow over the .86 hot side though and I woud stick with it if I can find smaller hotside that works with it. I may machine a DSM T25 hotside to work instead as it has nice smaller AR that will really help my spool.

My GT2560 starts spool at 4200 but it has 10 psi by 5K and the redline is shortly after. I have debated leaving it as is though but bump my CR up instead. It does good just driving around town on gas but it is dog. I am thinking a CR around 9.5:1 may solve some of the spool issue and also give me an excellent off boost characteristics.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:49 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uptownsamcv View Post
4age is similar to a B16 81mm bore and 77mm stroke.

GZE shortblock is definately tough. i think i heard they can hancle around 500hp on stock internals. they come with beefy rods i belive the GZE block also has oil squirters for the underside of the pistons, and that the pistons are forged and has ceramic coated dish.

before i got my rex i was putting togethr an MR2 but i sold it.



The USDM 4AGZE did not have oil squirters nor did any MR2 4AGZE have them. They also have semi forged pistons and ceramic coated tops. They are very tough blocks and can handle a lot. I have seen a dyno on a stock shortblock that made 600+ whp at 8800 RPM's with a Ching Chong T70.

The major difference between the B16 and 4AGE is head and more specifically the valves.

I will say this though. Toyota made a 240hp 4AGE before Honda had the first B16 on the road. In stock form though the B16 really whips the 4AGE a$$. Though the BT 20V is a fairly close to a B16.

Also here is some better 4AGE rod pictures. They give you a better idea of their actual size.



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The difference between a Toyota owner and a Honda owner is the Toyota owners talk about all the shit they are going to do but never do it. Honda owners blow a couple blocks up then talk about what they did and how they done it.

Moving from Chevy to Honda is like going from first base with your girl to hitting a Grand Slam with her and her friends. Everything you want is readily availible and very easy to acquire.

Last edited by mhamrick; 03-10-2011 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:37 AM   #9 (permalink)
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If youre wanting to make 350, Id go with the 2871, its a great turbo for that power range. Any more power and Id want to go T3 flanged (Not a big fan of the 2876)
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:38 AM   #10 (permalink)
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a stock gze engine will handle 350hp with no problems btw......

thanks man i take it yours already came efi?
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:08 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Yeah I traded my nicely modified MKI MR2 for a real GTS but it was ragged badly. The person should be shot for what he done t it. I have seen ryced out Honda's that had nothing on my poor car.

It is worth starting with the GTS though. The tranny fits, it has better rear end with stronger axles, some with a lsd (this confused me at first and I tried licking it. It did nothing unfortunately), the wiring, the motor, etc, etc. It is just so much easier to start with the GTS. Unless you have already dropped mad coin on it I would sell it for what it is worth and try tracking down a GTS. Either that or find a busted GTS and swap everything over.

The GZE shortblocks are redonkulous. I have seen them blow up though.
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