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Old 03-07-2011, 10:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default JRSC Bypass valve broken...damage to blower?

So after having my Eaton M45 rebuilt by Stiegemeier

https://www.d-series.org/forums/force...ting-pics.html

I've put only maybe 30 miles and about 2 hours of runtime (idling in my driveway to try to burn old gas from the tank) on the rebuilt blower. I found out yesterday that my bypass valve actuator has been broken the entire time so the bypass valve has remained closed at idle and off-boost situations.

At idle, I see 20 in Hg of vacuum on my boost gauge and the boost bleeds off right after I left off the gas during full throttle runs

My question is, do you think this would have caused damage to the blower itself? I had brand new rear and rotor plate bearings installed during the rebuild. Your opinions are appreciated
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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well all the bypass does is allow the motor to idol. feed more air to the motor. bypass the rotors. if the rotor's are turning you wont have much of a problem. if the rotors stop turning ie belt snaps and soon as the vacume drops in the manifold the motor starves of air and boggs.

a broken or not working bypass wont cause any damage to the SC. anless bits are breaking off... lol
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Damage to gas mileage, yes. Besides that, no.

Its still draw through throttle so its not like the blower is getting hot while running like that.
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:14 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Let me know what you end up doing for a replacement. I need the aluminum/metal part for my car.
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preludepatrick View Post
So after having my Eaton M45 rebuilt by Stiegemeier

https://www.d-series.org/forums/force...ting-pics.html

I've put only maybe 30 miles and about 2 hours of runtime (idling in my driveway to try to burn old gas from the tank) on the rebuilt blower. I found out yesterday that my bypass valve actuator has been broken the entire time so the bypass valve has remained closed at idle and off-boost situations.

At idle, I see 20 in Hg of vacuum on my boost gauge and the boost bleeds off right after I left off the gas during full throttle runs

My question is, do you think this would have caused damage to the blower itself? I had brand new rear and rotor plate bearings installed during the rebuild. Your opinions are appreciated
As far as I know, the bypass was only created to improve fuel mileage. Older roots blowers never had them and they're fine. I think your ok but perhaps you should replace it for the gas mileage.

What part do you need Jaker?
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks for your input guys, definitely gives me a little piece of mind.

The Moss Motors part number for the replacement bypass valve actuator is 999-050.

The entire bypass valve assembly is also available but it's around $240. Part number 051-098

I also spoke to Stiegemeier and they don't think it would have caused damage either so I feel a little better about things now.

Thanks!
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:44 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I have installed quite a few GM blowers. None ever had a bypass. None ever suffered damage as a result.

You will be fine with or without the bypass operating, so long as no FOD comes from it.

You need take into consideration your own manner and degree of use to weigh up the cost of repairing the bypass vs the small gains in fuel efficiency by it being operational.

If it where left non operational, I would be tempted to seal the butterfly with silicon rubber to totally seal it so as to avoid any possibility of even a small boost leak, however if it where mine I would probably fix it as I am pedantic about things working perfectly.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Stiegemeier is the bomb. Fantastic customer service.

Edit... Pedantic with a streak of larrikin perhaps?
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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A great wide slice of hooligan I would have said.

I am also a member at http://hre.com/forums/
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Old 03-07-2011, 02:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Stiegemeier has great service and quick quick turnaround time. The port work was fantastic as well. My only complaint is that they refinished the rotors without me requesting it which caused me to lose a lb of boost.

I guess there are two schools of though on this...

One could say that refinishing the rotors allows greater clearance between the rotors and case which leads to less efficient performance of the blower...which is certainly true.

On the other hand, one could also say that greater clearance between the rotors/case means that you can spin the blower much faster without the risk of rotor/case rub.

Since I'm planning on spinning mine to 16,500 RPM and using water/alcohol injection, I'd like to think this will benefit me and lengthen the life of the blower. I'm hoping that the water mixture will tighten up the clearances a little bit as well and make the flow losses less noticeable.
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Old 03-07-2011, 03:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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And don't even mention rotor coatings from Wade Embree's 'The High Speed Labs' to me...

I gave them a call thinking I would send in my freshly rebuilt blower, have it disassembled, coated, and be done for maybe $150-$200. Well...turns out that Wade and his company developed a proprietary and patented way of re-installing the rotors into the rotor plate bearings and they wanted to charge me $300 to re-replace my brand new rotor plate bearings plus another $137 for the coating. They say that Stieg's way of re-installing the rotors is wrong and that they couldn't remove the rotors again without completely breaking the bearings (which is simply not true)

Here's what I'm talking about (Thanks Swich for letting me use the pics!)





You'll see that the rotors actually press-fit into the needle bearings in the rotor plate. Stieg simply presses the rotors out, re-installs them with loctite and peens the end of the aluminum shaft so that it won't slide out.

Wade at 'The High Speed Lab' had a proprietary and patented process where he machines the rotor shaft where it slides through the rotor plate bearings and inserts some type of retaining clip/screw/shaft thigamajig. Problem is that he wants to re-charge me to replace those bearings...which I'm simply not going to pay for.

Sorry for the rant. Just want people to know that if you had your rotor plate bearings replaced by stieg, or if you've never had them replaced at all, The High Speed Lab is going to make you replace them which means roughly $450 for a $137 rotor coating.
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Old 03-07-2011, 03:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Housing to rotor and rotor to rotor clearance is like piston to bore clearance.

You need it loose enough to not cause things to get to tight or scuff up or seize, however you need it as tight enough for a perfect seal. It is a compromise and the harder you lean on it the more clearance you need to compensate for expansion and flex and the more blow by you get.

The water injection will help seal it up.
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Old 03-07-2011, 03:30 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I would be really pissed at the coating company.

And patented process of cutting a circlip grove, give me a break. This JRSC thing seems to have more than it's share of smoke and mirror gurus.

Press fit or circlip are both valid methods just like with gudgeon (wrist) pins.

Circlips are better if you anticipate regular disassemble.

You should have dissasembled it yourself and sent the rotors in ready for coating.
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
What part do you need Jaker?
The threaded shaft that the butterfly is attached to is chewed up/stripped on my bypass valve. Right now the bellcrank is retained with a cotterpin through a hole I drilled in the shaft. It's loosey goosey, but it still works. I want to make it whole again. You got spares?
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preludepatrick View Post
Stiegemeier has great service and quick quick turnaround time. The port work was fantastic as well. My only complaint is that they refinished the rotors without me requesting it which caused me to lose a lb of boost.

I guess there are two schools of though on this...

One could say that refinishing the rotors allows greater clearance between the rotors and case which leads to less efficient performance of the blower...which is certainly true.

On the other hand, one could also say that greater clearance between the rotors/case means that you can spin the blower much faster without the risk of rotor/case rub.

Since I'm planning on spinning mine to 16,500 RPM and using water/alcohol injection, I'd like to think this will benefit me and lengthen the life of the blower. I'm hoping that the water mixture will tighten up the clearances a little bit as well and make the flow losses less noticeable.
Stiegemeier did the same thing on mine but I gained about a pound of boost. Your experience may differ. I also run W/M so maybe that accounts for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaker View Post
The threaded shaft that the butterfly is attached to is chewed up/stripped on my bypass valve. Right now the bellcrank is retained with a cotterpin through a hole I drilled in the shaft. It's loosey goosey, but it still works. I want to make it whole again. You got spares?
I got a WHOLE wack of extra parts when I bought my JRSC, some of which included my upgraded crank pulley. I will dig through it and see if I have it.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patprimmer View Post
I would be really pissed at the coating company.

And patented process of cutting a circlip grove, give me a break. This JRSC thing seems to have more than it's share of smoke and mirror gurus.

Press fit or circlip are both valid methods just like with gudgeon (wrist) pins.

Circlips are better if you anticipate regular disassemble.

You should have dissasembled it yourself and sent the rotors in ready for coating.
I'd be more pissed if I sent it in thinking I was going to be $150 and then they spring a $450 bill on me. At least this way I can tell them to go f themselves and choose not to use their services. It is frustrating though. I was really counting on that to fix the clearance issues. Guess I'm going to have to wait and hope that the water injection and 16,500 RPM makes a difference.

Already thought about dissembling it on my own and sending them the rotor plate and rotors. They said they needed the entire blower shipped for some reason. Not sure if it's because they wanted to measure rotor-to-case clearances or if it's because they simply wanted to make more money off me by charging for new bearing and they're stupid ass patented process.

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Old 03-07-2011, 09:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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you dont want to coat your rotors. if you running water/meth you just going to eat through the coating. better to just leave it and see how it goes. 1 pound is nothing to worry about loosing when you spinning at 16500. how many pounds are you planning on any way?
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:42 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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you dont want to coat your rotors. if you running water/meth you just going to eat through the coating. better to just leave it and see how it goes. 1 pound is nothing to worry about loosing when you spinning at 16500. how many pounds are you planning on any way?
TLML and TLMB coating should not be affected by water/alcohol injection. The old coating that Eaton used to put on the rotors to help self-clearance the rotors was a different composition (teflon i believe?) and was susceptible to flaking/deteriorating when methanol was present.

Either way, I'm not coating so I doesn't matter much to me

Shooting for 10-12 lbs but we'll see..
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:47 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Are the rotors aluminium. If so you can build it up a little with hard anodising, depending on the alloy.

Also you can build up the housing with hard anodise. It also is much more resistant to wear and corrosion if hard anodized. Works a treat on worn aluminium oil pumps.
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:01 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Jaker

Why do you need a bypass on a race car, or do you use it as a DD as well.
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I will always feed an inquisitive mind, prod a lazy noob and blast a disrespectful bum.

Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

Ignorance may be cured, stupid is forever.

my CRX thread

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my intro

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