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Old 08-12-2009, 10:42 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Question on octane.

Here is a question on fuel for some of you who are fuel heads.

Some - or a lot of gas stations that sell diesel fuel then only have room for two fuels. They buy 83 octane and 91 octane (cali).

Then when people buy the 87, they blend the two and make 87.
Its really not the same but, i know for a fact that a LOT of fuel stations do this because they needed to make room to sell diesel and didnt want to pay for new tanks to be installed.

my question is if lets say I buy a 99 octane fuel
Put a gallon in my tank, and top if off with 91 octane so I will have about 1 gallon 99 and 9 gallons 91 my octane be around 93?

Or am i thinking about this wrong?
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:03 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by smurf View Post
Here is a question on fuel for some of you who are fuel heads.

Some - or a lot of gas stations that sell diesel fuel then only have room for two fuels. They buy 83 octane and 91 octane (cali).

Then when people buy the 87, they blend the two and make 87.
Its really not the same but, i know for a fact that a LOT of fuel stations do this because they needed to make room to sell diesel and didnt want to pay for new tanks to be installed.

my question is if lets say I buy a 99 octane fuel
Put a gallon in my tank, and top if off with 91 octane so I will have about 1 gallon 99 and 9 gallons 91 my octane be around 93?

Or am i thinking about this wrong?

Not the best when it comes down to fuel but from some experience, you're thinking about it somewhat in the right manner.

The overall Octane level is going to be higher then 91, how much I couldn't be sure. I know that ur diluting the overall Octane content by going more parts low octane over the 99 you put in..but if u half and half'd it i'd say u'd be spot on for a 95 or higher..

Octanes don't work under valency protocol..99 isn't gonna sit at the bottom while 91 hovers ontop...

It's going to mix and the concentration levels are going to switch. All in all try not to mix anything, it's best to just go with 1 grade be it high or low level and leave it at that.

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Old 08-12-2009, 11:08 AM   #3 (permalink)
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yea i understand that.

It was more of a question because gas stations blend their low octane with their high octane fuels at the pump, why cant we?
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:09 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I agree and would advise 100% like monstervtec. You want a higher oct. Try getting atleast decent mixture. I try to fill up with about 5 gallons of 109 when there is only a gallon or two in my tank for Friday and Saturday night...
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:10 AM   #5 (permalink)
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there is a race fuel pump a few miles from my house, not sure on octane but i think it $5.97 a gallon.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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yea i understand that.

It was more of a question because gas stations blend their low octane with their high octane fuels at the pump, why cant we?


Shit, we can. We're told as consumers, not to mix gas because of the unsureness of whether the cars will run at max efficiency doing it, and since we'd be crudely mixing gas (Without properly measuring ect, ect) I'd figure they don't want the liability to be placed on them at the end of the day..because god forbid something DOES go wrong, first thing we'd blame is the gas and the station it came from.

I find that reasoning to be BS when I hear a Station Owner tell me that though, No gas station commercially sells anything higher then 93 Octane anyway, so there isn't an at the pump mixture you could come up with that's going to put you over that, and so the risk of damaging your vehicle is minimal from the rip (only running ridiculously high Octane levels when ur car isn't tuned to do so can effectively damage ur car). I used to have to head to the airport or near it for anything north of 97, I never EVER toyed with octane boosters hell for the most part I don't believe they work.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by smurf View Post
there is a race fuel pump a few miles from my house, not sure on octane but i think it $5.97 a gallon.
must be milk..lol cheapest here is $9 gal for 110
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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100 ocatne over here is 7.55 i think
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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i used to mix toulene from the hobby store, i think it was 114 octane (per gallon) for like 6 bucks, but it's like alchohol and HAS to be mixed with regular gasoline, i used to have the mixture ratios written on a notepad along with the formula, gave me something like ~97 octane when mixed with 87... it was like 1 gallon of this stuff for 9 gallons of 87 octane, but i always did half a gallon for 6 gallons of 87 to make it more like ~94... every other fuel up... never noticed anything wrong with my fuel system and i did this for about a year... my stock EW got great gas mileage afterwards..
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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toluene and xylene... good shit.

throw a little iso in there as a blending agent and you got yourself some DIY race gas!
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
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there is no magic formula, just guesses (there was a long thread about this somewhere. either here or H-T). the gas in a holding tank (at the station, in the tanker, holding at the refinery) degrades as once its produced. in order to know for sure what your running, it needs to come from as close to a controlled source as possible (i.e. the pump or from the can). once you start mixing, your end octane will be unknown.



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Old 08-12-2009, 05:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
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yeah my city didn't offer anything better than 91 octane, and i wanted to make a higher octane myself, so like any good newb who doesn't want to look like a newb asking stupid questions (no offense OP) i searched and searched and read everything i could on it, then whatever wasn't answered i asked specifically, of course being what effects might this take on a stock system... which nobody really knew anyway because how many mad scientists are willing to sacrifice their project for a couple extra digits in octane...
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Old 08-13-2009, 12:51 AM   #13 (permalink)
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So ..........

In the end here lets start all over again with this mix idea.

I got to the gas station with my truck and buy ... lets just say, 100 gallons of 91 oct.
then I go and buy 10 gallons of toluene, or 110 octane race fuel.

Mix it / blend it so now i have 110 gallons of fuel.
ahh wtf really ...

I swear E85 must be easier then all this math shit.
F it.
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Hmmm second thought.

What about buying 100ll fuel?
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:02 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf View Post
So ..........

In the end here lets start all over again with this mix idea.

I got to the gas station with my truck and buy ... lets just say, 100 gallons of 91 oct.
then I go and buy 10 gallons of toluene, or 110 octane race fuel.

Mix it / blend it so now i have 110 gallons of fuel.
ahh wtf really ...

I swear E85 must be easier then all this math shit.
F it.
Since E85 is allowed to vary from between E70 and E86, it is just as bad.

86 Octane is the lowest produced......and that is Sunoco. Sunoco is FAMOUS for the blending. 2 gas tanks, 86 and 94 octane, anything else is a mix.
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:10 AM   #16 (permalink)
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sunco is not out here ....
So i am still not real sure what to do for fuel then ...

Truck in 55 gallon drums of race fuel?
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:23 AM   #17 (permalink)
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interested in toluene read this

Toluene - Octane Booster FAQ


try this calculator

http://www.bazellracefuels.com/Calcs/OC1.htm

and this one

http://www.serioussolutions.com/evo/octcalc.htm
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:30 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf View Post
sunco is not out here ....
So i am still not real sure what to do for fuel then ...

Truck in 55 gallon drums of race fuel?
What do you want? Likely VP makes it.
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:33 AM   #19 (permalink)
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where in so cal are you at
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:33 AM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf View Post
So ..........

In the end here lets start all over again with this mix idea.

I got to the gas station with my truck and buy ... lets just say, 100 gallons of 91 oct.
then I go and buy 10 gallons of toluene, or 110 octane race fuel.

Mix it / blend it so now i have 110 gallons of fuel.
ahh wtf really ...

I swear E85 must be easier then all this math shit.
F it.

If you did go and cop 100 Gallons of 91 and 10 gallons 110, if you went on a tank by tank basis you could possibly eek out high grade 96+ per fill up, rather then mixing the entirety of what you have and ultimately winding up with a lesser grade mix across the board.

As far as E85 goes, i've seen a few cars converted over for it's usage and as far as yeilds go, they match or get close to the gains used when using Race Fuel w/no Tune (Or at least it felt like it..). E85 as a fuel in itself is a pretty cheap and effective conversion to make as usually they produce anywhere north of 5-12 horses MORE then the same motor set up running unleaded (no Tune). Besides you really can't beat the Price Per Gallon in relation to Race Fuel or Standard Unleaded Fuel.
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