Duty cycle is low, car rich, minimal fuel corrections on 240cc? - D-series.org

Go Back   D-series.org Motor Mayhem & Suspension Satisfaction Forced Induction

D-Series.org is the premier Honda All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-04-2009, 09:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 16
Rep Power: 0 plasticknives is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default Duty cycle is low, car rich, minimal fuel corrections on 240cc?

This makes no sense to me.

240's should only be used for low boost applications due to them maxxing out their duty cycle relatively quickly correct?

Well I put 240s into my d16y7 with a 15g turbo, scaled them back through my emanage, and at 5200rpm, 96% throttle, the total duty cycle is only 81% with only a 10% increase in the fuel map. The car still runs pig rich around there (10 a/f).

Any ideas why this is? Shouldn't I have to add fuel more than this since there is no fuel table for boost in the stock ecu?

I have the boost clamp set at 5.00v with no CEL if thats of any value.
plasticknives is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-04-2009, 09:11 AM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 45
Rep Power: 0 N54E90XI is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

You're not flowing much air at only 5200rpm. 81% duty cycles would seem normal depending on the manifold pressure you achieved. Stretch your car out to redline and I'm sure you'll see your duty cycles go up.
N54E90XI is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-04-2009, 10:25 AM   #3 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 16
Rep Power: 0 plasticknives is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Ok how about this.

The only thing the emanage is doing is boost cut at 3.00v and injectors scaled from 180 to 240 (fuel is zeroed out)

6000rpm, 100% throttle, 73% duty cycle, 11.5-12 a/f

Shouldn't the car run lean as hell with no fuel map?
plasticknives is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-04-2009, 10:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
Rapa's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Posts: 198
Rep Power: 11 Rapa will become famous soon enoughRapa will become famous soon enoughRapa will become famous soon enough
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via MSN to Rapa
Default

keep in mind that B16 uses 240cc to.. and can achieve more +200hp in the engine with they...
__________________
EH3 D16Z6 - 1995 Honda Civic Si 1.6 16v SOHC VTEC - TD04H-15G 200whp @ 7.3psi
Rapa is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-04-2009, 10:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 16
Rep Power: 0 plasticknives is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapa View Post
keep in mind that B16 uses 240cc to.. and can achieve more +200hp in the engine with they...
But the pretuned map that comes with the kit for a Z6 has really high values (50%+) in it. I can't imagine the open loop map for the y7 being THAT different than the z6. Especially when the 240s are scaled.
plasticknives is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-04-2009, 10:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
Speedjunky01's Avatar
 
iTrader: (40)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NH
Posts: 5,015
Rep Power: 18 Speedjunky01 is a Top Aussie
Speedjunky01 is a Top AussieSpeedjunky01 is a Top AussieSpeedjunky01 is a Top AussieSpeedjunky01 is a Top AussieSpeedjunky01 is a Top AussieSpeedjunky01 is a Top AussieSpeedjunky01 is a Top AussieSpeedjunky01 is a Top AussieSpeedjunky01 is a Top AussieSpeedjunky01 is a Top AussieSpeedjunky01 is a Top Aussie
iTrader Score: 40 reviews
Default

how are you logging the wb readings?
__________________
resident verbal assault tech Jr.

240,000 miles and counting turbo EH9
nothing like 4drs, ac,moon roof, and 4 whores and running 13psi out or a ching chong t3/t4 setup
the build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

if it survives the winter JdM d15b+Vitara+FJT+25psi=
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


professional tranny assassin, 2 stock diffs in 4 weeks on street tires and preload was used
Speedjunky01 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-04-2009, 11:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 45
Rep Power: 0 N54E90XI is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by plasticknives View Post
Ok how about this.

The only thing the emanage is doing is boost cut at 3.00v and injectors scaled from 180 to 240 (fuel is zeroed out)

6000rpm, 100% throttle, 73% duty cycle, 11.5-12 a/f

Shouldn't the car run lean as hell with no fuel map?
Since your emanage is dialed for 180s and you've scaled it for 240s, it's effectively altering your MAP signal to the ECU for closed-loop fuel control. Therefore because you have the clamping set at 3.00V your MAP signal won't be clamped until it see's 4.0V (~5psi) from the actual MAP sensor due to the scaling.

You're not running lean as you expect because when you approach clamped MAP pressure your ECU is sending full (non-scaled back) pulse widths for 180cc injectors when you have 240cc injectors (33% bigger) installed.

The emanage doesn't have complete direct control over injector pulse widths. It reduces fuel flow by altering the map signal and increases by adding pulse widths.

Last edited by N54E90XI; 08-04-2009 at 11:48 AM.
N54E90XI is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-04-2009, 11:51 AM   #8 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
d16asfck's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: BEER TOWN
Posts: 172
Rep Power: 11 d16asfck is learning the way of the Dd16asfck is learning the way of the D
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via MSN to d16asfck
Exclamation

how much boost ???
at wich rpm boost is maxed out
maybe modifing your values and decrease from there on
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

IRISH
BLOOD

HELLAFLUSH
hawt! but stupid.
just like blonds...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


blah,blah,blah.......well fuck you

EG8
EJ1
d16asfck is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-04-2009, 12:12 PM   #9 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 16
Rep Power: 0 plasticknives is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedjunky01 View Post
how are you logging the wb readings?
aem uego

Quote:
Originally Posted by N54E90XI View Post
Since your emanage is dialed for 180s and you've scaled it for 240s, it's effectively altering your MAP signal to the ECU for closed-loop fuel control. Therefore because you have the clamping set at 3.00V your MAP signal won't be clamped until it see's 4.0V (~5psi) from the actual MAP sensor due to the scaling.

You're not running lean as you expect because when you approach clamped MAP pressure your ECU is sending full (non-scaled back) pulse widths for 180cc injectors when you have 240cc injectors (33% bigger) installed.

The emanage doesn't have complete direct control over injector pulse widths. It reduces fuel flow by altering the map signal and increases by adding pulse widths.
The emanage is actually for 240's so I installed 240s and scaled from 180s to 240s.

How does the stock ECU determine the pulse width in boost? Does it just take the last value it had (0 vac)?

Since the o2 sensor can handle the correction in closed loop, would I be better off manually scaling the injectors back through the airflow map rather than the built in correction thing?
plasticknives is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-05-2009, 04:47 AM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 45
Rep Power: 0 N54E90XI is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by plasticknives View Post
The emanage is actually for 240's so I installed 240s and scaled from 180s to 240s.

How does the stock ECU determine the pulse width in boost? Does it just take the last value it had (0 vac)?

Since the o2 sensor can handle the correction in closed loop, would I be better off manually scaling the injectors back through the airflow map rather than the built in correction thing?
The emanage is just a piggyback that lets the stock ECU run on it's stock fuel tables. With boosted applications the idea is once you hit the clamp threshold the ECU will supply fuel based on 0 vac manifold pressure. The emanage fuel map will then supplement fuel by adding additional pulse widths on top of what the ECU is sending to the injectors.

Are the stock injectors on a y7 180cc? If so the emanage has to be dialed to what the stock ECU is expecting to function properly. When you install a set of different sized injectors then you use the injector correction which effectively scales the MAP sensor for proper closed-loop operation (the scaling also affects open-loop operation a la SAFC-style).

I haven't played with the emanage in a while but I would not configure the injectors through the airflow adjustment map. I only used it for fine tuning as a mechanism for subtracting fuel because if I remember correctly you couldn't do this through the fuel map.

Last edited by N54E90XI; 08-05-2009 at 05:02 AM.
N54E90XI is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the D-series.org forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


iconAll times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:58 AM. | Welcome to Forum, please register to access all of our features.