How much can I do to a D16Z6 before needing a tune? - D-series.org

Go Back   D-series.org Motor Mayhem & Suspension Satisfaction Engine Management

D-Series.org is the premier Honda All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-18-2018, 08:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0 Turbo_342 is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default How much can I do to a D16Z6 before needing a tune?

How's it going guys? New to the board and relatively new to these Civic... Been working on cars since I could first pick up tools, built several muscle cars, but it's my first time doing anything other than maintenance on one of these cars, and this one happens to be my daily.

My car is a stock '95 CX, but I'm planning the D16Z6 swap for later on down the road. Got 178k on this motor and it still runs perfectly. I attribute that to the regular maintenance with quality components and lubricants.

ANYHOW... LOL... Once I do pull the trigger on the Z6 swap, how much can I do to it before needing a tune? Was considering a head shave and Y8 HG's to get the CR up to about 10:1, as well as the 63441Z cam from Crower, along with the existing DC Tri-Y header & CAI, and Buddy Club Sport Pro Spec exhaust. Would this get me to the point of needing / justifying a tune?

This car will remain my daily, so I'm just looking for a little more power, but don't really want to get to the point of custom tunes and such.

Thanks for any input. Oh, and yes I tried searching this info but got tired of not finding anything specific.

- Turbo
Turbo_342 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-19-2018, 08:12 AM   #2 (permalink)
D-series soldier
 
ninjajp's Avatar
 
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: SEATTLE
Posts: 977
Rep Power: 13 ninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagle
iTrader Score: 1 reviews
Default

So....you wish to up your CR but are asking if you need a tune. Do you already run 92? If you stay pump gas and don't boost then not really. But to keep from running rich? Average tune on the chrome or hondata.
__________________
Make your suspension FASTER than your engine. Research is the best medicine for ignorance.

88-89'??? crx hf special edition w/zc/z6 H.Comp,4n2 I.H.E,zc tranny w/1st stage street clutch, Si fly wheel, custom dual exhaust(y pipe), H&R suspension w/front to back sway bars,struts,heavy coils, shortshifter. milled z6 head, skunk 2 cam.

new edelbrock mani coming soon.
ninjajp is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-19-2018, 08:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
D-series soldier
 
ninjajp's Avatar
 
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: SEATTLE
Posts: 977
Rep Power: 13 ninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagle
iTrader Score: 1 reviews
Default

Experience. My CRX 10:5.1 for my CR. No problem going to Arco. Got a laptop? Good. Learn chrome. Pass it on.
__________________
Make your suspension FASTER than your engine. Research is the best medicine for ignorance.

88-89'??? crx hf special edition w/zc/z6 H.Comp,4n2 I.H.E,zc tranny w/1st stage street clutch, Si fly wheel, custom dual exhaust(y pipe), H&R suspension w/front to back sway bars,struts,heavy coils, shortshifter. milled z6 head, skunk 2 cam.

new edelbrock mani coming soon.
ninjajp is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2018, 08:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0 Turbo_342 is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

No offense but did you read my post? My car currently has the stock D15B8 motor that comes in the CX, so why would I run 92 octane?

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is just how much learning these older ECU's can actually do before needing a tune, especially considering this car will remain naturally aspirated. Just trying to plan ahead is all.
Turbo_342 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-19-2018, 10:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
spAdam's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: In a smokey valley, CA
Posts: 233
Rep Power: 7 spAdam smells like BoratspAdam smells like BoratspAdam smells like BoratspAdam smells like BoratspAdam smells like BoratspAdam smells like Borat
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

They don't learn anything, and you don't "learn" ignition timing anyway, so get that mythology out of your head for any ecu. The most you get is a fuel trim based on O2/Lambda sensor input, but that is not a tuned map in any way.

Yes, for what you are proposing, you will need to tune. Skip CROME, buy an s300 and a proper lambda sensor setup. Learning to tune a mild NA setup is ideal since there is not a lot you can do to blow the thing up while learning.
spAdam is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-19-2018, 07:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0 Turbo_342 is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Now that's the kind of input I was hoping for. Thank you! I'll look into it.
Turbo_342 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-19-2018, 08:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0 Turbo_342 is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spAdam View Post
They don't learn anything, and you don't "learn" ignition timing anyway, so get that mythology out of your head for any ecu. The most you get is a fuel trim based on O2/Lambda sensor input, but that is not a tuned map in any way.

Yes, for what you are proposing, you will need to tune. Skip CROME, buy an s300 and a proper lambda sensor setup. Learning to tune a mild NA setup is ideal since there is not a lot you can do to blow the thing up while learning.
BTW, it's already fuel injected with the 4 wire O2, so what do you mean by "proper lambda sensor setup"?
Turbo_342 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-19-2018, 08:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
BATSLOMAN GIVES 0 FUCKS
 
slo_eg8's Avatar
 
iTrader: (28)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: TAMPA FLORIDA
Posts: 3,854
Rep Power: 50 slo_eg8 is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !slo_eg8 is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !slo_eg8 is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
slo_eg8 is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !slo_eg8 is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !slo_eg8 is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !slo_eg8 is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !slo_eg8 is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !slo_eg8 is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !slo_eg8 is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !slo_eg8 is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !slo_eg8 is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !slo_eg8 is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !slo_eg8 is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
iTrader Score: 28 reviews
Send a message via AIM to slo_eg8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_342 View Post
BTW, it's already fuel injected with the 4 wire O2, so what do you mean by "proper lambda sensor setup"?
not stock.....if youre going to tune timing and ignition tables and fuel youre gonna need a proper o2
__________________
turbo d16z6
.42/.48 garrett
je pistons, eagle rods, y7 lsd trans w/4.3fd
koni yellow/gc coils
uber rare eg6 optional snowflakes

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

new 95 ej1.
slo_eg8 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2018, 01:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
D-Series cadet
 
EFB055's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Posts: 440
Rep Power: 9 EFB055 It's a JDM Star Bitches....
EFB055 It's a JDM Star Bitches....EFB055 It's a JDM Star Bitches....EFB055 It's a JDM Star Bitches....
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_342 View Post
BTW, it's already fuel injected with the 4 wire O2, so what do you mean by "proper lambda sensor setup"?
Search narrowband vs wideband. Basically the difference is the input range of the sensor and its ability to turn that range into a voltage that can be read by your ECU.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
EFB055 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2018, 03:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
spAdam's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: In a smokey valley, CA
Posts: 233
Rep Power: 7 spAdam smells like BoratspAdam smells like BoratspAdam smells like BoratspAdam smells like BoratspAdam smells like BoratspAdam smells like Borat
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Lambda Sensor = Wideband Sensor. Does not equal a 4 wire oxygen sensor. You cannot tune with the latter.

As far as controllers I personally prefer PLX Devices' products. There are others that are okay too, and probably some that are great that I haven't used, but I'll never hesitate to recommend PLX. It also has a simulated narrowband output that actually works well, which will be valuable down the road if you decide to run in closed loop after you are done with your tune.

Get something that uses the LSU4.9 sensor, they are fast, almost indestructible, do not require calibration, and are readily available. The LSU4.2 sensor is a little older and works fine but has some shortcomings that the newer one doesn't.

Last edited by spAdam; 11-20-2018 at 03:11 PM.
spAdam is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-22-2018, 09:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0 Turbo_342 is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EFB055 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_342 View Post
BTW, it's already fuel injected with the 4 wire O2, so what do you mean by "proper lambda sensor setup"?
Search narrowband vs wideband. Basically the difference is the input range of the sensor and its ability to turn that range into a voltage that can be read by your ECU.
Ahhh, gotcha. Makes sense.
Turbo_342 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-22-2018, 09:27 AM   #12 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0 Turbo_342 is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spAdam View Post
Lambda Sensor = Wideband Sensor. Does not equal a 4 wire oxygen sensor. You cannot tune with the latter.

As far as controllers I personally prefer PLX Devices' products. There are others that are okay too, and probably some that are great that I haven't used, but I'll never hesitate to recommend PLX. It also has a simulated narrowband output that actually works well, which will be valuable down the road if you decide to run in closed loop after you are done with your tune.

Get something that uses the LSU4.9 sensor, they are fast, almost indestructible, do not require calibration, and are readily available. The LSU4.2 sensor is a little older and works fine but has some shortcomings that the newer one doesn't.
Now I have to ask; With the cost of all of these various components adding up, would doing the tune myself be more cost effective than having it professionally dyno tuned?
Turbo_342 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-22-2018, 09:52 AM   #13 (permalink)
D-series soldier
 
ninjajp's Avatar
 
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: SEATTLE
Posts: 977
Rep Power: 13 ninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagleninjajp is fly like an eagle
iTrader Score: 1 reviews
Default

Lol. You don't know anything. Do what I said. That simple. Btw. The build you proposed is the subject. Run 92. The tune is to obviously not run rich or lean. An aftermarket O2 sensor is ideal. But only after changing your fuel injectors input/output. But what I told you was wrong because lambda? Skip chrome?
Pffft. In the end giving forceful advice doesn't make the car run. I declare shenanigans on this post.

Besides that you're building a Z6. ANY of those threads have what you needed. Saying they don't. Not a single car build in here that didn't/doesnt. Especially a single cam vtec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_342 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spAdam View Post
Lambda Sensor = Wideband Sensor. Does not equal a 4 wire oxygen sensor. You cannot tune with the latter.

As far as controllers I personally prefer PLX Devices' products. There are others that are okay too, and probably some that are great that I haven't used, but I'll never hesitate to recommend PLX. It also has a simulated narrowband output that actually works well, which will be valuable down the road if you decide to run in closed loop after you are done with your tune.

Get something that uses the LSU4.9 sensor, they are fast, almost indestructible, do not require calibration, and are readily available. The LSU4.2 sensor is a little older and works fine but has some shortcomings that the newer one doesn't.
Now I have to ask; With the cost of all of these various components adding up, would doing the tune myself be more cost effective than having it professionally dyno tuned?
Do both. Whp is the dyno tune process.
__________________
Make your suspension FASTER than your engine. Research is the best medicine for ignorance.

88-89'??? crx hf special edition w/zc/z6 H.Comp,4n2 I.H.E,zc tranny w/1st stage street clutch, Si fly wheel, custom dual exhaust(y pipe), H&R suspension w/front to back sway bars,struts,heavy coils, shortshifter. milled z6 head, skunk 2 cam.

new edelbrock mani coming soon.

Last edited by slo_eg8; 11-22-2018 at 08:40 PM.
ninjajp is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the D-series.org forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


iconAll times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:31 PM. | Welcome to Forum, please register to access all of our features.