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Old 10-22-2018, 06:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default General Question About Tuning Theory

So I'm going to tune a H23A Blue Top, and to me it seems very much similar to the H22 with a longer stroke. I figured I would start with a H22 basemap and tune from there, but my question is about ignition timing differences.

In general, if you increase the stroke on an engine, you would expect the engine to make peak power at lower ignition timing levels? It seems like I will have to take some timing away from the H22 ignition maps in certain areas for it to be ideal on the H23A, does this seem correct or is it the opposite? I don't have a dyno to tune this engine, it will just be street tuning with a det can.
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Why dont you start with an H23A basemap?

I dont know which tuning platform you are gonan use, but there are plenty of basemaps out there to find.

Might even need to use the website archives to find a clean one.
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Old 10-22-2018, 04:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm using Neptune, and I didn't find any H23A calibrations (at least not stock ones).
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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i did not realize that many shops and online sites have stopped doing basempas for pocket change, and are now selling for a good chunk of change.

https://www.hamotorsports.com/neptun...m-basemap.html

At least this one is 29 bucks and not 50 or 80, as found on other sites.


Looks like all you need is Neptune RTP setup to go form laptop to ecu.
Im assuming you do, as the very old neptune stuff was more involved in messing around.


I found this via googling "neptune honda base maps"


What a shame. Years ago, xenocron was offering un-tuned basemaps for $15 and they usually were good about emailing them within 24 hours
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Old 10-25-2018, 09:25 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Xenocron offers basemap files ($20) and stock engine chips ($22.50), although HA actually has H23A bluetop as an option in their dropdown whereas Xenocron doesn't.

I'm sure if you were to call Xenocron, they would either have this file or could source it for you from somewhere and email it to you fairly pain free.

Either way, you can definitely get the stock map file for that engine on the seriously cheap from a few places (unless of course you completely insist on the street tune method because it's fun and free )


EDIT: I apologize, the pricing I put here is incorrect for the Neptune basemap files on Xenocron. They do want $50, not sure why cause that is steep! The above prices are for Crome, etc. binary type files, which cannot be directly used by Neptune. I would probably go with HA in this case, as their Neptune basemaps are as mattliston said $29 bucks.

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Old 10-25-2018, 09:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I've personally not been a fan of "basemaps" especially for non-US engines. Also, a basemap is meant to be a starting place, and I'm asking more about the final tuning of the ignition maps.

I would be more interested in a final tuned ignition map for a H23A bluetop than a basemap. That way I can get an idea of how it compares to just a H22.
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Old 10-25-2018, 02:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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There are quite a few places online that sell "tuned" maps.

You simply fill in the information on your motor, and they make it pretty close to what you want.

If you are wanting a very clean start, simply indicate you are using 87 octane fuel, that way the ignition map is conservative and ready for a good datalog session on the street during your tuning.
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Old 10-27-2018, 11:14 AM   #8 (permalink)
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This is more dependant on the R/S ratio than the displacement. Think about things in terms of piston acceleration from TDC.
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Old 11-09-2018, 03:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I think that's what the OP was thinking since the H22A and H23A have the same deck height, iirc. Theoretically yes, if you stroke an engine at the same deck height, you increase the rod/stroke ratio, and hence the max piston speed, so you should end up seeing less peak timing. The VE curve will likely be shifted slightly due to different pumping efficiency as well... this will shift the fuel and ignition curves along the rpm axis.

Worth stressing about a new base map over? Not really. Pull a degree out of the WOT columns and go tune.
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