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Old 10-12-2016, 07:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Crome Basemap (Advise required)

(Also posted at H-T)
Hello,
I'm trying to learn a little bit about tuning with crome... specially for basemaps. I'm working on a basemap for my car since I'm in Baja and there are no tuners nearby. I think that the closest one is at San Diego.

ECU: P28 (chipped obviously)
D16Y7 (Oem internals)
240cc injectors (Probably going to buy a set of 440cc)
Stock FPR
Walbro fuel pump
Emusa (cheap) T3/T4 .50 Trim turbo
The wastegate is "set" to 8 psi

I've been playing a little bit with crome and I came up with this basemap, I will order an AEM wideband next week but meanwhile I'd like to know if this would be safe for driving/cruising some time.
I already have the chips and the burn2 burner and freelog (useless as for now).

I don't really wanna buy a bin, if I have everything to do it myself it wouldnt hurt me if I learn how to do it, that's why I came here for advise.
Regards!
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Old 10-12-2016, 07:52 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
240cc injectors (Probably going to buy a set of 440cc)
Just NO!

get some injectors, follow the how to on making base map.
retard timing est 1 deg per lb of boost
the tune the air fuel ratio
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Old 10-12-2016, 08:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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zup bro.
I said probably... but I know it's a must. I just don't know if I will get a set of 440 or 550cc injectors. But I'll get them definitely.

Thx for the tip on the timing.
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Old 10-12-2016, 06:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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i ran 12lbs on a stock set of 240's and a stock civic fuel pump for about a year beating on a stock z6 with a china t3/t4. Only reason it finally went was because i turned the boost up to 16psi and it melted a hole in the top of one of the pistons and all of the rods were slightly bent. Probably due to the fuel pump being too small rather than the injectors (not that they helped).

I wouldnt be scared so much of the injector size as long as you know if your detonating or not. however if you really need to keep this vehicle running, i would suggest not doing wot pulls until you get the WBO2.
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Old 10-16-2016, 04:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I've boosted on 240ccs.. ~210whp 10.5PSI

And Hell, I've pulled 2 degrees per pound and had good results.
1 per pound is sometimes still too much. And that's being completely ignorant to your fueling.

Y'all "experts" need to quit over reacting and freaking out about shit that works, because you heard it didn't.

Get some experience first, ya damn Honda Kids. That's what Hondas are for... So you dont blow up a skyline.


That 2D maps looks a lot better than the crap in the Neptune Thread

Last edited by TheToaster; 10-16-2016 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 12-02-2016, 02:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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id say go with it, pick up tunerstudio after you get a wideband.

you can usually find a pre-made bin in the wiki links of pgmfi.org heres the library link PGMFI.ORG - Grassroots ECU Development - Library . WebHome


and heres the link to premade bin. files repository
PGMFI.ORG - Grassroots ECU Development - Library . EcuDefinitionCodes
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Old 12-03-2016, 07:51 AM   #7 (permalink)
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avoid boosting with the 240cc injectors unless you can crank the fuel pressure up 5-10 psi.

make sure the pump sock is new, filter is newer, and you are using good quality fuel.

you are pretty much safely limited to around 150-160whp.

anything beyond is too close to the edge for me. 20 year old injectors will not handle 90-100% duty cycle for very long.
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Old 12-04-2016, 04:09 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Looks like it may run out of fuel in the higher rpm on 8 psi. For what it's worth, I run my stock 190cc injectors on 2-3 psi of boost from a td04 13t turbo on my stock d15 for months without issue. The duty cycle was around 90-95 % as far as I remember.
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Old 12-04-2016, 07:26 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheToaster View Post
I've boosted on 240ccs.. ~210whp 10.5PSI

And Hell, I've pulled 2 degrees per pound and had good results.
1 per pound is sometimes still too much. And that's being completely ignorant to your fueling.

Y'all "experts" need to quit over reacting and freaking out about shit that works, because you heard it didn't.

Get some experience first, ya damn Honda Kids. That's what Hondas are for... So you dont blow up a skyline.


That 2D maps looks a lot better than the crap in the Neptune Thread
unless you cranked the base pressure or were running near 14.7:1 at full load, or the dyno had absurd correction factors (possible), you just didn't.

a 240cc injector at stock fuel pressure physically can't flow enough fuel for that power

Code:
RETURN FUEL SYSTEM, 43.5PSI		Max DC	100	Target lambda	0.85	12.495	8.296		MAX POWER (gas)	MAX POWER (e85)
injector	per inj, lbs	all 4	to lbs/min, limit d/c	max comp flow	max comp flow e85		
stock 240cc	22.85714286	91.42	1.524	lbs/min	19lbs/air  12.6	lbs/air 	             195.7	              132.3
I wrote a spreadsheet to calc this stuff out awhile back - at 100% duty cycle, 12.5:1 (which is too lean imo), using the relatively generous assumption that 1lb/min of air = 10.3 crank hp, you can only make 195chp from the stock injectors

which meshes really nicely with all the anecdotes of "stock injectors are good till ~160whp" we've all heard for the past 10 years
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Old 12-06-2016, 01:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
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order ,receive ,and install a wideband before you start to "I'm trying to learn a little bit about tuning with crome... specially for basemaps."





Quote:
Originally Posted by herzeleid View Post
(Also posted at H-T)
Hello,
I'm trying to learn a little bit about tuning with crome... specially for basemaps. I'm working on a basemap for my car since I'm in Baja and there are no tuners nearby. I think that the closest one is at San Diego.

ECU: P28 (chipped obviously)
D16Y7 (Oem internals)
240cc injectors (Probably going to buy a set of 440cc)
Stock FPR
Walbro fuel pump
Emusa (cheap) T3/T4 .50 Trim turbo
The wastegate is "set" to 8 psi

I've been playing a little bit with crome and I came up with this basemap, I will order an AEM wideband next week but meanwhile I'd like to know if this would be safe for driving/cruising some time.
I already have the chips and the burn2 burner and freelog (useless as for now).

I don't really wanna buy a bin, if I have everything to do it myself it wouldnt hurt me if I learn how to do it, that's why I came here for advise.
Regards!
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Even smarter, grab a wideband that has a narrowband emulator built in

your ecu is happy to see the sensor, you are happy to have a wideband that outputs to a gauge.

FANTASTIC way to see how the stock ecu is treating the motor.

you will learn what honda did to keep these motors so reliable in the tune. Realize where the fuel is rich, where its lean, and learn how it reacts to coolant and air temperature feedback.


The good ol wideband/narrowband twin setup is the number one best way to enter the world of tuning.
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Old 03-18-2018, 07:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattliston View Post
Even smarter, grab a wideband that has a narrowband emulator built in

your ecu is happy to see the sensor, you are happy to have a wideband that outputs to a gauge.

FANTASTIC way to see how the stock ecu is treating the motor.

you will learn what honda did to keep these motors so reliable in the tune. Realize where the fuel is rich, where its lean, and learn how it reacts to coolant and air temperature feedback.


The good ol wideband/narrowband twin setup is the number one best way to enter the world of tuning.
That's what I'm doing but I keep getting that stupid er2 code. Good info tho. Any updates?
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:47 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Typical codes are either a bad sensor or you need to re calibrate the sensor.

I only get about 2 months of use out of my wide band sensors. Best to stock up on them. only about $50.00 online.

I recalibrate my sensor before i hit hard pulls everytime, and when on track ive burned out sensors in a weekend.

try to remove the sensor and clean it. It has helped me in the past.

What type of wideband do you use so i can find your error code.

I use innovate mtxl 3918 wideband with a bosch lsu sensor
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