Neptune Tuning - Questions D16 Turbo - D-series.org

Go Back   D-series.org Motor Mayhem & Suspension Satisfaction Engine Management

D-Series.org is the premier Honda All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-18-2015, 12:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
mdrouillard1983's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 119
Rep Power: 5 mdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enough
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default Neptune Tuning - Questions D16 Turbo

Hey guys,

Long time D series reader, recently signed up to start posting. Basic info on my setup:

1) Built D16Z6 Block w/75mm Vitara and Eagle H Beam Rods
2) D16Y8 re-built head wit aftermarket springs, retainers., stage 2 Comp cam
3) Garett T360 Turbo, Stillen Oil Cooler,
4) Upgraded Wahlbro 255 pump running an AEM fuel rail and 480CC high impedence injectors.
5) OBD1 conversion running Neptune RTP with an Innovate LM1 Wideband
6) AEM Methonol Injection Kit
7) Zex Wet 50HP injection

I won't bother listing everything, but I have basically everything with the exception of a sleeved block to run the HP numbers I want (300-400HP)

I'm essentially having 2 issues:

1) Hard Starts

The car has a few issues on cold startup - I have to crank her over a few more times than I would like before she fires up. What would cause this? I ran all the multipliers to accommodate for my 480CC up from the stock 240CC.

2) Once the car is warm, wants to lean out and stall
Once the car is warmed up, UNLESS I set the IACV duty cycle to something like 20+ % it will start idling low 700-800 and stall out, it starts going lean and will stall. Is this due to not having enough fuel in those cells for the lower RPM and vacuum ranges?

To accommodate i upped the IACV and target idle to 1200, but when it first fires up the damned thing idles at like 2200RPM. How can I have it idle at a normal 1600rpm or so and once it warms up, not die? I am not sure if I should play around with the idle adjustment screw a bit more with the IACV disconnected but it's almost as if once it gets hot (ECT 195+) and the revs start dropping it dies.


Other Facts:
-Ignition I am running at 16 degrees base set with a timing light, service connector jumped.

-Running BKR7E cool spark plugs, all new wires, brand new distributor and an MSD ignition coil.


The car pulls HARD and accelerates fine, its just once it gets warm it starts acting up. I also notice once its hot, it seems to lack a bit of power as opposed to when its not as warm... any explanation for this?

Thanks guys!
mdrouillard1983 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-18-2015, 01:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
xile6's Avatar
 
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tx
Posts: 6,365
Rep Power: 25 xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 9 reviews
Default

Im pretty sure your problem is a fuel table.
Cold start could be the ect tables.

The goong leab after warm up could be the VE tables.
I had means set at around 1 - 3% (it was the default for the map i was using) ended up searching and seeing all the other maps where using 11 to 18%

But post your map
__________________
Rep when need.
I also have shopkey if you need diagrams PM me. I am a Wiring Master.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. RIP

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
xile6 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-18-2015, 01:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
mdrouillard1983's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 119
Rep Power: 5 mdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enough
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xile6 View Post
Im pretty sure your problem is a fuel table.
Cold start could be the ect tables.

The goong leab after warm up could be the VE tables.
I had means set at around 1 - 3% (it was the default for the map i was using) ended up searching and seeing all the other maps where using 11 to 18%

But post your map
I will when I get home, what is the purpose of the VE map and how do they function?

I should mention on cold startup around 2200RPM I am getting around 11-12 air/fuel, then as it warms it slowly rises to bouncing between 14-15 but every once in a while goes lean, rpm drops and balances back out but basically about to stall out.. I'm trying to target 14.7 at idle around 1000rpm when fully warmed up but I still that I am running too rich on startup.

Last edited by mdrouillard1983; 08-18-2015 at 01:44 PM.
mdrouillard1983 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2015, 04:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
D-series PIMP
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Apache Junction AZ
Posts: 1,237
Rep Power: 14 CustomY8 is fly like an eagleCustomY8 is fly like an eagleCustomY8 is fly like an eagleCustomY8 is fly like an eagleCustomY8 is fly like an eagleCustomY8 is fly like an eagleCustomY8 is fly like an eagleCustomY8 is fly like an eagleCustomY8 is fly like an eagleCustomY8 is fly like an eagleCustomY8 is fly like an eagleCustomY8 is fly like an eagle
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Do you have a fitvalve?
CustomY8 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-18-2015, 06:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
D-series soldier
 
atheworld0's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Joplin Missouri
Posts: 504
Rep Power: 9 atheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagle
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Soo you need to go to a tuner. I'm willing to bet all your issues are related to the fuel map. There are fuel modify tables for different temperature ranges, hence the difference in a/f by engine temp. You need a tune by someone who knows what they are doing. Lastly, you do NOT have what it takes to make 300-400. Those injectors are way to small for that hp without a ton of fuel pressure. Neptune has a good help section, read it, but if your asking questions like what is a ve map you need someone else to do the tune. I'm not saying you can't learn, your just are no where close to ready to tune your own car yet.
atheworld0 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-19-2015, 04:34 AM   #6 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
mdrouillard1983's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 119
Rep Power: 5 mdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enough
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CustomY8 View Post
Do you have a fitvalve?
No FITV delete, there was no where to place it on the S2 intake manifold.
mdrouillard1983 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-19-2015, 04:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
mdrouillard1983's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 119
Rep Power: 5 mdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enough
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atheworld0 View Post
Soo you need to go to a tuner. I'm willing to bet all your issues are related to the fuel map. There are fuel modify tables for different temperature ranges, hence the difference in a/f by engine temp. You need a tune by someone who knows what they are doing. Lastly, you do NOT have what it takes to make 300-400. Those injectors are way to small for that hp without a ton of fuel pressure. Neptune has a good help section, read it, but if your asking questions like what is a ve map you need someone else to do the tune. I'm not saying you can't learn, your just are no where close to ready to tune your own car yet.
There aren't many tuners if any around here if any - who work with Neptune, there are Dyno's up in Toronto about an hour or so away but that is it and they would all require me to switch over to Hondata S300. If there was one locally I would definitely have a chat with him and let him have ago while I watched very closely and learned what he was doing. My car and this tuning thing is more than an ends to a mean to me, its a hobby so its more than just getting it tuned - its really understanding how it all works, and doing it.

I refuse to pay someone to do something I can do on my own, I feel I have enough competence to learn how to tune which is why I got all the stuff I needed (wideband, the Neptune system, laptop) and have DONE a tonne of reading. I've done the engine swap, built everything from the bearings up - if it blows up I make enough money that I can rebuild a new motor again - I want to know how every single aspect of my tune and engine works, not delegate it to someone else and call it a day.

I was hoping to hit 300hp with the 480's, what would you think I could hit with about 90% duty cycle on the injectors? I guess the only way to know is to see what others with similar setups have hit with those sized injectors.

Even if they weren't big enough, dude, i can drop the fuel rail, install new injectors in under an hour and have the maps changed with the fuel multipliers and start to re-tune. I am new to this forum but I am not some newbie to working on this engine/car -I don't know everything which is why I'm here asking how the "Volumetric Efficiency" tables function.

Last edited by mdrouillard1983; 08-19-2015 at 05:22 AM.
mdrouillard1983 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-19-2015, 05:17 AM   #8 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
mdrouillard1983's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 119
Rep Power: 5 mdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enough
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Okay to spread the knowledge:

€ View topic - VE fuel enrichment map

VE Tables are used only in open loop and can be adjusted to apply at specific ECT temperatures. So once the engine hits a specific temperature, this table will modify the fuel tables to add a certain % of fuel. This is a good find, I will see if I can use this to help my cause.

So thinking out loud here, I find that once the engine reaches operational temperatures > 190F or so; it starts to get on the lean side, I will us the VE tables to kick in once it hits 190 and slowly add %'s to the idle columns until it levels out at 14.7-15. This will allow me to reduce the fuel in the base fuel maps which will help reduce the pig rich idle on cold startup.

Last edited by mdrouillard1983; 08-19-2015 at 05:27 AM.
mdrouillard1983 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-19-2015, 09:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 68
Rep Power: 10 HRTuning is starting to learn the ropesHRTuning is starting to learn the ropesHRTuning is starting to learn the ropesHRTuning is starting to learn the ropesHRTuning is starting to learn the ropesHRTuning is starting to learn the ropes
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

You can use the VE tables that way, but only if you'll never be in closed loop.

Also you may just want to alter the fuel tables appropriately instead.

Beyond that did you adjust your injector battery offsets for the new injectors you put in? If not, you need to.
HRTuning is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-19-2015, 09:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
mdrouillard1983's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 119
Rep Power: 5 mdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enough
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRTuning View Post
You can use the VE tables that way, but only if you'll never be in closed loop.

Also you may just want to alter the fuel tables appropriately instead.

Beyond that did you adjust your injector battery offsets for the new injectors you put in? If not, you need to.
Hey HRTuning I was waiting for you guys to chime in! Thanks -- My responses below.

Also you may just want to alter the fuel tables appropriately instead.
If I do this, it runs crazy rich when it just starts up, like <= 11 AFR. So by the time the engine warms up it gets closer to where I want it 14.7. I figured temperature dependent changes would fix this by using the VE tables?

The idle also seems to drop as it gets warmer (NO FITV BTW), if it runs good at startup or cooler temps, once it gets hotter RPMS drop, and air furl intermetently leans out until it bogs or stalls; hence why I have had to put such a huge IACV duty cycle of like 25% but that's not temp dependent so its always running at that duty cycle. Even if I set the target idle at specific ECT's it dosn't seem to hold it once the car warms up, and bogs. I'd like to avoid having the car idling at 2000+ rpm when it first fires up if possible. Can these issues be fixed by modifying just the fuel tables?

Beyond that did you adjust your injector battery offsets for the new injectors you put in? If not, you need to
And another question I was going to ask, where do I find the offsets for my injectors? All I know is they are high impedance 480CC Niki injectors.

These are what I have...
4 480cc Nikki Fuel Injectors OBD2 Honda B D H F Series Civic Integra | eBay

Last edited by mdrouillard1983; 08-19-2015 at 09:32 AM.
mdrouillard1983 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-19-2015, 12:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
xile6's Avatar
 
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tx
Posts: 6,365
Rep Power: 25 xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 9 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrouillard1983 View Post
Hey HRTuning I was waiting for you guys to chime in! Thanks -- My responses below.

Also you may just want to alter the fuel tables appropriately instead.
If I do this, it runs crazy rich when it just starts up, like <= 11 AFR. So by the time the engine warms up it gets closer to where I want it 14.7. I figured temperature dependent changes would fix this by using the VE tables?

The idle also seems to drop as it gets warmer (NO FITV BTW), if it runs good at startup or cooler temps, once it gets hotter RPMS drop, and air furl intermetently leans out until it bogs or stalls; hence why I have had to put such a huge IACV duty cycle of like 25% but that's not temp dependent so its always running at that duty cycle. Even if I set the target idle at specific ECT's it dosn't seem to hold it once the car warms up, and bogs. I'd like to avoid having the car idling at 2000+ rpm when it first fires up if possible. Can these issues be fixed by modifying just the fuel tables?

Beyond that did you adjust your injector battery offsets for the new injectors you put in? If not, you need to
And another question I was going to ask, where do I find the offsets for my injectors? All I know is they are high impedance 480CC Niki injectors.

These are what I have...
4 480cc Nikki Fuel Injectors OBD2 Honda B D H F Series Civic Integra | eBay
So in other words you need to tune your setup and your asking why things arent working.


You need to read a tuning guide. (i have one on the aem fic. it might help you out)

But first thing to do is email the seller and ask for an injector offset table.
It should be battery voltage to injector time in "ms"

You will need to add those numbers into the neptune injector offset settings.

Next i would disable "close loop"
Start the car and let it idle.
Wait until the car is warm (you can see the temps in neptune get it to around 195f)

Then you will start to adjust the fuel map.
Up for richer, down for leaner.
Aim for a 13.8 to 14.5 AFR.

Then your need to drive it around and make sure the AFR are close to where you want it.

Then shut it down and let it cool off.
This way you can set up warm up and ECT offsets.

You adjust the numbers in the ECT offset tables. Remember small changes here.
Once that is set able close loop and set up the o2 settings (if your using narrowbrand or wideband input)
give it a few seconds and the idle should move and hold 14.7
Go for a drive and it should try to target 14.7 for all close loop.
Check the short term fuel trims.
This is let you know how far off you are from your target AFR.
Make adjustment and then repeated.

Once all that is down do some pulls and adjust boost setting.

And your injectors are too small. IF you want to swap them then do it now.
Dont wait til later you will have to retune.
__________________
Rep when need.
I also have shopkey if you need diagrams PM me. I am a Wiring Master.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. RIP

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
xile6 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-19-2015, 12:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
mdrouillard1983's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 119
Rep Power: 5 mdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enough
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xile6 View Post
So in other words you need to tune your setup and your asking why things arent working.


You need to read a tuning guide. (i have one on the aem fic. it might help you out)

But first thing to do is email the seller and ask for an injector offset table.
It should be battery voltage to injector time in "ms"

You will need to add those numbers into the neptune injector offset settings.

Next i would disable "close loop"
Start the car and let it idle.
Wait until the car is warm (you can see the temps in neptune get it to around 195f)

Then you will start to adjust the fuel map.
Up for richer, down for leaner.
Aim for a 13.8 to 14.5 AFR.

Then your need to drive it around and make sure the AFR are close to where you want it.

Then shut it down and let it cool off.
This way you can set up warm up and ECT offsets.

You adjust the numbers in the ECT offset tables. Remember small changes here.
Once that is set able close loop and set up the o2 settings (if your using narrowbrand or wideband input)
give it a few seconds and the idle should move and hold 14.7
Go for a drive and it should try to target 14.7 for all close loop.
Check the short term fuel trims.
This is let you know how far off you are from your target AFR.
Make adjustment and then repeated.

Once all that is down do some pulls and adjust boost setting.

And your injectors are too small. IF you want to swap them then do it now.
Dont wait til later you will have to retune.
This has got to be the most helpful response I have every seen, thanks man! I ordered some 800CC injectors so I'm going to install those before I re-tune, this info you posted is priceless.
mdrouillard1983 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-19-2015, 02:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
xile6's Avatar
 
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tx
Posts: 6,365
Rep Power: 25 xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 9 reviews
Default

You can tune it with those injectors, just aim for a lower hp level. You dont wanna go over 80% injector duty.
And just know that your need to edit the tune some for the bigger injectors when you add them.

So its really up to you. Either do it once and get everything down pack. Or do it twice when you change injectors.
__________________
Rep when need.
I also have shopkey if you need diagrams PM me. I am a Wiring Master.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. RIP

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
xile6 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2015, 05:22 AM   #14 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
mdrouillard1983's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 119
Rep Power: 5 mdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enoughmdrouillard1983 will become famous soon enough
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xile6 View Post
You can tune it with those injectors, just aim for a lower hp level. You dont wanna go over 80% injector duty.
And just know that your need to edit the tune some for the bigger injectors when you add them.

So its really up to you. Either do it once and get everything down pack. Or do it twice when you change injectors.
Perfect, I will probably just wait until the new injectors come and tune it that way.

BUT my original question is still a bit un-answered:

Say I have one fuel map, that is 14.7 at full operating temp (~200 degrees) when idling. When the car first fires up, it is FILTHY rich, is this normal? That from the ECT being room temperature, over the course of heating up to 190-200 it goes from 11 (RICH) to 14.7 ideal. I mean I do understand that an engine will run richer on startup because it is cold, but 11 seems a bit rich doesn't it? Or I could be completely out of the ball park and this is normal.

Or will I simply have to deal with a rich, high idling car until it warms up. The target idle which using ECT doesnt seem to maintain those targets that well without a stupid high IACV duty cycle... If I set the duty cycle back to 0%, the idle will be more acceptable upon first startup BUT once operational temperature is reaches, the idle drops low and it stalls...

Not sure if it is relevant, but fuel pressure is set to around 42-42 with vacuum line detached, 35 attached.

Last edited by mdrouillard1983; 08-20-2015 at 05:34 AM.
mdrouillard1983 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2015, 05:55 AM   #15 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
xile6's Avatar
 
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tx
Posts: 6,365
Rep Power: 25 xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 9 reviews
Default

From what i dealt with. The idle air sliders always needed to beove to 10 % but also i have always had an idle of 850 to 900rpms.

Also tuning it will help with staying.

The 11s AFR during warm up can be normal, but its easily adjusted via ect injector offset.
If you watch them as its warming up. Your be able to tell which cell needs adjusting and lower the offset whicj would lean it out.

The rpm should ne high on first start to aid in warm up. Normally 1300 to 1600 rpm.

Also as said before, you cant complain about things not working when you need to tune everything.

I went from my obd2 aem fic piggyback, to neptune and got it to idle and drive inna few minutnes. Then tooke a few pulls to tune it. And a few days to clean up every thing. But got everything running great and can redline it with boost and hold my AFR with and without ac on, with or without headlights on. All is as it should.


So again you need to tune your setup.
__________________
Rep when need.
I also have shopkey if you need diagrams PM me. I am a Wiring Master.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. RIP

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
xile6 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2015, 08:11 AM   #16 (permalink)
All powerful D-series member
 
TheToaster's Avatar
 
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Washington
Posts: 3,092
Rep Power: 16 TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!
TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 7 reviews
Default

It's caused by Neptune being an incomplete program and James being a rich arrogant bitch. He has earned enough money and publicity to not care anymore about a product that had potential. The program looks so good it sells and I believe it is released highly unfinished in hopes of absorbing profits. I had 2 demons spontaniously fail and leave me stranded. That is most upsetting when you believe you bought a quality product and are on the way to work. The best part was they replaced it twice before giving me a demon 2 which has no added features by the way, showing me they accepted the many problems as their own, quietly selling a bunk product. What it lacks is GENUINE support and functionality.

Set your "New injector size" back to 240 so it stops trying to scale everything. It scales everything including the things you can not adjust. This is where your issue is coming from. Look at your post start trim, and the tps settings. They don't match after scaling the injectors and you're gonna have some tuning issues. I know how it works. I also know the fueling is very confusing in this program as no order of operations or even final calculated fuel units ever appear anywhere in the program. Scale yourself completely as you see fit. Don't let the program half ass it for you cause you aren't clever enough. Stay out of the VE tables. I recommend you turn them off in the closed loop settings. (Again wtf) and then add them back in if you find a genuine use. Dealing with overly rich settings or a poor tune will result in long term damage and oil deterioration

The Neptune program also lacks the ability to adjust rolling idle. A setting even chrome has. It also lacks a confident fuel cut on decel. After squeezing some information out of the rather unhelpful author. I found it best to leave the injector sizing alone and scale both fuel maps and ect/iat by the percent it would usually take from the maps. Which can be found in the program when using the new injector sizing functions.

After using the program for several years I can confidently say it is inferior. I have tuned countless cars and engine combinations and have learned to deal with this shitty product. Look at how poorly the preference pane is organized and how small and difficult the buttons are to press. Maybe ok on a dyno, but the anger will come when you are trying to street tune and wonder why the buttons are so small and settings very difficult to adjust completely. I have raised this genuine concern to James in which he immediately got offended and acted like the little kid on the playground. He was calling me stupid and dumb, unimportant and irrelevant, my concerns were worthless to him. When you start to pressure him and question real issues. The real side comes out. The crappy yet prompt support is required because the documentation is so shitty and the settings so incomplete in their programming. Many unknowledgeable people and nuts wingers recommend it for reasons they do not fully understand. I highly recommend Hondata for the serious tuner as do many other professionals and winners.

Last edited by TheToaster; 08-20-2015 at 08:18 AM.
TheToaster is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2015, 04:46 PM   #17 (permalink)
D-series soldier
 
atheworld0's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Joplin Missouri
Posts: 504
Rep Power: 9 atheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagleatheworld0 is fly like an eagle
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Yeah, don't listen to Toaster. Hondata is a good product, but I have integrity so cannot use them at this stage in my life. If you know what you are doing, then you won't have a problem with the program. I have tuned tons of cars, everthing from one off stroked y8/d17 supercharged setups to 600+ turbo builds. There are many cars that run 9's on the program, so you can't exactly call it junk. Operator error is the number one issue with the product.
atheworld0 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2015, 05:22 PM   #18 (permalink)
Member
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 68
Rep Power: 10 HRTuning is starting to learn the ropesHRTuning is starting to learn the ropesHRTuning is starting to learn the ropesHRTuning is starting to learn the ropesHRTuning is starting to learn the ropesHRTuning is starting to learn the ropes
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheToaster View Post
It's caused by Neptune being an incomplete program and James being a rich arrogant bitch. He has earned enough money and publicity to not care anymore about a product that had potential. The program looks so good it sells and I believe it is released highly unfinished in hopes of absorbing profits. I had 2 demons spontaniously fail and leave me stranded. That is most upsetting when you believe you bought a quality product and are on the way to work. The best part was they replaced it twice before giving me a demon 2 which has no added features by the way, showing me they accepted the many problems as their own, quietly selling a bunk product. What it lacks is GENUINE support and functionality.

Set your "New injector size" back to 240 so it stops trying to scale everything. It scales everything including the things you can not adjust. This is where your issue is coming from. Look at your post start trim, and the tps settings. They don't match after scaling the injectors and you're gonna have some tuning issues. I know how it works. I also know the fueling is very confusing in this program as no order of operations or even final calculated fuel units ever appear anywhere in the program. Scale yourself completely as you see fit. Don't let the program half ass it for you cause you aren't clever enough. Stay out of the VE tables. I recommend you turn them off in the closed loop settings. (Again wtf) and then add them back in if you find a genuine use. Dealing with overly rich settings or a poor tune will result in long term damage and oil deterioration

The Neptune program also lacks the ability to adjust rolling idle. A setting even chrome has. It also lacks a confident fuel cut on decel. After squeezing some information out of the rather unhelpful author. I found it best to leave the injector sizing alone and scale both fuel maps and ect/iat by the percent it would usually take from the maps. Which can be found in the program when using the new injector sizing functions.

After using the program for several years I can confidently say it is inferior. I have tuned countless cars and engine combinations and have learned to deal with this shitty product. Look at how poorly the preference pane is organized and how small and difficult the buttons are to press. Maybe ok on a dyno, but the anger will come when you are trying to street tune and wonder why the buttons are so small and settings very difficult to adjust completely. I have raised this genuine concern to James in which he immediately got offended and acted like the little kid on the playground. He was calling me stupid and dumb, unimportant and irrelevant, my concerns were worthless to him. When you start to pressure him and question real issues. The real side comes out. The crappy yet prompt support is required because the documentation is so shitty and the settings so incomplete in their programming. Many unknowledgeable people and nuts wingers recommend it for reasons they do not fully understand. I highly recommend Hondata for the serious tuner as do many other professionals and winners.
I'm not sure what this is all about, but I'm certainly not rich, I certainly support my software, I don't make the Demon hardware or have any control over what Moates does with that hardware as far as features and updates, and I certainly didn't release NepTune unfinished in hopes of profits. That doesn't make much sense.

The documentation is lacking, I'll give you that, but I'm not very good at that particular thing and I still haven't found someone to help me with it. Take that for what it's worth, but I am always available for questions.

I don't accept issues with hardware even though I don't manufacturer the hardware... I make the software only. I get anyone having issues with the hardware to contact Moates support and he is excellent at getting any hardware issues or replacements taken care of. That's why I use his hardware. I have no hand in that part of it, though.

You're claiming I called you four different derogatory things? Are you sure it was me you were talking to? Maybe you were high or drunk? I can't take that statement seriously.
HRTuning is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2015, 05:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
xile6's Avatar
 
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tx
Posts: 6,365
Rep Power: 25 xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!xile6 is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 9 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheToaster View Post
RANT
Damn man. Idk where all that is coming from.
Im not on Neptunes nuts or anything but i found it very easy to use and everything works just fine for me. And the support is there. I made a thread on there site and got a reply with help within an hr.

The demon isnt build by them so its not there fault it messed up.
sorry you had a really bad run with them.
__________________
Rep when need.
I also have shopkey if you need diagrams PM me. I am a Wiring Master.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. RIP

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
xile6 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2015, 07:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
Two men shy of a group
 
Blu3's Avatar
 
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: quincy ca
Posts: 1,312
Rep Power: 20 Blu3 is the fucking MAN!!!!Blu3 is the fucking MAN!!!!Blu3 is the fucking MAN!!!!Blu3 is the fucking MAN!!!!
Blu3 is the fucking MAN!!!!Blu3 is the fucking MAN!!!!Blu3 is the fucking MAN!!!!Blu3 is the fucking MAN!!!!Blu3 is the fucking MAN!!!!Blu3 is the fucking MAN!!!!Blu3 is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 7 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrouillard1983 View Post
Perfect, I will probably just wait until the new injectors come and tune it that way.

BUT my original question is still a bit un-answered:

Say I have one fuel map, that is 14.7 at full operating temp (~200 degrees) when idling. When the car first fires up, it is FILTHY rich, is this normal? That from the ECT being room temperature, over the course of heating up to 190-200 it goes from 11 (RICH) to 14.7 ideal. I mean I do understand that an engine will run richer on startup because it is cold, but 11 seems a bit rich doesn't it? Or I could be completely out of the ball park and this is normal.

Or will I simply have to deal with a rich, high idling car until it warms up. The target idle which using ECT doesnt seem to maintain those targets that well without a stupid high IACV duty cycle... If I set the duty cycle back to 0%, the idle will be more acceptable upon first startup BUT once operational temperature is reaches, the idle drops low and it stalls...

Not sure if it is relevant, but fuel pressure is set to around 42-42 with vacuum line detached, 35 attached.
That could be your post startup fuel trims, ect or iat correction tables. Im tuned with crome and my car was going into 10.3:1 afr range after startup and I kept thinking it was the ect or iat corrections but it ended up being post startup fuel table, it was dumping to much fuel at certain temps outside whether the motor was hot or cold.

Some day when I have extra money I want to upgrade to neptune, I really would like to have anti theft built into my ecu
__________________
my turbo hx build :
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

turbo 99 ex sedan A/C build -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Alicia Aemisegger
Blu3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the D-series.org forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


iconAll times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:04 PM. | Welcome to Forum, please register to access all of our features.