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Old 05-27-2009, 08:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Total timing ???

What does this term means ???
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Old 05-27-2009, 08:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
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never heard of it! have heard of mechanical and ignition
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
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perhaps timing between dizzy and cam timing combined? damnit i think im getting dumber as i get older, i know i knew this at some point.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
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What is Initial Timing and Total Timing?
Initial timing is that setting you make while your engine is idling with a timing light. This is typically between 4 ATDC (After Top Dead Center) to 16 BTDC (Before Top Dead Center). For performance applications "in most cases" you want as much initial timing as the starter can handle (the more timing the more cylinder pressure that the starter must overcome to crank the engine). Too much initial timing, besides the starter load, can also run the HC (Hydrocarbon) emission levels beyond legal or breathable levels <hint to the smog machine as a tuning tool above>.

Total timing is the calculation of the combined initial and mechanical advance timing settings (max). This "can" also include your vacuum advance though, I like to describe it as "total timing plus vacuum advance". Since vacuum advance is a nearly inconsistent value I like to use it after I have set up the correct mechanical values in the distributor. At times I must use the vacuum advance to generate the timing values I require, but I try to only use it as an "economy" tool to give a street driven vehicle more efficiency and throttle response by this addition.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I went round and round about this with Blundar....

OLD school was the base timing of the dist, plus how much advance the weights brought in inside the dist.

NEW school on Honda, the timing maps are based on having the dizzy set to a known base setting (16 BTDC) and then the maps read directly.

or it might be base + map......so much info in Blundells head, hard to decipher at times.
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:35 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Im asking this question, cause I saw here and others forums, people asking for total timing for tunning issues.

I belive this is about timing degrees at WOT but not shure.
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
I went round and round about this with Blundar....

OLD school was the base timing of the dist, plus how much advance the weights brought in inside the dist.

NEW school on Honda, the timing maps are based on having the dizzy set to a known base setting (16 BTDC) and then the maps read directly.

or it might be base + map......so much info in Blundells head, hard to decipher at times.
Yes Sir, I also understand base + map, but maybe the map include the base timing ???
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:47 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Yes Sir, I also understand base + map, but maybe the map include the base timing ???
I think maps include base. or at least that's my opinion anyways
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:32 AM   #9 (permalink)
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The maps usually include base ignition timing as it gets confusing to determine your ignition timing if you constantly have to add base timing. This is why it's important to set correct base ignition timing because the ECU assumes it's set to a certain value.

I don't think there's an official definition of "total timing". Generally when I see a reference to this term people are inferring to max ignition timing in the upper RPMs on a WOT pull.
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:39 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by N54E90XI View Post
The maps usually include base ignition timing as it gets confusing to determine your ignition timing if you constantly have to add base timing. This is why it's important to set correct base ignition timing because the ECU assumes it's set to a certain value.

I don't think there's an official definition of "total timing". Generally when I see a reference to this term people are inferring to max ignition timing in the upper RPMs on a WOT pull.
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:01 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Its a old school thing on my 383 Chevy is set base the messed with weights and springs to set total. I ditched my vac advance. Some of the old school hot roders even lock timing (dont ask).

Magnetos, points and condensers, dwell. I like crome. The only Hondas that you have to worry about is like the old d16a1s in the first gen tegs thy had base total and a vac advance. Not that I have set or have seen any one set any of that stuff up on them.
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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total timing from what i understand is....

ok so you have 16btdc to start with

then your tuning for say 10psi -1* per psi so that would be -10 off of -16 making 6*

which is your total timing.....basically the # at the top of you map at red line with full boost......

hope that makes sense....
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:31 AM   #13 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=fuse;1665315]Its a old school thing on my 383 Chevy is set base the messed with weights and springs to set total. I ditched my vac advance. Some of the old school hot roders even lock timing (dont ask).

QUOTE]

i have had several people tell me to do that....no? im not a circle track racer whos always at wot its a street engine....
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Old 05-28-2009, 02:13 PM   #14 (permalink)
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i have had several people tell me to do that....no? im not a circle track racer whos always at wot its a street engine....
What ditch the vac or lock the timing? I ditched the vac because I was dumb at the time. Its good to run more timing at cruise then compared to wot. Locking the timing sounds strange to me and makes starting the car a bitch. You are basically runing pre ignition till about 3500 rpms bad for low end. I think people just do it for the easy way out less stuff to brake no springs no weights no vac advance. It works ok for drag and off road cars but not so much on the street.

Still it’s a old school thing even the v8s have moved into the tuning world.
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Old 05-28-2009, 02:16 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by crazymx6 View Post
total timing from what i understand is....

ok so you have 16btdc to start with

then your tuning for say 10psi -1* per psi so that would be -10 off of -16 making -26*

which is your total timing.....basically the # at the top of you map at red line with full boost......

hope that makes sense....
? 16 btdc -10 degrees total is 6 you only get into negative atdc.
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Old 05-28-2009, 02:24 PM   #16 (permalink)
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? 16 btdc -10 degrees total is 6 you only get into negative atdc.
ur right........my bad
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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this is a d16z6 oem base map:



As you can see, the value on the low rigth corner is 28.25 degrees

So Im thinking that this is the total timing, so if I ran 10 psi of boost at 1 degree retarded per psi of boost , my total timing is gonna be 18.25

Im rigth ???
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuse View Post
What ditch the vac or lock the timing? I ditched the vac because I was dumb at the time. Its good to run more timing at cruise then compared to wot. Locking the timing sounds strange to me and makes starting the car a bitch. You are basically runing pre ignition till about 3500 rpms bad for low end. I think people just do it for the easy way out less stuff to brake no springs no weights no vac advance. It works ok for drag and off road cars but not so much on the street.

Still its a old school thing even the v8s have moved into the tuning world.
How you like a certain 10 second D15 powered CRX was set up?

Locked timing with a retard chip below 4000 rpm for easy starting.
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:19 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kit88 View Post
this is a d16z6 oem base map:



As you can see, the value on the low rigth corner is 28.25 degrees

So Im thinking that this is the total timing, so if I ran 10 psi of boost at 1 degree retarded per psi of boost , my total timing is gonna be 18.25


Im rigth ???


Bump for a response
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Old 05-29-2009, 06:30 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kit88 View Post
Bump for a response
Hondata has 30.25* vs Chrome's 28.25* for the stock p28 map. Make's me wonder how they came up with these "stock" maps.

You're correct assuming your base timing is correct.
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