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Old 05-12-2009, 06:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Datalogging needed?

just wanted to know if datalogging is really needed to tune a car? can you tune a car with just a wideband and emulator? only reason im asking is because i can not get my datalogger to work i tried switching the wires but still nothing, this is on freelog(1.0.93) i can pass the loop back test but not the sanity.
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You don't really NEED data logging, but it makes for a much more reliable and easier for the tuner.
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:05 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OMGVtec View Post
You don't really NEED data logging, but it makes for a much more reliable and easier for the tuner.
OK, I'll bite. If you don't have data logging, how are you going to know what the WB is reading at any particular RPM and Throttle Position? If you're going to guess, you might as well not use the wide band, and if you're not using the WB, why tune at all....
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:16 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thats not necessarily true, but still why not just get data logging.

If you chipped you own ECU for instance Moates/Xeno send you the 'port' for it with their chipping kits. So really if you can't 'splurge' for the $2X.00 cable, you shouldn't really be boosting your car.
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OMGVtec View Post
Thats not necessarily true, but still why not just get data logging.
No really, how are you going to adjust the cells in you fuel maps if you don't know what your WB is reading. Guess? Remember it was "about 12.4"? You need to datalog that stuff.
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
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if your tuning your own car then yes but then again anyone would benefit from data logging.
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:50 AM   #7 (permalink)
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if your tuning your own car then yes but then again anyone would benefit from data logging.
pretty much
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:53 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I tuned my car with just a wideband and my Zdyne. Yes i would LOVE to have datalogging but it's not possible with my Zdyne. Took a few days but it's running great now. Gotta pull the plugs alot to inspect them. I just made small adjustments, never anything large or broad. I noticed yesterday i was getting a little detonation, so i went to a colder plug and pulled a little more timing and it's much better now. It can be done, just takes longer.
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:57 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Well with Turboedit you can just connect ports for the wideband and still have datalogging as an option but I don't see it as a necessity. It just provides a gauge for the WB which you can buy seperate and use an ostrich to tune on the fly
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Old 05-13-2009, 07:28 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted_zc View Post
I tuned my car with just a wideband and my Zdyne. Yes i would LOVE to have datalogging but it's not possible with my Zdyne. Took a few days but it's running great now. Gotta pull the plugs alot to inspect them. I just made small adjustments, never anything large or broad. I noticed yesterday i was getting a little detonation, so i went to a colder plug and pulled a little more timing and it's much better now. It can be done, just takes longer.
If your reading your plugs, then you're tuning things the old school way. That works just fine, but you are certainly not taking advantage of your wide band. You don't need datalogging on general, but to tune your car and take advantage of all this technology, you need datalogging.
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Old 05-13-2009, 07:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn View Post
If your reading your plugs, then you're tuning things the old school way. That works just fine, but you are certainly not taking advantage of your wide band. You don't need datalogging on general, but to tune your car and take advantage of all this technology, you need datalogging.
i agree , reading plugs is not a sure fire way to tell if your tune is on, technically even a wide band in a collector isnt always correct since its reading the average from all 4 cyl, with the plugs you could have a nasty lean spot and a nasty rich spot and the plugs will show u rich, for the wide band you can have 2 rich cyl and 2 lean and think your ok, now granted the only true way to be sure is to measure the exhaust temp in each cyl. between a wide band and plug reading you can , now a wide band tied into a data logger is at least ideal because you can play back the log and see if you have any rich or lean spots at any certain load and rpm and then adjust only that cell or cells only rather then guess and add or take away across the entire map.
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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thanks for some of the input.. its not that i dont want to datalog i just cant get it to work for me, the cable is brand new from xenocron and i tried switching the wires around but nothing seems to work. i can pass the loopback test just fine but cant pass the sanity. i dont really mind if it takes a bit longer to tune without datalogging just as long its somewhat safe, im just really sick of seeing the car sit for so long.
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:46 PM   #13 (permalink)
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is j12 cut inside your ecu?
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Who's tuning your car? I will repeat my question for OMGVtec since he seems to know it all. How are you going to adjust the cells in your fuel map if you don't know what your AFR is for the cell?

I wish I knew what was wrong with your datalogging. The answer is to fix that first. If you are planning on tuning yourself, I don't know how else you would do it, except by trial and error. (and reading the plugs as previously noted)
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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i have tuned in the past and am tuning the integra now without datalogging. i just watch the gauges (vac/boost, wideband, rpm) and then adjust accordingly. it's definitely a lot slower, but you can get the job done easily enough.
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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yeah j12 is desoldered. ima be tuning myself since all the tuners are way too far and since i built the car ground up by myself i thought i might as well learn how too tune too..i bought the beginners tuning package from xenocron got everything to work for me just not the datalogging i was thinking it may be a bad cable but i can pass the loopback test on freelog so im not to sure.oh and i took a multimeter to the cn2 pins and got
#1-.02v
#2-4.93v
#3-4.93v
#4-.03v
is that right? i thought #1 should be a ground
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:34 PM   #17 (permalink)
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i have tuned in the past and am tuning the integra now without datalogging. i just watch the gauges (vac/boost, wideband, rpm) and then adjust accordingly. it's definitely a lot slower, but you can get the job done easily enough.
I give! I just can't imagine having all the technology to really do it right and then not use it. I guess it comes from having changed jets, shimmed metering rods, and read plugs. Modern tuning is so much more precise. I guess at least your using a WB.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:44 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Just take a deep breath and stare at your siggy. You'll still be seeing red but in a happy kinda way.

I do agree though. Find out why you're unable to datalog and then go from there. It'll allow you to get your tune alot more precise. I assume you're starting w/ a basemap already somewhat set for your build?
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn View Post
If your reading your plugs, then you're tuning things the old school way. That works just fine, but you are certainly not taking advantage of your wide band. You don't need datalogging on general, but to tune your car and take advantage of all this technology, you need datalogging.
Are ya not reading my post entirely?? Believe me i want datalogging so i could fine tune the hell out of it but it's not an option with my ancient Zdyne. Yeah i could update to OBD1, yeah i could get new software, yeah monkeys could fly out of my ass... the problem with the first 2 is they cost money, something i'm just plain out of these days. Being a contractor isn't very lucrative when no one has money to spend. I'm not relying on pulling the plugs as my main source of tuning, just a little added info that's all.
I also do multiple pulls at varying rpm's and boost levels, all my gauges are right next to each other so it's easy to make note of any discrepancies. And like i mentioned earlier, i make small changes, it's worked for me so far. Once people start spending money i can start dropping coin around like it's going out of style, until then i have kids to feed and they always come first before the car.
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:22 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted_zc View Post
Are ya not reading my post entirely?? Believe me i want datalogging so i could fine tune the hell out of it but it's not an option with my ancient Zdyne. Yeah i could update to OBD1, yeah i could get new software, yeah monkeys could fly out of my ass... the problem with the first 2 is they cost money, something i'm just plain out of these days. Being a contractor isn't very lucrative when no one has money to spend. I'm not relying on pulling the plugs as my main source of tuning, just a little added info that's all.
I also do multiple pulls at varying rpm's and boost levels, all my gauges are right next to each other so it's easy to make note of any discrepancies. And like i mentioned earlier, i make small changes, it's worked for me so far. Once people start spending money i can start dropping coin around like it's going out of style, until then i have kids to feed and they always come first before the car.
I did read your post and I do understand your dilemma. (Although I'm not a contractor, I understand that dilemma too). I do see how you can tune with out data logging now. You are probably better off switching to Turbo Edit and going with one of the free data loggers at this point. That wouldn't even be that expensive a deal. Good luck to all of us when it comes to the economy
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