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Old 03-31-2009, 01:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default The Illusive Surging Idle.

Hey guys, I'm new to the forums, figured I'd start out with the age-old surging idle topic...

I've read many posts on several forums about this, all somewhat similar to my problem. Seems lots of people deal with this issue..

I have a 97 LX d16y7. Daily Driver.

Had it for about 6 years now, no problems, old guy ran great.
I changed an o2 sensor about 5 years ago. When I took off the heat shield I noticed the exhaust manifold had a very small hairline fracture in it... right in the middle of the center 2 ports.. had a buddy tig weld it. Didn't seem to do much, but it didn't effect the driving quality, so I left it be.

About a month ago, I got a CEL throwing codes all over the place..
And when the car would idle, the idle would surge from 1000-3000, erratically.
Brought it to a buddy of mine with a a code reader: PCV, IACV, MAP, TPS, o2-1. He suggested we just do a tune up... Turns out one spark plug was deadski... and another was misfiring pretty bad... So we replaced all the plugs, plug wires, d-cap, PCV valve, blah blah... went ahead and changed the oil, was aboot due for one.

Soon as I left, car ran great, ECU was reset, no CEL.
First red light... car idled down to about 200 RPM and died out.
And maintained that silly business until I got home.
Parked it. Few hours later, started it up on a cold idle... CEL came back, and the idle surged violently from about 1000-4000 now, car shaking badly.

What I've tried since then:
Cleaned my IACV and TB with TB cleaner, and burped the coolant lines.
Both gaskets were fine, went ahead and reused them... Looked around for new ones, no auto parts store had them in stock. Didn't even carry the IACV gasket.

After the cleaning.. He ran a bit better for a while... I reset the ECU and ran an idle relearn... For about 15 minutes, just let him idle... while he idled pretty rough, erratic still, but MUCH less noticable.. probably between 700-1200, and not on a surge, just an indecisive idle.
Car smokes from exhaust on rev now post cleaning. Thought it might be due to a little coolant spilling inside the intake manifold, yet I cleaned it out and dried it with a towel.

CEL came back, surge is back...

BAH! I'm getting frustrated. Any advice? I'm about to literally replace all the vacuum lines, exhaust manifold, TB, IACV, and MAP sensor..

Also, other than basic automotive knowledge, my mechanical experience is limited to my car, and what I've learned working on it. There's a lot I don't know. If you guys can give me some pointers as to eliminate this bugger of an issue, would be grand. =)
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Old 05-02-2009, 04:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
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THE END OF ALL Idle Surge - Bounce - etc Problems Thread - Honda-Tech helped me maybe it can help you
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Old 05-02-2009, 01:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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you spelled elusive wrong
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Old 05-03-2009, 01:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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you spelled elusive wrong
Oh wow you're so smart and helpful. How long you been working on cars....1....maybe 2 years?
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Old 05-03-2009, 02:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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and your the one trying to up your post count defending people on moot points just so you can view the for sale forum... douche bag. sorry to the original poster.

but, to answer the question, theres a fast idle thermo valve mounted to the bottom on the throttle body, take it off and reassemble the insides and boom, its fixed.
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Old 05-04-2009, 01:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SOHC_Rules View Post
and your the one trying to up your post count defending people on moot points just so you can view the for sale forum... douche bag. sorry to the original poster.

but, to answer the question, theres a fast idle thermo valve mounted to the bottom on the throttle body, take it off and reassemble the insides and boom, its fixed.
There's a for sale forum?
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Old 06-03-2009, 06:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Default Oy

Thanks for the help gents. Seems the surging idle has gone by the by, but I'm faced with it running too rich now, and when in gear the car boggs out when the throttle is engaged, and the car stalls out randomly...

still looking for the magical factory reset button for a fix-all...

Aye and cmgreen.... thanks for the generous help correcting a spelling error that in fact isn't a spelling error at all....
Illusive, meaning Illusory, meaning: Causing illusion, misleading, deceptive. Oy? The nature of an illusion. Unreal. Was a pun meaning the surging idle is not only Elusive, but illusive as well.... was a double entendre.
But again... I appreciate your enthusiasm.

Beginning to think my issues with the civic are multifaceted. Fuel Filter clogged, Vacuum line leaks, maybe a bad MAP sensor, and possibly and overlooked o2 sensor. Although, I've had issues with o2 before, and nothing quite like this was ever encountered.

The cracked manifold is starting to stare me right in the face... pretty sure it's a matter of getting to all the small things to fix the general issues at hand..

Anyone have any insight into the possibility of this? And, by insight, I mean... non grammatical or spelling adjustments or suggestions. =)
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Old 06-03-2009, 06:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Is that your intake manifold or exhaust manifold that's cracked?
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Old 06-03-2009, 06:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
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IMHO re-using gaskets causes even more headaches. I know they are pricey from the dealership but on most cases you can never tell why or where there is a leak in the intake tract due to this. But if your gonna re-use old gaskets, I would use silicone to seal it up properly.
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Exhaust manifold. cracked right between the middle 2 ports..... friend of mine tig welded it... to no avail... This is the factory manifold with the cat in it... I don't live in cali... so I think I might just get a factory manifold without the cat... for like 400$ less. I have a 4-2-1 header for the car.. But would have to get a straight cat (or not) and use the drilled out bung idea to trick the CPU that the emissions are correct. By raising the o2 sensor out of the emissions flow a bit. Seems far too much hassle honestly..

Oy, only reason I used the old one.... was Autozone didn't have one in stock.... would have to wait 3 days lol... I'm lazy I suppose... but the old gasket had no cracks or imperfections, so I thought it would be ok... Might go ahead and just replace that bastard anyway..

As far as the car kinda... bogging down when the throttle is engaged... since it's not constant... was thinking it might be trash in the fuel filter/line/rail? Would this have anything to do with an erratic idle? or stalling out periodically?
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOHC_Rules View Post
and your the one trying to up your post count defending people on moot points just so you can view the for sale forum... douche bag. sorry to the original poster.

but, to answer the question, theres a fast idle thermo valve mounted to the bottom on the throttle body, take it off and reassemble the insides and boom, its fixed.
1997 Honda Civic LX Sedan. D16Y7. I have no FITV. Only a IACV.
I cleaned out the TB and IACV with STP TB cleaner. Dried both with a hair dryer before reinstalling.. This seemed to have fixed the surging idle issue... but now I'm barraged with countless other smaller problems lol..
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Old 06-05-2009, 04:22 AM   #12 (permalink)
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what other problems? haha and that was some sweet grammatical ownage.
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Old 06-15-2009, 02:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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issues now:

1.) Nasty idle. Erratic. Sputters a lot.. Smokes from exhuast on rev.
2.) Boggs down on throttle. Seemingly a vacuum leak, but have yet to find one.
3.) Stalls out on clutch release or from too low of an idle on warm idle.

starting to get annoyed.

Thinking about going Pro-Consumer and taking it to an all too expensive shop to have it "looked at."
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Old 06-27-2009, 12:00 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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When searching for vacuum leaks or others, use carb and choke cleaner. Buy the big cans (S) to spray around the lines while the engine is running. It will draw in the cleaner and affect the idle effectively helping you to find a general area of the engine in which to look for leaks in vacuum system. I start in small areas and hose it down waiting for any change in the idle. When I get a change, I spray small amounts to the area trying to pinpoint it. It works for me and others. Could help, won't hurt. You get a bonus too, cleaner throttle body and intake manifold.

Try a new set of plugs if has been a while. Use an ohmeter to check for resistance in each spark plug wire. Do one at a time. Hope this helps.
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Old 06-27-2009, 12:17 AM   #15 (permalink)
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what other problems? haha and that was some sweet grammatical ownage.
Agreed

Hope you get this fixed man, sounds frustrating - i got no ideas that havnt already been mentioned unless its an issue with something really silly, As has been bentioned used carb cleaner to find leaks - super idea lol And dont worry too much about your TB Gasket and re using it, should be alright other gaskets are much more important...
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Old 06-27-2009, 01:32 AM   #16 (permalink)
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try a different ecu or look all around for vac leaks,
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Old 06-28-2009, 06:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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damn im having the exact same problems every now an then at lights the idle jumps back and forth from about 1k to 2k rpms and it seems really unresponsive at low rpms or when i first get in gear looking for someone who can give it a good tune and maybe correct this shit its annoying already
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Old 06-28-2009, 06:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
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i also noticed my car is coding over heat but the needle is on point when i hook my laptop up its reading 217 degree's
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Old 06-29-2009, 09:20 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOHC_Rules View Post
and your the one trying to up your post count defending people on moot points just so you can view the for sale forum... douche bag. sorry to the original poster.

but, to answer the question, theres a fast idle thermo valve mounted to the bottom on the throttle body, take it off and reassemble the insides and boom, its fixed.
From my knowledge, and i may be wrong, but OBD1 motors and newer do not have a FITV.

OP: try to see if your cam seal has failed and if there is oil in any of the spark plug ports. If the car smokes blue while idling and idles funny I would presume that your valve seats are needing replacement. Have you checked that yet?
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Old 06-29-2009, 09:22 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azwethinkweiz View Post
issues now:

1.) Nasty idle. Erratic. Sputters a lot.. Smokes from exhuast on rev.
2.) Boggs down on throttle. Seemingly a vacuum leak, but have yet to find one.
3.) Stalls out on clutch release or from too low of an idle on warm idle.

starting to get annoyed.

Thinking about going Pro-Consumer and taking it to an all too expensive shop to have it "looked at."
Check your timing belt. If it is worn, the timing gear may have jumped one notch and that would also be a source for the problems you have been having.
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