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Old 01-14-2019, 11:27 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default D15b2 with z6 head help!

'm in the process of doing a d15b2 with Mpfi and d16z6 head swap. It a 91 crx dx 5 speed. We used all stock z6 head and intake. The car starts but we have a code 9 for the cyp or ckp not sure at the moment. When the car is running it idle high around 3k rpm. If the c1 and c2 is disconnected the car idle around 1k rpm. We tried to set timing with the idle around 1k and c2 and c2 disconnect, but the timing light will flash at crank tdc white mark. I should be seeing the red mark correct? We do have a vsm cam gear to correct the timing. But when we turn the distributor it doesn't come close to the red mark and is still showing the white crank tec mark. Which direction is cam advancing and retarding? Also when we did the timing belt we didnt change the belt tensioner because the bolt feels like binding when loosening. I didnt want the bolt to strip out of break off in the motor. I did a search and the tensioner diameter are different. Could this be our problem? And the cam should be around 4.75 advanced? If someone can lend me a hand with my problem I would greatly appreciate it. The car is my girlfriend's and it's been in her family since her mom bought in the early 90s. If anyone is local to the nor-cal bay area I can pay for your time to get this setup correct!
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Hey guys here are some photos to help with my problem.
The tensioner bolt thread did strip out so I had get a longer bolt to grab the threads deeper in the motor.

Y7 cam gear is the same as a d15b2 aem cam gear.? They key way and timing marks line up the same. I have vsm cam gear on there now and is the same as the first two cam gears.
Z6 timing belt installed and you can see where the timing Mark's are located. The car starts but idles high around 3k and I have 2 code for the distributor. Code 4&9. We already replaced the distributor and still have the codes. I think from the cam being out of time.
If anyone shed some light on my situation I would be very grateful. I you can help, we can talk over the phone or video chat. I can pay for your time!
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Crank marks
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Old 01-14-2019, 09:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
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OEM cam gears are different

1/2 tooth cam timing error that I have covered in 5,000 or more posts.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:05 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Is it a very minimal difference? The y7cam key way looks to line up the same as the aem d15 cam gear.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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"I was still running 20 BTDC with 5 degrees of cam retard (1/2 tooth error)" - transzex

so i should be shooting for retarding the cam?
I just remembered that the Aem cam gear i have was set about 4.5 deg. advanced and that's why I don't see the difference from the y7 cam gear.
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Old 01-17-2019, 12:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Retard the dizzy.

There are a scrap yards worth of write ups so you shouldn't have to ask.

Interface works fine.

Was going to make a b2 a vtec killer.

Use vtec dizzy.
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Old 01-20-2019, 03:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm using a td42u distributor from amazon.com
I have set the timing and I'm getting the red mark on the crank when using the timing light. I'm getting code 4,8 and 9. I test the resistance of the distributor and they tested fine. I have looked over my wiring and it looks fine.
When I first got it in time I had just a code 8 and casted it for a while with no luck. I rest the ecu by disconnecting the battery and ecu fuse. After starting it back up I have the 3 code, 4,8&9. I cleaned the iacv because someone on the forum said it could be related to the code 8. That didn't help any. My cam is not degreed yet for the mini me swap. Could this cause the distributor codes? I can take photos and video. I just someone with experience to lend me a hand. Thanks for your time guys!
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm guessing that the ecu or distributor would be the next step it fixing this issue. Anyone have an input?
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Old 01-22-2019, 07:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
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swap to an obd1 ecu and it should be ok...
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Old 01-22-2019, 06:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yes I'm using the p28 from a del sol, ecu has been converted from auto to manual. I have a jumper harness from obd0 to obd1. Are there any main ecu grounds I should check?
The distributor is advanced all the way toward the firewall. Could this cause the distributor to not catch signals correctly?
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Old 01-23-2019, 12:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Have you tried the workshop manual procedure for diagnosing the problem?

Measure the resistance between c1 and c2. Should be 350-550ohms. If there isn't, look for a break in continuity.
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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have you put the 104 tooth z6 timing belt on when we do mini me we use the 103tooth belt but im no expert
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Old 01-23-2019, 02:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunchboxkid View Post
I'm guessing that the ecu or distributor would be the next step it fixing this issue. Anyone have an input?
As long as you feel you are as close "mechanically" as you are going to get with timing, and it seems like the engine does in fact run, you definitely need to hunt down these codes to get this thing running right. One thing to know about Honda OBD1 fault codes is that, if the CEL is on, you almost ALWAYS have an electrical-type problem.

Honda OBD1 architecture (except for very few codes) can only report faults that have a basis in hard electrical failures.

Codes 3, 4, 8 and 9 definitions:

3: MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) Sensor
4: Crank Position Sensor
8: Top Dead Center Sensor
9: #1 Cylinder Position Sensor

These are pretty vague descriptions, but they do tell you what system/component they are related to.

They literally say "sensor" at the end, not "performance" or "unexpected" or "out of range". That is your clue in knowing the ECU is detecting something unexpected ELECTRICALLY about the sensor feedback that is not normal. In OBD1 land, the ECU has no other way of knowing anything about a component, other than what normal in-range electrical activity should look like. Component feedback loops in OBD1 were still somewhat experimental until EPA and CARB mandates drove the development of OBD2.

Diagnostics your OBD1 ECU can perform on these circuits are limited to "Open", "Short", "High" or "Low". All of these conditions end up getting a one-size-fits-all fault description. The fault description can't tell you what issue the ECU is seeing, all it can tell you is that something is up on that circuit that falls into the open/short/high/low categories.

These are the only things the ECU can check related to your fault concerns.



Code 3

The MAP sensor is a 3 wire pressure transducer that is provided 5V power and ground sources, which then outputs a signal on the "signal" 3rd wire on a 0-5V scale. As long as the sensor signal pin at the ECU doesn't see voltage higher than 5V or lower than 0V, fault code 3 should never come on. If it does, it means this signal is higher than or lower than normal. Check the MAP sensor signal pin at the ECU when fault code 3 is active, a proper in-range value will be between 0.5V and 3V, with 0.5V representing high manifold vacuum (around 25 inches of mercury [InHg] engine at idle, throttle closed) and 3+V representing low manifold vacuum (less than 5 InHg or into positive pressures). If you have any out of range value on the MAP sensor signal wire, find out WHY. Double and triple check your wiring, proper power and ground to sensor, voltage or ground shorts, etc.


Codes 4, 8 and 9

All major sensor components in an OBD1 distributor (even getting into OBD2) are 2 wire A/C sine wave generator devices. These devices generate A/C voltage as a tooth passes the sensor magnet. It is this voltage pulse that indicates to the ECU some sort of movement is occurring, and the software interprets these voltage signals to be a position of some kind.

The only things the ECU can fault for on these circuits is out-of-range resistance or out-of-range voltages.

Resistance faults can be shorted to ground/power (low resistance) or out-of-range high resistance. The resistance has to measure really high out of range on these sensor's wires to set a fault (I can't remember what the value is), that a short to ground/power or open is much more likely to set these fault codes.

Constant out-of-range voltage (like shorted to 5V, 12V or to ground) will throw off normal circuit resistance values and cause the ECU to fault for either incorrect sensor resistance or implausible circuit voltage.




Sometimes understanding how systems and components work together, as described above, can make diagnostics not so confusing and overwhelming. If you know what causes the ECU to set a fault, you can determine what it doesn't like to see. Once you know what it doesn't like, find the source of what it doesn't like and eliminate it from those circuits.

Hopefully this helps.
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Old 01-23-2019, 03:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I should also add that:

You should always have a service manual to diagnose fault codes. Schematics, fault descriptions and fault troubleshooting procedures can describe circuits in detail AND give you expected values that should occur on those circuits when operating normally. Honda does a really good job providing normal in-range electrical specifications.

I recommend using www.alldatadiy.com to access service information for one-off vehicle specific service information. For one or two vehicles, this is a convenient method of service information access.
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Old 01-23-2019, 07:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thank you guys for the help. I will be able to work on the car this coming Saturday.
I did check for resistance at the distributor plug and was in spec. I should have checked it at the ecu connector too see if my wires are okay.
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:29 AM   #17 (permalink)
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what brand jumper harness?
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Ebay jumper harness
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Old 01-24-2019, 05:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
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For the distributor we pinned it out so it shows the connections at these points on the obd0 ecu plug to the jumper harness to 0bd1. We moved orange wire and white wire from c1and c2 to b10 and b12. And the cyp sensor is 2 added wire from distributor to c1 and c2. I need to check the jumper harness and see if the wires are going to the correct location to the p28.
First photo is of a si crx ecu and second is a dx crx.
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Old 01-26-2019, 03:01 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Looks like the jumper harness is pulling cyp sensor and ckp sensor signal from the wrong locations.
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