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Old 05-15-2018, 06:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Building engine 1.5 twin carb

Gratefull this forum exists, thanks.

Quote:
Whole story with pictures is in Noob thread about the motor I'm rebuilding .
https://www.d-series.org/forums/n00b-...some-info.html
First time building a Honda Engine, but have re-built engines before, not that many though.

Hope to have this thread for questions as I go while re-building motor.

just the questions and answers, may help others in future.
So far,
Block was cleaned and rebored, new pistons, gudgeons and rings.
Cranks linished, standard new main bearings

So far inserted 2 pistons and rings, waiting on torque wrench getting recalibrated. Not yet tensioned.

Question 1
Front and rear oils seals.
One of the motors ( the one that blew up) had directional oil seals, the other had plain oil seals

Better to get same, directional oil seals, less prone to leaks ?

Question 2
If buying after market complete gasket kit, what brand is quality good ?
Or for the extra money buy genuine Honda ?

Do I need to replace the complete head bolts ?
Genuine or not ?

Thanks

------------------------------------
Cylinder head and cam not yet sorted till bottom end is all done with sump on.

Last edited by Pete578; 05-15-2018 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 05-21-2018, 02:32 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Pete578 View Post
Gratefull this forum exists, thanks.



So far,
Block was cleaned and rebored, new pistons, gudgeons and rings.
Cranks linished, standard new main bearings

So far inserted 2 pistons and rings, waiting on torque wrench getting recalibrated. Not yet tensioned.

Question 1
Front and rear oils seals.
One of the motors ( the one that blew up) had directional oil seals, the other had plain oil seals

Better to get same, directional oil seals, less prone to leaks ?

Question 2
If buying after market complete gasket kit, what brand is quality good ?
Or for the extra money buy genuine Honda ?

Do I need to replace the complete head bolts ?
Genuine or not ?

Thanks

------------------------------------
Cylinder head and cam not yet sorted till bottom end is all done with sump on.
Oil seals- OEM, felpro or victor-reinz have all been good for me, im partial to felpro just because ive used them so much, but i wouldnt be afraid of using the others. I would suggest directional unless your looking to use a vacuum pump on the crankcase, then i would suggest double-lip seals.

I would highly suggest ARP studs, although its not required it is a worthwhile investment. Seeing as oem headbolts are around 50$, and arp studs are 80ish it makes little sense to go back with stock. Definitely use an MLS headgasket though, and make sure the block and head are properly prepared for it. Ive only used OEM and felpro on all of my builds as far as the headgaskets go, never had an issue with them.

This all depends on what your application is, is this a race car that will be towed to the track? or a daily driver?
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Last edited by cervan; 05-21-2018 at 02:35 AM.
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Old 05-21-2018, 02:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
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cervan
Quote:
This all depends on what your application is, is this a race car that will be towed to the track? or a daily driver?
Just going to be a stock re-build, nothing fancy at this stage.
But I want to end up so it looks neat. Got some minor cosmetics to sort out.
Everything else works, electric windows, mirrors etc etc.
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Pete578 View Post
cervan


Just going to be a stock re-build, nothing fancy at this stage.
But I want to end up so it looks neat. Got some minor cosmetics to sort out.
Everything else works, electric windows, mirrors etc etc.
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:08 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Ok, quick progress thing.
I had to re-locate where I'm doing most of the engine build. Cleared a spare room in the house, and set up shop in there, away from distractions.
Had minor mis-hap...."murphy's law" type.
If the hammer slips and hits something, it will. I was on my last piston to insert. Was cleaning up and resetting tools after the 3rd insert. New rings were 3 feet away. When I picked up the hammer to put it back in it's place, it slipped, head of hammer hit the table, then bounced in such a way that the other handle end landed on a ring, 3 feet away. It snapped the ring in half. Go figure. New ring set, thankfully available, measured and fitted ok. All pistons in and spins like a swiss watch. Perfect.

Question.
The big-end con-rod nuts torque settings, book says 23ft/lb.
To me that is rather light. At the moment I got it set at 20ft/lb, all even.
Has anyone just out of caution used lock-tite on those nuts, seeing it's 23ft/lb, I'm a little paranoid they might come loose being not new ?

Thanks
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Old 05-25-2018, 11:55 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete578 View Post
Ok, quick progress thing.
I had to re-locate where I'm doing most of the engine build. Cleared a spare room in the house, and set up shop in there, away from distractions.
Had minor mis-hap...."murphy's law" type.
If the hammer slips and hits something, it will. I was on my last piston to insert. Was cleaning up and resetting tools after the 3rd insert. New rings were 3 feet away. When I picked up the hammer to put it back in it's place, it slipped, head of hammer hit the table, then bounced in such a way that the other handle end landed on a ring, 3 feet away. It snapped the ring in half. Go figure. New ring set, thankfully available, measured and fitted ok. All pistons in and spins like a swiss watch. Perfect.

Question.
The big-end con-rod nuts torque settings, book says 23ft/lb.
To me that is rather light. At the moment I got it set at 20ft/lb, all even.
Has anyone just out of caution used lock-tite on those nuts, seeing it's 23ft/lb, I'm a little paranoid they might come loose being not new ?

Thanks
i torqued my last turbo d16z6 to 23ft/lb and ran it until the rods bent and a piston melted, but never threw a rod. although 23ft/lb's sounds really low, the con rod bolts are very small in diameter comparatively. If you want to doublecheck measure the diameter and look up a thread/diamter torque guide and it should be roughly the same.
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when the turbo spins, the bullshit ends
1990 crx - 12.2 @ 119mph Sold

Last edited by cervan; 05-25-2018 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 05-27-2018, 02:15 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
i torqued my last turbo d16z6 to 23ft/lb and ran it until the rods bent and a piston melted, but never threw a rod. although 23ft/lb's sounds really low, the con rod bolts are very small in diameter comparatively. If you want to doublecheck measure the diameter and look up a thread/diamter torque guide and it should be roughly the same.
Ok Thanks.

I'm now at the stage of removing the old oil seals. I have no press, just hammers and some old screw drivers. By looking at the rear crankshaft seal, just looking at it, I may have to make some support so the alloy don't snap when trying to hit it out.
OR, use my dremel and very carefully cut the inner rim of the old seal at 12, 4 and 9 o'clock to collapse it.

Any ideas most welcome

Last edited by Pete578; 05-27-2018 at 02:15 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 05-27-2018, 01:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I usually drill a little pilot hole in it, screw in a small self threading screw and then use the underside of the screws head to lever the seal out.

That's a painful story re: piston ring. So unlucky.
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Old 05-27-2018, 03:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
I usually drill a little pilot hole in it, screw in a small self threading screw and then use the underside of the screws head to lever the seal out.

That's a painful story re: piston ring. So unlucky.
Thanks.

I looked at it closer for your idea, then pryed it out a bit with pliers, then carefully with hammer.came out.

Have 2 of everything BTY, the old motor and the donor motor, might try the PK screw method on the other.


Yeah, hammer-bounce and piston ring story, biggest worry was if a ring set alone was available. Fortunately it was, $$_minor_$$ set-back cos I wanted the complete gasket set instead.
Another pay day wait.
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Old 05-27-2018, 04:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The screw method is the best method for getting the rear main seal out. I’ve done it several times with no issues.
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:37 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Some pics so far.

In the spare room for now.

Don't know why the pic came out side ways or upside down...sort it out later.
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Old 05-28-2018, 01:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Any pics of the car yet?
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:03 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Any pics of the car yet?
I'll try this weekend, lots of set-back lately, have not done much more.
Plan is to get rest of bottom end finished with oil pump, seals and sump. Then get quotes to machine head/valves etc. It's taking longer than expected, want to get most of it done by end of winter early autumn, summer fit motor back in. That's the plan.
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Old 08-31-2018, 08:11 AM   #14 (permalink)
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OK, back on the job, had some setbacks outside of this project.
I'm at the stage of getting the head and valves sorted at machine shop.

Found complete gasket kit with new set of head bolts.
Not local, came from o/seas in USA.
Much cheaper, (freight included).

Due to circumstances, this will take me a while to finish.

I'm wondering if there is a after market inlet manifold and carb set so I can do away with all this rubber plumbing, or does it affect engine management if messed with ?
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Old 08-31-2018, 08:12 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Any pics of the car yet?
Not yet, will try to find time, car is now dusted up in shed...wait for summer to get here and hopefully some decent progress pics.
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Old 09-02-2018, 01:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete578 View Post
OK, back on the job, had some setbacks outside of this project.
I'm at the stage of getting the head and valves sorted at machine shop.

Found complete gasket kit with new set of head bolts.
Not local, came from o/seas in USA.
Much cheaper, (freight included).

Due to circumstances, this will take me a while to finish.

I'm wondering if there is a after market inlet manifold and carb set so I can do away with all this rubber plumbing, or does it affect engine management if messed with ?
Unless you plan to convert to EFI, then you're stuck with the carbs. It is common to delete the vac box, but it'll run rough in certain scenarios, such as cold start.
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Old 09-03-2018, 07:07 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Check out redpepper racing, lots of carby swaps

http://www.redpepperracing.com/forum...howtopic=49893
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Thanks

head is now at machine shop getting worked on and ready. Rocker gear is going thru the wash to, including cover, rivets are coming off to clean every nook n cranny.
Then another delay to set up assembling bit by bit.

Decided to keep original carbys for now, but will definitely be starting engine like a "bench test" before going into car. Deleting vac box good idea to I think. Deleting CAT may I add.... Just going to be my quiet cruzer, non head turner, with hidden tricks,
lol
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Old 09-29-2018, 12:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Ok, I have the head on a clean bench ready to assemble the rocker arms and bearing caps.

Tedious trial and error if first time doing this...so I'll ask the question with what I think the answer is so far....

The way I figured it, assemble the individual exhaust rockers first, bolt on bearing caps, THEN do the inlet rockers one by one with springs etc while inserting the inlet rocker shaft. ?
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Old 10-01-2018, 04:23 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Almost ready to bolt head on block.
The assembly of rocker arm etc was easy as peeing, got diagram and just follow through.
Hope to have this thing running just after xmas, but will bench start before putting in car.
Might be moving house, so more set backs....but all good.
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