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Old 12-10-2017, 06:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default SCCA STL D-series vs B-series

Hello, I'm getting into SCCA racing and need some input on what a D16Y1/D16Z6 is capable of.

Here's the rules

B. Engines
1. Engines up to 4 cylinders and 2000 cubic centimeters factory
displacement are permitted, except those from cars and engines as
follows:

The following vehicles in their entirety are ineligible for STL:
(none at this time)

The engines from the following cars are ineligible for STL:
(none at this time)

Forced induction is not permitted in STL. Forced induction engines,
2.0 liters and under, may be approved to remove turbo/super
chargers on a case by case basis. Engine must comply with all STL
regulations.

2. Manifold and cylinder head port matching on piston engines is
permitted. No material may be removed further than one (1) inch
in from the manifold to cylinder head mounting faces. Carburetor
mounting surfaces shall not be modified. External dimensions of the
cylinder head or intake manifold may not be reduced to facilitate
internal porting. Two piece manifolds must not be port matched at
their intermediate point. Valve guide material is unrestricted.
3. Valve seat and valve head angles are free.

4. Compression ratio is limited to 11.0:1.

a. In those cases where the stock compression ratio of an engine
is greater than allowed above, stock compression ratio may
be used. 1.5% shall be added to the engine base weight for
every 0.50 of additional compression ratio (e.g., 11.01:1-
11.50:1=+1.5%, 11.51:1-12.00:1=+3%). Competitor
must provide proof of stock compression ratio being greater
than 11.0:1 in order to utilize this allowance.

5. Valve lift is limited to .425 inch for 4 or more valve/cylinder engines,
.425 inch intake and .450 inch exhaust for 3 valve/cylinder engines,
and .450 inch for 2 valve/cylinder engines.

a. In those cases where the stock valve lift of an engine is greater
than allowed above, stock camshafts may be used. 0.5% shall
be added to the engine base weight for every .025 inch of addi-
tional valve lift (e.g., .426-.450=+.5%, .451-.475=+1%).
Competitor must provide proof of stock valve lift being greater
than allowed above in order to utilize this allowance.

Option 1 obviously is a b18c5, but as far as I can tell your only allowed port match intake and exhaust ports along with I/H/E and a tune. Stock 62mm throttle body and intake manifold must be used. Also a 1.8L requires the car weigh 2430lbs with driver and if using an ITR engine it must weigh 2486lbs.

Option 2 is use the D16Y1 I just bought and hope the SCCA approves it, and if they don't I could use a D16Z6. With a 1.6L the car would only have to weigh 2160lbs with driver, but I'd have a lot more freedom with modifications. Stock 56mm throttle body and intake manifold must be used. I would run a D2B setup and have talked to bad guys worldwide a little about building me a head with a custom billet cam.

Is the 56mm TB going to ruin any chance of making the D series competitive, I'd like to use a D16Y1 just to be different, but if it's not going to make a power to weight ratio close to option 1 I won't use it.

Thanks
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Old 12-10-2017, 08:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Even with the lighter D15 or D16 powered weight, The B16 and B18C5 are proven winners. Getting the D16Y1 approved will be a lengthy process. B motors might be getting restrictors, haven't heard the final word yet.

B series trans has better factory gearing options, including a small batch run of 92-93 GSR 5th's coming out soon.

Have you watched the 2017 STL Runoffs from Indy? I built the trans. in the top two finishers and had input on third place. I think I had about 8 trans. in that one championship race.

https://www.scca.com/videos/2033613
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Quote:
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Last edited by transzex; 12-10-2017 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 12-10-2017, 08:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Also, I believe Adam Jabaay got approval for the D15B VTEC....whom I also built his D and B transmissions.
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Quote:
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
Even with the lighter D15 or D16 powered weight, The B16 and B18C5 are proven winners. Getting the D16Y1 approved will be a lengthy process. B motors might be getting restrictors, haven't heard the final word yet.

B series trans has better factory gearing options, including a small batch run of 92-93 GSR 5th's coming out soon.

Have you watched the 2017 STL Runoffs from Indy? I built the trans. in the top two finishers and had input on third place. I think I had about 8 trans. in that one championship race.
Okay, I bought the Y1 just to keep the car driving, and thought I might could use it. Looks like it's B series or nothing unless they get restricted.

Not a ton, I've just seen some clips but I'll watch the rest of the video you linked.

wow...sounds like you know what your doing. I'll probably be buying a transmission from you in the future.

Last edited by k5eriescivic; 12-10-2017 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Depends on your location. I'm in Ohio and haven't been out in the shop since Mom passed away.

Aquafina on here, he is the sponsor on the Transmission section, he is located in Eastern Tenn. There are also folks we know out on the West coast. James in SoCal for example.
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
Depends on your location. I'm in Ohio and haven't been out in the shop since Mom passed away.

Aquafina on here, he is the sponsor on the Transmission section, he is located in Eastern Tenn. There are also folks we know out on the West coast. James in SoCal for example.
Sorry to hear that, I'm in north Texas.
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Old 12-27-2017, 11:21 AM   #7 (permalink)
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STL b series are getting restrictors. Eric kutil posted on his instagram about the updates. What does this mean for d series? Is b series still going to be in the top 5 ?
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Old 12-27-2017, 12:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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No spacers ready yet.
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Old 12-27-2017, 12:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Until everything shakes out, I suggest building an ITA car that can be changed to STL car with ease.

The FPR rules, so soon and quick like might just kill the Honda entrants in the class for the year.

As a trans. builder I missed the ITA jump to STL, I stocked up on certain D parts and everyone went B swap STL....

I truly wonder how many kept their old drivelines to drop back in for ITA?

The FPR (Flat Plate Restrictors) haven't even been made nor the 3/4" spacers needed and racing starts in 2-3 weeks...rules still not set in stone.

This is gonna get ugly.

And yes Adam Jabaay was on the rules (CRB?) and even had the D15B VTEC approved and was against the FRP's with proper data.

The agreed ideal fix was to remove weight from the Miatas (pigs per rules) and things would even out.

Oh yeah, Adam, a member on here and a customer of mine, also does major work with #Grid.Life and a podcast, SlipAngle.....

and other places to find him....

https://speedsecrets.com/speed-secre...dget-gridlife/
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:13 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
Until everything shakes out, I suggest building an ITA car that can be changed to STL car with ease.

The FPR rules, so soon and quick like might just kill the Honda entrants in the class for the year.

As a trans. builder I missed the ITA jump to STL, I stocked up on certain D parts and everyone went B swap STL....

I truly wonder how many kept their old drivelines to drop back in for ITA?

The FPR (Flat Plate Restrictors) haven't even been made nor the 3/4" spacers needed and racing starts in 2-3 weeks...rules still not set in stone.

This is gonna get ugly.

And yes Adam Jabaay was on the rules (CRB?) and even had the D15B VTEC approved and was against the FRP's with proper data.

The agreed ideal fix was to remove weight from the Miatas (pigs per rules) and things would even out.

Oh yeah, Adam, a member on here and a customer of mine, also does major work with #Grid.Life and a podcast, SlipAngle.....

and other places to find him....

https://speedsecrets.com/speed-secre...dget-gridlife/
ITA was originally the plan but since my car is a CX I'd have to run in ITC, keeping the original d15b8. I think only the si can compete in ITA but I could be wrong, and there's the rule saying you can't "create" a model of car.

Probably a few mistakes in what I just typed. I just remember my options were keep 72hp engine basically stock or jump to STL where you can start swapping engines.

Oh well, I have all year to figure out what to do. I'll check out that podcast, I like me some podcasts...
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Honda Challenge just did a full rewrite on their rules. They're very good changes. I'd look at NASA with the silly plate rule that SCCA adopted.
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k5eriescivic View Post
Hello, I'm getting into SCCA racing and need some input on what a D16Y1/D16Z6 is capable of.

Thanks



I think I am in the same boat. I picked up an old Honda Challenge car 1992 hatch with a D16z6. Was looking at STL, but wasn't sure if the D16z6 was or is going to make enough power.

Glad to find this forum because there isn't a whole lot I have found on building a NA D Series car. (except for cars that are still being driven on the street in a straight line, and the only answer they have is turbo)
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