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Old 12-17-2016, 03:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Main bearing bore out of round

Does anyone know the spec for the main bearing bores? Mine are 0.001"-0.002" wider than tall. This is a z6.

Last edited by rabid; 12-28-2016 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 12-17-2016, 03:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Here's an old thread:-

https://www.d-series.org/forums/engin...s-us-spec.html

And here's chart which may be relevant:-

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Old 12-17-2016, 07:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks but I'm looking for the bore specs for the block bearing housings.
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Old 12-18-2016, 10:00 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Wider than tall? I would think it was machined like that.

Taller than wide, id be more concerned about it being OOR since thats how the forces are applied to it.

With it being 5 ten thousandths out of round, is it throwing your overall bearing clearances off?

If you are really worried you could take it to the machine shop for a line bore.
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Old 12-18-2016, 03:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Eccentricity is built into the bearings. The bores should be round. For some reason I'm measuring huge eccentricity with the bearing installed. It's going from 20 tenths vertical clearance to 50 side to side. So I don't know what the deal is. I think the block is just over stressed from several race seasons. I doubt if anyone around here can line bore. I don't know if align honing would work especially since the oil pump center would be off.
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Old 12-28-2016, 07:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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For future reference, I measured five blocks and found a range of 1.5-3 thousandths wider near the parting line. So I'm going say it's probably normal for a used block and not that big of deal.
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Old 12-28-2016, 08:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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are you measuring this with a bearing being crushed in the block?
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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are you measuring this with a bearing being crushed in the block?
No, just torqued the caps.
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Here is the first good data I've found on this subject. He says that if the block is out of round it can be up to .001" at the parting line. (not vertically)

Geometrical parameters of engine bearings [SubsTech]
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I drew up I circle (2.3228") and an elliptical "circle" in cad that is .001" wider than the circle. You would have to cut off .026" from the cap and the block to bring the parting line back into the circumference of the round circle. So align boring isn't going correct this. Chopping 2 thou off a cap and honing will do nothing if the bore is too wide.


Here is a video of the best attempt I've seen at a proper line bore. Notice the blue across the parting line when they are done. The machine didn't even touch the sides. I wonder if the bearings are just flapping in the breeze or if they actually bend and touch.

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Old 12-31-2016, 08:57 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabid View Post
Here is the first good data I've found on this subject. He says that if the block is out of round it can be up to .001" at the parting line. (not vertically)

Geometrical parameters of engine bearings [SubsTech]
This is what they teach us in mechanics school as a good generic value to use. Mostly for larger pins than what a D16/D15 has, but its still a good number to use as a "ok this needs to get fixed" threshold.

Glad you updated the thread.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:06 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I thought you needed a head plate or an actual head torqued down on an inline engine in order to properly line bore it?

doesnt the head squeeze the block out of shape slightly?
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Old 01-01-2017, 04:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I thought you needed a head plate or an actual head torqued down on an inline engine in order to properly line bore it?

doesnt the head squeeze the block out of shape slightly?
We used to reckon with cast iron engines that both parts were distorted slightly, so if the block and head materials are similar, you may have a point.

Whether the 'slightly' is enough to bother about, I don't know. The bolt torque specs aren't particularly high.
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Old 01-02-2017, 11:40 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabid View Post
I drew up I circle (2.3228") and an elliptical "circle" in cad that is .001" wider than the circle. You would have to cut off .026" from the cap and the block to bring the parting line back into the circumference of the round circle. So align boring isn't going correct this. Chopping 2 thou off a cap and honing will do nothing if the bore is too wide.


Here is a video of the best attempt I've seen at a proper line bore. Notice the blue across the parting line when they are done. The machine didn't even touch the sides. I wonder if the bearings are just flapping in the breeze or if they actually bend and touch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAWAUEnAOEM
Not a bad setup at all as Kaiser makes some really nice boring heads.


The bearings shells will bend and touch since the bearing sells need to be larger than the bearing housing bore in order to attain crush. Then again, if there bearing housing bores have too much eccentricity to being with, then the shell could possibly not attain proper crush as the circumference is larger than if the bore were perfectly round.

Depending on bearing manufacturer and the popularity of the engine, there are different bearing series with varying degrees of eccentricity. Also, there are typically oversized bearing shells available so that the bearing bore can be oversized to correct a condition like this.
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Old 01-02-2017, 04:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I don't know if the circumference of the bore has changed. I would expect the bore is shorter to make up for being wider. However if the bore is overall larger, then bearing crush is less.

I already called king bearings to investigate options. They do not make an oversize OD bearing. Surprise surprise. I doubt if anyone does for the D-series.
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Old 07-06-2017, 06:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I hate to bump an old thread but did you get this engine running again? Did you find bearings that account for the out-of-roundness? I have a D17 engine with the same problem; all of the main bearing clearances are .002 - .003 inches wider than tall. It's a stock daily driver so I'm not sure if I get it line bored or not.
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