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Old 11-03-2016, 07:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
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OK let start by saying that in now way am a Honda guy "cummins 12v twin turbo questions I can answer you all day" never really played with them up until 1 year ago. I built a crx for road racing. the engine I built was a z6 with aries 11.6:1 head milled to achieve 12:1 compression. skunk lite rods DHR racing ported head supper tec valves springs ti retainers and .5mm bigger valves the crower cam 63443Z ran on pump gas 93. tuned on chrome chipped
p28. edelbrock intake 70mm tbody and plm header, so the guys I was working with were drag racers said I could run 12:1 on pump gas. little did they know 6hrs in the engine was totally heat soaked. broke all the rings killed #2 rod bearing #2 and #3 plugs melted electrodes off broke and #4 piston ring lands on the piston . made 147hp on a shit tune.
now have a d16a with dished pistons y8 head blox springs flat valves y8 head gasket. crower 63442Z cam same intake and header mage 125whp with s300vs in a p28. the car ran great last race with minor issues but not with engine. it was just lacking power. bmws would pull me on the straits I would chase them down in the corners. now my questions are what would you build high compression Na, Jackson super charger. or edelbrock turbo kit. I am also thinking about going to E85. now keep in mind some of these races are 24hrs long and I need to have spares engine etc. so I would need spare turbo inter cooler ect.... with each engine combo. I have components to build all mention above. I have been buying up all the d series parts I can get for a good deal.
what power levels do you think i can get out of the those combos. also have a full darton block with 10.6:1 pistons sitting there waiting for boost. I only need about 170 to 200hp and the car would be very competive. I feel the darton block would be over kill. but a lot of fun also. don't kill me too much I am 50yr old guy getting in to the Honda game.
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Old 11-03-2016, 01:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm running a jackson racing supercharger, and I had to go with an aftercooler setup (LHTperformance give you options) because my IAT's would spike quick and heat dissipation was difficult. I haven't gotten it back on the road though to see how effective the aftercooler setup is, but my guess is that it's not going to be as effective as an intercooled turbo setup.

For no other reason, i would think an small turbo would give you the power you're after and you could manage the heat a lot easier than a supercharged setup, particularly for endurance racing.
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Old 11-04-2016, 04:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
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thanks for the info.
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Old 11-24-2016, 02:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I'd just go with the edelbrock turbo kit idea if you can find one. Then I'd look at an efficient intercooler...maybe a lot of other cooling ideas... good luck
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Old 11-24-2016, 03:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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you dont have to buy a complete kit to run efficient its almost cheaper and more reliable to build one from scratch, a stock z6 with head studs and a cometic head gasket will hold 9psi all day with countless abuse i know this because i did one that way with an internal wastegate greddy 15g and a log style manifold. i run a walbro 225 with a basemap crome tune to dsm 440's with resistor box. half mount aluminum radiator with a ebay emusa frontmount. i have a buddy that races LEMANS with bonestock honda motors his team is RedMist and they do pretty well, ill see if he is active on the forum and have him give you some input
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Old 11-25-2016, 01:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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First, I'd like to say it's nice to see more fellow members on here that track race.

And, nothing against drag racing, but I feel like street and maybe 50-30% of drag guys don't even touch conditions near what any kind of RR guys put their car through. So they can get away with a lot more/different stuff than we can motor-wise. My buddy hit 260 oil temps on a stock B16A with intake and header (has stock oil cooler) in a single session and had to back off...

So, my first question to you is what water temps and oil temps are you hitting with your current setup? If it's pretty high as is, I would stay N/A untill you're constantly at or under 200w 200-210o. Any upgrade will raise the heat capacity requirement, and the beauty of Honda N/A is the reliability factor....

Turbo will be the most reliable, of course that is if you can manage the heat capacity since it will be probably the highest, even if you go with a pretty small tutbo at low boost. JRSC is good low end instant power, and will be enough for what you're looking for. But the SC belts are your limiting factor, and you need an aftercooler setup to keep the heatsoak down. Usually you don't hear too much belt issues with JRSC like we hear on the procharger Kraftworks/Roterx kit.

Not many have much experience with the Kraftworks kit, and the only setup that seems to remain consistent is their K-series one. But at least with the B-kit, there needs to be better crank pulley, belt, tensioner, and supercharger pulley engineering...

But IMO Roterx is a better setup than JRSC, and less heat issues than a turbo, only as long as you are willing to re-engineer a good bit... Because if not, you will be breaking belts every other session just about. But my experience are cars at ~300hp (B16B and B16A) and would not be much issue in any other setting (again, drag/street can get away with more). Also with the power output you'll be hitting, you may not be on the edge of belt capacity either (fyi, Kraftworks cuts a rib off VW belts, and won't share info about it easily). Heatsoak is more manageable, and getting "custom" pulleys that SHOULD have came in the COMPLETE kit, would be a bigger initial cost, but basically pay for itself in longevity.

There is a whole lot of debate of 93 vs E85, so I'd say that is a turner/personal preference thing. There is just heatsoak in everything for RR, that the cooling effect that the fuel has is only something a tuner can feel to be more aggressive with timing -- which is complete unesessary if you're FI with your goals.
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Last edited by Mr.Fodo; 11-25-2016 at 01:43 AM.
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Old 12-10-2016, 02:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Any chance you were loosing oil pressure in the corners? I wonder if piston oil coolers might help but I'd be wary of doing that without knowing if I was loosing pressure in long sweepers.

I'd love pics of the carnage/car ect.
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Old 12-11-2016, 09:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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If you can swap to alcohol fuel (will you have the capacity for the distance and does it fit the rules?) you can go really high with the CR, even 14:1. The engine will make at least 140whp if everything is timed correctly and you have some decent exhaust and intake components. Nice easy fat cam, like a crower stage 2 or a colt tri flow. VTEC head. Z6 or Y8 just make sure you get the correct cam and cam gear.


Honestly I hate tuning RR cars. You guys are SOO hard on your engines. I usually tune them pretty safe with timing and leave AFRs around 13:1 for mileage. Chances are you just had a yahoo tuning the car before which is why it all broke. Or your ring gaps were too tight and you popped all the pistons. IDK impossible to tell. But this time I would go loose.
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