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Old 09-17-2016, 08:12 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Colt tri-flow 2 - how to degree it? Urgent

Right, I got a friend here with me, to degree my cam. What I have from Geoff is this:

My friend here says he can't degree that cam, with the given info. Any help is highly appreciated, as I need the car.
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Old 09-17-2016, 09:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Can you post a smaller pic please?

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Old 09-17-2016, 09:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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https://s12.postimg.io/3ndcobbml/IMG...917_190509.jpg
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Old 09-18-2016, 06:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Yeah, it looks like you are hosed. About the only thing you can do with that info is to verify the specs. I think their intent is for the cam to be installed straight up or at the stock location AKA 0 degrees on the cam gear.

I assume you haven't tried calling them?
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Old 09-18-2016, 06:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I did send him an e-mail when I got the cam, that was his response:
https://s15.postimg.org/fjeziy1q3/geoff.jpg
Also, prior to posting this thread, I sent him another e-mail(didn't call, it's the weekend now), asking for the centerline, but I don't think I will get the info earlier than monday afternoon(due to the time zones, it's GMT +02:00 here). So I was hoping someone over here could chime in with the right info.
Btw, the cam is a regrind, so I would be very surprised, if it's intended to work with the stock mark, but even if that's the case, I'd still like to have it done with a degree wheel and a dial indicator.
Specs are a 100% match, you are right.
P.S. in the e-mail it says 3.5kg/mm, while it's rather 3.6, not that it matters.
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Old 09-18-2016, 10:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Ive talked to him in person about it before, just use the OEM cam gear and set it up to zero. Thats what he wants you to do.

My issue came up when I got a cam that I didnt know if it was ground on a D15 base or a D16 base cam. He couldnt tell me.
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Old 09-19-2016, 02:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I would be interested in this information also. I have the tri flow zc dohc cams and the tuner would not adjust them without the specs.
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Old 09-20-2016, 05:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I have never had a cam (or cam set) that could not be set for split overlap and be perfectly safe to start tuning from...Geoff's cams included...if you are slapping on a set of cams and you are not claying the motor *or finding some way of checking piston to valve clearance* you are playing with fire any way.
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Old 09-20-2016, 05:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Best way, but most don't have all this stuff lying around.

https://www.d-series.org/forums/diy-f...-your-cam.html
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by FarmerD View Post
Ive talked to him in person about it before, just use the OEM cam gear and set it up to zero. Thats what he wants you to do.

My issue came up when I got a cam that I didnt know if it was ground on a D15 base or a D16 base cam. He couldnt tell me.
Not really impressed with any of the regrinders out there . . . never bought a cam from Rocket but I've bought two Delta cams and degreed a Bisi cam for a guy.

I really don't think anyone has actually measured the ramps on a cam doctor and are taking into account the radius of the follower.

Valve timing events are off in everything I've ever checked. Put it on ICL and IVO/IVC/EVO/EVC are close but not exact.
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Old 10-01-2016, 09:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Not really impressed with any of the regrinders out there . . . never bought a cam from Rocket but I've bought two Delta cams and degreed a Bisi cam for a guy.

I really don't think anyone has actually measured the ramps on a cam doctor and are taking into account the radius of the follower.

Valve timing events are off in everything I've ever checked. Put it on ICL and IVO/IVC/EVO/EVC are close but not exact.
What does any of that have to do with Colt cams?
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Old 10-03-2016, 07:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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unless you shaved the head and or block , he usually says run it at 0 degrees as it performs best. exception to his tri flow 2s for the dohc zc , exhaust likes to be retarded and intake advanced. i've talked to geoff a fair amount and hes had quite some ignorant customers and run adj. cam gears and play with the timing and complain that they arent happy with the cam.
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:11 AM   #13 (permalink)
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What does any of that have to do with Colt cams?
That all of the regrinders and most of the manufacturers I know don't really care enough about the import market to take it seriously.

The fact that you can buy an aftermarket cam (or a regrind) for most any honda engine and you actually have to ask (or plead depending on the manufacturer/grinder) for a cam card is a joke.

I've never bought a single american v8 camshaft from any manufacturer that didn't come with a cam card (Comp, Crane, Howards) and I've had two custom ground cams done and both of them came with the cam card despite being from different grinders.



I used to think it was because these guys selling cams didn't want the other grinders to know what their lobes were . . . now its because I think they don't even know.

Next time anyone buys a honda cam, ask them if the events are checked at the lobe or the valve. I've had two guys basically take on the deer in headlights stare at that question.
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Old 10-15-2016, 09:18 AM   #14 (permalink)
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You just made all of that up. You clearly dont know Colt cams. Good job. When is the last time you dealt with Geoff or Colt cams personally?

In fact I would bet you have never ordered, or installed a cam, in an "american v8"


I mean you said it yourself, you have never even seen a Rocket cam or colt cam, only a few Delta cams and a Bisi cam. Well, I already know from experience owning both a Bisi cam and a Delta cam its not something I would recommend. But that has nothing to do with Colt cams. Why you would post about those products in a Colt cam question thread is confusing.
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Old 10-24-2016, 07:05 AM   #15 (permalink)
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You just made all of that up. You clearly dont know Colt cams. Good job. When is the last time you dealt with Geoff or Colt cams personally?
I don't need to deal with them to read the original post.

LAMER got a "cam card" to install their camshaft and it doesn't have valve timing events.

Clearly, they either think their customers are stupid or they don't even know the exact valve timing events themselves.

Maybe you can enlighten me on why exactly a company WOULDN'T include a cam card

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In fact I would bet you have never ordered, or installed a cam, in an "american v8"
LOL.

Always a dick-swinging contest on here.

Not only are you talking out of your ass but I'm the only one I know of on this site to make their own honda cam from a solid piece of 2" round bar in 4340.

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I mean you said it yourself, you have never even seen a Rocket cam or colt cam, only a few Delta cams and a Bisi cam. Well, I already know from experience owning both a Bisi cam and a Delta cam its not something I would recommend. But that has nothing to do with Colt cams. Why you would post about those products in a Colt cam question thread is confusing.
Because read the original post. My god, it isn't that hard to connect these dots.
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Old 10-24-2016, 08:43 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Old 11-02-2016, 08:28 AM   #17 (permalink)
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unless you shaved the head and or block , he usually says run it at 0 degrees as it performs best.
The block(d16y3) is decked 0.13mm, the head casting (d15z6 = y8 ) is milled 1.33mm. Adj. cam gear is a must, to set even the stock cam. We all know how exact are the marks on the oem plastics. Even the TDC mark on my crank pulley is 2.8mm off(new oem key, preloaded prior tightening) - compared to the piston stop/degree wheel method. Imho, they might be close enough for stock engines, but not for 10.7:1 CR, turbo and an aftermarket cam.
I set the cam to the stock marks(thank you FarmerD, once again), as I had an event, the next day, the idle at 16 deg and went for a run. I knew something was not right, as I had to pull timing, due to det.(det.cans) and lean out the maps. I couldn't feel much of a difference, from the stock z6 cam, but the logs said I am making less power. Knowing that I have enough p2v clearance under v-tec, I moved the cam gear a few deg. both ways(setting idle to 16 deg each time), with no success, so I settled for the stock mark and corrected the maps, as needed.
I was still able to pull on wrx/sti's on the straights (more in the corners), so it was not so bad.
A day or two later, Geoff responded to my e-mail, giving me the info (exh 110 int 110, C.501.S.E - d16z6 cam regrind), but I have been away from the car ever since, so I haven't had the chance to properly degree the cam.
Not bashing cams or people here - the cam needs to be set properly.
If all is fine, I will deal with it in January, when I also plan on switching to my TD05-16G 10.5T Ti, TME and a custom twin scroll ex, mani.
Oh, if someone could delete the "Urgent" from the thread's title - that would be nice
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Old 12-20-2016, 08:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Serious question: what is the point of degreeing a sohc cam? I can see the importance when you run the risk of piston to valve contact on say an aggressive build or when you want to get the cam timing close to shorten dyno tuning. Other then that what is the point?

I would think most builds using an adjustable cam gear and dyno tuning would adjust the cam timing to reflect the most power anyway right? I highly doubt even with all the necessary cam card info provided to the engine builder, said engine is degreed and then run as is. Pretty sure tuning with adjustments to the gear is involved.

Another idea i was considering was the timing belt. At least in my experience on our sohc engines, t/belt tension when cold is on the loose side. Once at normal operating temp it tightens up due to expansion. So wouldn't this cold vs. hot slack in the belt account for a degree or two anyway?

So other than getting you close to optimal cam timing, i am struggling to see the point in the time invested.
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Old 12-20-2016, 08:11 PM   #19 (permalink)
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another sub degree in variance at the crank keyway, just from rocking motion.

The MAIN reason to degree, was the cam ground on a D15 or D16 core?
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