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Old 09-08-2005, 05:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
rowitha
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Default gold top zc

is the gold top zc any good or different from the black top? and if i get this motor...it needs an intake manifold and a wire harness i dont know what to do with the intake aand all...will my dual point stuff work or no?
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Old 09-08-2005, 07:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The only physical differences between the two are: the brown tops have thicker rods, but not necessarily stronger ones, squared off IM, vacum advance system, and, of course, a brown valve cover These are ideal for the CRX swap since there's no conversion needed.

The black top has a rounded IM, electronic advance (so you'll have to convert to MPFI for the CRX swap), and a *gasp* black valve cover

It'd help to know what your intentions are so we can reccomend one over the other as well
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Old 09-09-2005, 03:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
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so i could put all my existing intake mani and everything on...like all my dual point stuff? and i know this will probably effect hp wont it?
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Old 09-09-2005, 05:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FooSchnickens
The only physical differences between the two are: the brown tops have thicker rods, but not necessarily stronger ones, squared off IM, vacum advance system, and, of course, a brown valve cover These are ideal for the CRX swap since there's no conversion needed.

The black top has a rounded IM, electronic advance (so you'll have to convert to MPFI for the CRX swap), and a *gasp* black valve cover

It'd help to know what your intentions are so we can reccomend one over the other as well

unless its a 91 si, then you shouldnt have to do anything except some minor harness "adjustments" my 91 crx si has the mpfi IM (and its rounded)
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Old 09-09-2005, 11:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
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so if i take all my dual point stuff i can put it on there without it effecting hp...all i have to do is wire for four injectors or soemthing like that?
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Old 09-10-2005, 05:31 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rowitha
so if i take all my dual point stuff i can put it on there without it effecting hp...all i have to do is wire for four injectors or soemthing like that?

lol there is no gold top unless u mean brown top zc?the brwon top zc blows balls the black top is better.if your valve cover is gold someone must have painted it that color
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Old 10-09-2005, 09:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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First off just to let you know the intake manifold wont fit the bolt pattern on the head is different, the only other stock honda/acura intake mani that will work is the 88/89 teg. To wire it up for mpfi it took me bout 2 hours and you have to modify both engine and in dash harnesses and run a mpfi ecu like pg6/pm7/pr4 for example......good luck with it
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Old 10-12-2005, 10:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOHCef8si
lol there is no gold top unless u mean brown top zc?the brwon top zc blows balls the black top is better.if your valve cover is gold someone must have painted it that color
THERE IS A F*&^ING GOLD TOP they came in gen1 crx and civics i know because i friggen owned one im sick of american forums saying they dont exist. They are very different from black tops , the heads are different , the pistons have a 3cc dome not a 7cc dome like pm7's , the cam pedestils are different , rods are pretty similar and they produce close to 120hp.
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Old 10-13-2005, 09:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
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There is 1 kind of brrown to and 3 kinds of black top dohc zc's


the only physical differences on the browntop

the rods are thicker but are made from a weaker alloy
the pistons are dished not domed
the intake manifold is different but is the same bolt pattern
the dizzy and cyl1 sensor are different but are the same bolt patterns...

Basically the block itself, crank, and head is all the same

If you put in blacktop pistons/rods and a blacktop intake manifold/dizzy/cyl 1 sensor

You would have a blacktop ZC

Now if the valvecover is brown and the intake manifold has a squarish appearence to it........its a browntop

Now swapping this into any other car other than a 85-87 civic/crx or 86-87 integra would be complete waste of time since there other zc's that produce more power and are direct "bolt in's" in other models...

If you have a 88-91 civic/crx than get a blacktop ZC

its ten times more worth it and the motor/tramnny mounts are the same...

But just remember to get the zc with the valvecover bolts on the outside of the valve cover........

the blacktops with the valve cover bolts on the inside right next to the sparkplugs are integra zc's and are worthless to you unless ytou have a g1 teg or g1 crx/g3 civic
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Old 10-24-2005, 09:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trench_Rat
THERE IS A F*&^ING GOLD TOP they came in gen1 crx and civics i know because i friggen owned one im sick of american forums saying they dont exist. They are very different from black tops , the heads are different , the pistons have a 3cc dome not a 7cc dome like pm7's , the cam pedestils are different , rods are pretty similar and they produce close to 120hp.

Ha ha hey man (doo0T!doo0T! here)
I'll have to back you up here Trench, Brown top/gold top is the same shit and they are totally different to a 2nd gen black top.
Even the block is different.
The crank girdle is the same thats about it.
The head is different, the intake manifolds different, it has a dual butterfly system, the cams dont interchange, the rods are heavier, the pistons are dished, the sump windage tray is different, the oil pick up is different, the bellhousing is different, the engine mount points are different.
The rocker covers are different, the distributers are different, the cam pullies are bigger.
They are two quite different engines, they share a few parts thats all.

Same crank, same girdle, same bore diameter same stroke, same flywheel, I'm pretty sure same valves and lifters too.
That about sums it up.

The only exeption is in the last of the facelift 1st gen JDM integras, they had a cross over engine that had the brown top block and head with a proper internal coil dizzy, a decent single TB inlet manifold and a black rocker cover. It actually produced the highest HP of any ZC but was short lived and now rare as rocking horse shit.
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Old 10-25-2005, 11:31 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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finally someone here who can verify that im not talking out my arse , i was about to reply to your other post about the forgies saying i new a guy who was doing the same build then i realised it was you lol
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Old 10-25-2005, 04:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trench_Rat
THERE IS A F*&^ING GOLD TOP they came in gen1 crx and civics i know because i friggen owned one im sick of american forums saying they dont exist. They are very different from black tops , the heads are different , the pistons have a 3cc dome not a 7cc dome like pm7's , the cam pedestils are different , rods are pretty similar and they produce close to 120hp.
so its like a bit smaller versoin of the zc??any yall in new zealand know anything bout the rover zc i havent seen to much on this one.

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Old 10-25-2005, 06:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOHCef8si
so its like a bit smaller versoin of the zc??
Same physical size and capacity, just a different design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOHCef8si
any yall in new zealand know anything bout the rover zc i havent seen to much on this one.
Dont think we got it here, the only 1.6 rover we had was a Rover Kseries powered one (same family engine as the lotus elise)
A great little motor, proper split crank case with head studs that went right through to the crank girdle. Hydralic buckets straight onto the cams and light as a feather. Pity they never made a stove-hot version. It was single carb!
Possibly also the honda concerto rover equivalent as well but I'm not sure what powered it.
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Old 10-25-2005, 09:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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as far as i know we never got that rover version although i have seen an ef3 than had one in it i never got a chance to talk to the guy though so i have no idea were it came from or even if it was just the cam cover onto a black top
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Old 10-27-2005, 05:49 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDMEF7
Same physical size and capacity, just a different design.



Dont think we got it here, the only 1.6 rover we had was a Rover Kseries powered one (same family engine as the lotus elise)
A great little motor, proper split crank case with head studs that went right through to the crank girdle. Hydralic buckets straight onto the cams and light as a feather. Pity they never made a stove-hot version. It was single carb!
Possibly also the honda concerto rover equivalent as well but I'm not sure what powered it.
hum?well here some pics of guy see if u guys ever seen the valve cover????its seems to be strong as hell.i have read in few places this is 138 hp zc but im not sure never been on dyno.the egnien code is D16A8.let me know if yall know anything eles about it.btw its in a 91 crx si


http://www.thezcr.com/gallery/showph...00/ppuser/2057

http://www.thezcr.com/gallery/showph...00/ppuser/2057
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Old 10-27-2005, 05:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
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and i know it isnt smaller but it meant less hp version smaller pistons and shit like that.
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Old 10-27-2005, 07:46 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOHCef8si
hum?well here some pics of guy see if u guys ever seen the valve cover????its seems to be strong as hell.i have read in few places this is 138 hp zc but im not sure never been on dyno.the egnien code is D16A8.let me know if yall know anything eles about it.btw its in a 91 crx si ]
Yeah I've seen them before in pictures, just not in real life.
D16a8 is a 9.5:1 compression Dohc 1600 with cat converter.
D16a9 is a 9.3:1 compression DOHC 1600 without a cat converter.
Honda code is P29 for the OBD1 92 onwards versions.
Same Hp out put.
the differnce in compression is because of a gasket thickness differnece between the two.
They lowered the compression of the D16a9 so it wouldn't out perform the D16a8 which was stifled with a cat converter.
They are not just Rover, my engine in My CRX at the moment is a '94 D16a9 from a honda civic EG GTi NZDM
I dont think the euro specs ever saw 139hp but there is a bt of controversy over ZC outputs around the world.

Piston bores and stokes are all the same on all D16a and ZC's from all generations 75mm bore 90mm stroke
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Old 10-28-2005, 11:10 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
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ok which in your opinon is a better motor.btw im not useing a catand have 2 1/4 with my d16a8.useing pm7 ecu
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Old 10-30-2005, 01:19 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOHCef8si
ok which in your opinon is a better motor.btw im not useing a catand have 2 1/4 with my d16a8.useing pm7 ecu
You mean what is the best DOHC D series? Or which is better out of the A9 and the A8?
I would prefer the A8 over the A9 because of the extra compression. What you have sounds fine though .

By the way you should change your user name to DOHCef7si, ef8's are B series and they're SiR's
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Old 10-31-2005, 10:51 AM   #20 (permalink)
 
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well here in the states the ef sires doesnt exsits.its a ed9.and
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