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Old 03-20-2015, 06:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default ZC/D16A1 with 4g63 valve springs

The springs I'm using are Brian Crower BC1100

They have a larger O.D. then the honda springs.
Stock
BC1100

There are three places that need clearanced on a majority of the valves and one spot on a couple of them.Vary little needs to be removed from these areas. Careful not too hit the collet on the cam journal. I used two carbide burrs, a 5/16 and a 3/8 and a flap wheel too smooth a little.I took a little too much off the first one.
I only have fifteen more to do. It took me twenty minutes to do the first one, the rest should go faster.

The BC1100 springs get installed at 1.5 inch, my stock springs are at 1.6 inch, so shims are required with them in a zc head.
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Old 03-20-2015, 06:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I think it's cool you've got another option for the DOHC ZC for springs, but is there any reason you're doing this? Both Supertech and Rocket Motorsports make single spring valve springs for the DOHC ZC that are affordable and work really well. It would have saved you alot of work!

But none the less,(and I'm not trying to be negative) I hope this works out as expected with good results
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Old 03-21-2015, 01:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Good work man, i love when people arnt afraid to build their engine.
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Old 03-21-2015, 06:47 AM   #4 (permalink)
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What are the installed and full lift spring pressures?

Coil bind limit?
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Old 03-21-2015, 07:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
What are the installed and full lift spring pressures?

Coil bind limit?
I have the spec sheet, Ill dig it up and scan and post it monday
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Old 03-21-2015, 08:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Did you use the DOHC ZC or 4G63 retainers? What about the spring seats?
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Old 03-21-2015, 03:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Honda retainers...
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Old 03-21-2015, 04:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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yes honda retainers, the mitsu will not work, the mitsu has a 6.6 valve stem and a honda has a 5.5mm
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Old 03-21-2015, 05:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Evanguy View Post
Good work man, i love when people arnt afraid to build their engine.
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
What are the installed and full lift spring pressures?

Coil bind limit?
BC 1100 Valve spring info
Spring Pressure:
BC1100 Seat:
Closed 1.550" @ 81 lbs /
Open: 1.000" @ 235 lbs /
Coil Bind: 0.935



Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCHONDACRX91 View Post
Did you use the DOHC ZC or 4G63 retainers? What about the spring seats?
OEM ZC/D16A1 spring seats and retainers

Last edited by flat_; 03-21-2015 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 03-21-2015, 08:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BogusSVO View Post
yes honda retainers, the mitsu will not work, the mitsu has a 6.6 valve stem and a honda has a 5.5mm
Actually sohc D series are 5.5, Dohc d's are 6.5 https://www.d-series.org/forums/membe...cture19898.jpg
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Old 03-21-2015, 08:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yeah, I don't think the rocker pads are gonna last long and the coils might stack up.

Supertech's numbers converted to inches.

65 lbs @ 1.33"
135 lbs @ .937" (10mm valve lift, 7 lbs/mm spring rate)
Max lift .457"
Coil Bind .815"

So BogusSVO, simple 10mm valve lift puts the 4g63 springs into bind?

Part Number: SPRK-EC3027S-ZC
Type: Single Spring
Press.Seat: 65 @33.8
Press.Open: 135 @10 (mm, 23.8mm)
Max Lift: 11.60mm
Coil Bind: 20.70mm
Rate: 7.00
Retainer: RET-TS66/T1+ SEAT-TS/MA18-I
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Old 03-21-2015, 10:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
Yeah, I don't think the rocker pads are gonna last long and the coils might stack up.

Supertech's numbers converted to inches.

65 lbs @ 1.33"
135 lbs @ .937" (10mm valve lift, 7 lbs/mm spring rate)
Max lift .457"
Coil Bind .815"

So BogusSVO, simple 10mm valve lift puts the 4g63 springs into bind?

Part Number: SPRK-EC3027S-ZC
Type: Single Spring
Press.Seat: 65 @33.8
Press.Open: 135 @10 (mm, 23.8mm)
Max Lift: 11.60mm
Coil Bind: 20.70mm
Rate: 7.00
Retainer: RET-TS66/T1+ SEAT-TS/MA18-I
I think I see why you think the springs will bind.

Supertech springs require a spring seat spacer, giving them a install height of 1.33 inches.


The factory installed height in my head is 1.6 inches. I assume after the three angle valve job that my install height will increase slightly. The increase in height may benefit the rocker pads.

I wonder what the bc1100 springs measure at 1.6 and 1.2
Maybe bogus can do some independent testing

Last edited by flat_; 03-21-2015 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 03-21-2015, 11:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I wonder if those seats are needed to prevent wear on the alum. head casting....and if so maybe they can be thinned to get need room for spring.
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:25 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I think the op messed up his picture captions.
It looks like he says the stock one is the one with 6 coils(on the right), and the 4g63 has 8 coils (on the left),

but thats not the case, the 4g63 spring has 6 coils and the oem has 8, they are the same height,

if the oem spring didnt bind with a stock cam, the 4g63 isnt going to with even more agressive cams if they are installed at the same height,

also if you look at 4g63 cams lift and their installed height there should be no issues in a dseries head

and the bottom retainer will stop the aluminum from being beat out, they arnt going to be that stiff, and how would the 4g63 head hold up?if instaled at same seat pressure? they have higher lift cams the our dseries and they rev to 8400 and make 600whp all the time.

i dount this will be a huge camed 8400 rpm motor,
also coil bind is at like 20mm, max lift isnt where it binds

unless the op is running some radical cams in that head he will be fine, and function as it should.

also bogus, i seen some of your other posts on some dsm forums, one from 2009 talking about different valve springs you compaired, good work on spreading the knowledge
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/4g6...g-info.341209/
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Old 03-22-2015, 05:37 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flat_ View Post
BC 1100 Valve spring info
Spring Pressure:
BC1100 Seat:
Closed 1.550" @ 81 lbs /
Open: 1.000" @ 235 lbs /
Coil Bind: 0.935
Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
Yeah, I don't think the rocker pads are gonna last long and the coils might stack up.

Supertech's numbers converted to inches.

65 lbs @ 1.33"
135 lbs @ .937" (10mm valve lift, 7 lbs/mm spring rate)
Max lift .457"
Coil Bind .815"

So BogusSVO, simple 10mm valve lift puts the 4g63 springs into bind?

Part Number: SPRK-EC3027S-ZC
Type: Single Spring
Press.Seat: 65 @33.8
Press.Open: 135 @10 (mm, 23.8mm)
Max Lift: 11.60mm
Coil Bind: 20.70mm
Rate: 7.00
Retainer: RET-TS66/T1+ SEAT-TS/MA18-I
ST likes to use a short spring, so a majority of there spring kits come with spacers just to get them back to the factory installed height.

That spacer has nothing to do with wear in the aluminum head casting.

Trans, How did you come up with that the BC springs will hit coil bind at 10mm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flat_ View Post
I think I see why you think the springs will bind.

Supertech springs require a spring seat spacer, giving them a install height of 1.33 inches.


The factory installed height in my head is 1.6 inches. I assume after the three angle valve job that my install height will increase slightly. The increase in height may benefit the rocker pads.

I wonder what the bc1100 springs measure at 1.6 and 1.2
Maybe bogus can do some independent testing
yes you have added a bit more to the spring installed height from the valve seats being cut.

IIRC the BC spring should be about 65 lbs at 1.575.

I have a few sets on the shelf, Ill make a check at 1.600 and 1.200

Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
I wonder if those seats are needed to prevent wear on the alum. head casting....and if so maybe they can be thinned to get need room for spring.
Nope they spring seats are that thick to take up space so the short ST springs will work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evanguy View Post
I think the op messed up his picture captions.
It looks like he says the stock one is the one with 6 coils(on the right), and the 4g63 has 8 coils (on the left),

but thats not the case, the 4g63 spring has 6 coils and the oem has 8, they are the same height,

if the oem spring didnt bind with a stock cam, the 4g63 isnt going to with even more agressive cams if they are installed at the same height,

also if you look at 4g63 cams lift and their installed height there should be no issues in a dseries head

and the bottom retainer will stop the aluminum from being beat out, they arnt going to be that stiff, and how would the 4g63 head hold up?if instaled at same seat pressure? they have higher lift cams the our dseries and they rev to 8400 and make 600whp all the time.

i dount this will be a huge camed 8400 rpm motor,
also coil bind is at like 20mm, max lift isnt where it binds

unless the op is running some radical cams in that head he will be fine, and function as it should.

also bogus, i seen some of your other posts on some dsm forums, one from 2009 talking about different valve springs you compaired, good work on spreading the knowledge
4G63T Valve spring Info | DSMtuners
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Old 03-22-2015, 12:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The BC springs (1.50") installed at ST rated height (1.33") open valve 10mm/.394" = stacked.

Yes, I do love the idea of using parts across platforms, just don't wanna see anything damaged.
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:36 PM   #17 (permalink)
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But hes installing them at 1.5", like they should be, why install them to the st specs? They are a longer spring that doesnt require a shim like the st's do.
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Old 03-22-2015, 04:00 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
The BC springs (1.50") installed at ST rated height (1.33") open valve 10mm/.394" = stacked.

Yes, I do love the idea of using parts across platforms, just don't wanna see anything damaged.
The factory installed height is 1.600

The ST install at 1.330 + .250 spacer =1.580

BC install at 1.500 or 1.550
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Old 03-22-2015, 08:03 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogusSVO View Post
The factory installed height is 1.600

The ST install at 1.330 + .250 spacer =1.580

BC install at 1.500 or 1.550
The spacer info was provided, hence the confusion.
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:50 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Really stiff for no real reason. The spring pressures on the Rocket springs are far, far superior to the ST and these BC units, but . . .

Show me how the stock springs are not up to the task of any cam you can foreseeably run in the engine. Stock springs have held up to nearly 12mm lift cams for hundreds of passes on the drag strip and for tens of thousands of miles on the road. The stock pieces are extremely good from the factory. Anecdotal evidence from several sources I trust show very little reason to use anything as long as the stock springs check out to spec.

I would only run the Rocket springs if I was not using OEM.
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