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Old 07-12-2005, 02:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default How to gain 20hp on Japanese DOHC d16 ZC non-vtec...

Just what the title says.
Bought my 1988 Integra about a 9-10 months ago with 150,000 miles and have since driven the shit out of it.


the engine is very weak from a stoplight, from 500-1200RPM it feels like the ignition is cutting out and cutting spark from the plugs cuz the power cuts on and off.
Compression in the cylinders is most likely very low, top speed has been reduced and all in all its pretty dead feeling. Dont even get me started about what happens when you turn the A/C on, you might as well walk haha.
Not to mention that my tranny is making horrible whining noises.

All this, of course, from my Simulated Formula 1 driving and continuous "Al Unser-ing" it around corners. As well as my many track days at Willow Springs.

So, Time to replace the engine. Thought about a b16 swap, but that just isnt practical. Way too much needed. So I looked up a new D16 is, and i can get a full engine tranny swap of a Japanese DOHC d16 ZC for $750! 133hp, 40k miles, wicked!

My one question to you is, I would really like 150hp (possibly 160hp to be even with the b16). Also, Im not a turbo fan...not at all. I enjoy my power in a linear NA fashion so forced induction is out.

How can I squeeze 20-30hp out of the ZC to get to 150hp-160hp? I do port work and engine bulding on V8's (mainly MOPARs) so I know it's possible that route, but this is my little weekend rocket and just dont feel like ripping it apart just for that.
Im wondering if it is possible to squeeze out that hp with bolt ons (also, do they MAKE bolt ons for d16's?).
Bolt ons meaning: Cams, rockers, pulleys, special intake manifold, ITBs (i plan on making some ITBs from some CBR throttle bodies I have laying around), removing some emissions equipment?

Any help would be appreciated.

Name's Tony, hit me up on AIM (vileCR999) or ICQ (12193052) if you want, too
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Old 07-12-2005, 04:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Lots of boltons. Exospeed can do a cam regrind for you.
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Old 07-12-2005, 04:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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if you do all what you are talking about with a mild p&p job + good tune, you can probably see around 20-30 gain, but you would have to dyno to see the real results
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Ok first off...... www.g1teg.org

This is a very good website with lots of user's willing to give you tons of usefull info on your g1 teg (86-89)

The forums is where its at.......

Ok

First off.....

Go to parts store (any one)

get a big can of 'throttlebody cleaner'

Use as dirrected....For some reason on the g1 tegs and ZC they have...they generally suck alot of oil threw the PCV valve due to there high rpm gearing with the tranny and always high RPM's on the freeway..

This could prove a world of difference......

As for swaping in the ZC....You need a specific ZC that you will more than likey have a major problem finding......although still possible...just difficult.

You need a blacktop obd0 Integra ZC ....It actually looks identical to Your stock motor....I mean identical....The integra ZC has the bolts near the sparkplugs just like your d16a1.....


The Civic ZC's witch your probally got your price from....will not fit at all....the motor mount is way off....and Its a Major pain in the ass.....they have the bolts on the valve cover On the outer rim....

Just In case you dont under stand.....The integra zc IS COMPLETELLY IDENTICAL IN EVERY WHICH WAY TO YOUR STOCK MOTOR... the difference is inside....

Don't think I am trying to come off as thinking your stupid or anything....I am just trying to make sure you understand so you don't make a Pain in the ass mistake (...I did exactly that in the begining...........)

and its less horsepower than a Integra ZC...

The integra ZC has 140....
Civic ZC is 130...
torque is just as comparible..

a blacktop Integra ZC with Intake,header,and exaust will spank the Vtec out of the b16 with the same mods and in the same exact car......The reason is torque...

B16= High top end gruntless loud motor that breaths well....and vtech sounds...
ZC= High torque somewhat lower reving engine that also breaths very well....

I would look for a good condition d16a1 and drop the obd1 ZC cams in it (from 2nd gen Integra from japan)

But like I said..... www.g1teg.org

It also sounds like your having a distributor problem.


as long as your not smoking oil (then you got blown piston rings)....
Clean it out.....with TB cleaner....
Get a new dizzy
Only run 91 octane with d16a1 or ZC (you can get by with the mid grade 89 on a d16a1)
.....
....

and once again www.g1teg.org <------ I can't say it enough.....


Last edited by Black Mountain; 07-12-2005 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 07-12-2005, 11:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Haha, teg whore. :lol

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Old 07-13-2005, 09:22 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1tegZC
Ok first off...... www.g1teg.org

This is a very good website with lots of user's willing to give you tons of usefull info on your g1 teg (86-89)

The forums is where its at.......

Ok

First off.....

Go to parts store (any one)

get a big can of 'throttlebody cleaner'

Use as dirrected....For some reason on the g1 tegs and ZC they have...they generally suck alot of oil threw the PCV valve due to there high rpm gearing with the tranny and always high RPM's on the freeway..

This could prove a world of difference......

As for swaping in the ZC....You need a specific ZC that you will more than likey have a major problem finding......although still possible...just difficult.

You need a blacktop obd0 Integra ZC ....It actually looks identical to Your stock motor....I mean identical....The integra ZC has the bolts near the sparkplugs just like your d16a1.....


The Civic ZC's witch your probally got your price from....will not fit at all....the motor mount is way off....and Its a Major pain in the ass.....they have the bolts on the valve cover On the outer rim....

Just In case you dont under stand.....The integra zc IS COMPLETELLY IDENTICAL IN EVERY WHICH WAY TO YOUR STOCK MOTOR... the difference is inside....

Don't think I am trying to come off as thinking your stupid or anything....I am just trying to make sure you understand so you don't make a Pain in the ass mistake (...I did exactly that in the begining...........)

and its less horsepower than a Integra ZC...

The integra ZC has 140....
Civic ZC is 130...
torque is just as comparible..

a blacktop Integra ZC with Intake,header,and exaust will spank the Vtec out of the b16 with the same mods and in the same exact car......The reason is torque...

B16= High top end gruntless loud motor that breaths well....and vtech sounds...
ZC= High torque somewhat lower reving engine that also breaths very well....

I would look for a good condition d16a1 and drop the obd1 ZC cams in it (from 2nd gen Integra from japan)

But like I said..... www.g1teg.org

It also sounds like your having a distributor problem.


as long as your not smoking oil (then you got blown piston rings)....
Clean it out.....with TB cleaner....
Get a new dizzy
Only run 91 octane with d16a1 or ZC (you can get by with the mid grade 89 on a d16a1)
.....
....

and once again www.g1teg.org <------ I can't say it enough.....

Well few things I've noticed where I fucked up:

1) I run 87 octane in it and drive the shit out of it
2) i have a brand new distributor on there after the last one's bearings seized, yet it still sounds like there may be a problem even though i dont know what
3) all the ZC's I've been looking at are for Civics.

First off, thank you for answering my questions haha. I dont even know why i TRIED on the Honda-Tech boards.
So now I have to try and find an Integra ZC, which is turning out to be very hard so far damnit!

thank you again for all the help!
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:32 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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After you do the BOLT ons, Compression (mill, HG and/or pistons) , really mild street porting (ports are already the biggest of the D's), nice tight 3 angle valve job and tuning that'll get you where you closer to where you want to be.
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Old 07-13-2005, 08:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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www.G1teg.org will provide you to the answers to any of your questions....they deal with that exact car and that exact motor...


Are you burning oil at all....

If your block and pistons are ok....You could pick up a whole head for fairlly cheap...even a d16a1 head.....just slap any ZC cams in there and you'll be happy..
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Old 07-14-2005, 02:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Integra DOHC ZC = 135 PS

85-87 Civic DOHC ZC = same as Integra ZC, includig mounting.

88-91 DOHC ZC = 130 PS

2G Integra only have SOHC ZC, meaning cams are unusable.

OBD1 DOHC ZC are from EG5 Civic's, and spec the same as 88-91. Only 3G Civic/1G Teg DOHC are any more aggressive.

If you want real cams, look up Crespo cams, new blanks, not regrinds.
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Old 07-14-2005, 04:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
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vileCR, before you ditch the motor you've got, be sure to do these things (if you haven't already)

new PCV valve
clean or replace rotor/distributor
new plugs/wires
clean the IACV
clean the throttle body
clean the fuel rail
replace fuel filter
replace injector o-rings
check grounding wires
sea-foam in the gas tank
clean O2 sensor
set timing/idle
set valve lash

That's what I call a super-tune-up, and it will eliminate the possibilities that you might have something little that's causing your problems...with the exception of replacing the distrbutor, doing all that stuff yourself should put you out less than $50, and your engine could end up feeling like new again.
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:57 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diegoaccord
Integra DOHC ZC = 135 PS

85-87 Civic DOHC ZC = same as Integra ZC, includig mounting.

88-91 DOHC ZC = 130 PS

2G Integra only have SOHC ZC, meaning cams are unusable.

OBD1 DOHC ZC are from EG5 Civic's, and spec the same as 88-91. Only 3G Civic/1G Teg DOHC are any more aggressive.

If you want real cams, look up Crespo cams, new blanks, not regrinds.
2g integras came with obd1 ZC's..........
get your facts strait.....
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:20 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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http://www.honda.co.jp/factbook/auto/

2G (90-93) Integras DID come SOHC ZC they never offered the DOHC ZC show me something from HONDA that says this is wrong and I'll bend over for you. If not GRAB your ankles.

OBD-1 DOHC ZC's mainly came on CIVIC Ferio (4DR) RTi/Si
Yes it's features on the Special Edition whatevers, but these aren't as common as the 4drs
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Old 07-14-2005, 10:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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yes they also came on ferio's But obd1 ZC's also came on the early g2 tegs....


I have seen whole front clips of early g2's with the factory pbd1 ZC's (airboxand all)

and that honda site says nothing bout g2 tegs .....it starts with the 93 integra.. which in japan is a 3rd gen integra.....
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Old 07-15-2005, 04:47 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1tegZC
2g integras came with obd1 ZC's..........
get your facts strait.....
Look pal, I said it did, SOHC ZC's. And Honda website has EVERYTHING about all gens of all cars, and there NOTHING about DOHC ZC OBD1 in a 92-93 Teg.

You get YOUR damn facts straight. And then learn how to spell. :tool:
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Old 07-15-2005, 12:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData/integra/index.html
Click it and bend over bootch

I hear so many "One time I saw this..."
no facts, can't prove chit

Crap one time i saw Jesus...
...but he was mowing my lawn
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Old 07-15-2005, 01:06 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thanks for the assist. Rep to you.
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Old 07-15-2005, 01:16 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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http://216.239.37.104/translate_c?hl...language_tools

No rep for u...........

The hyper 16 valve engine is a ZC....It has less displacement = less than a 1.8...in other words 1.6. and it also came carbed....

No b-series integra engine came carbed period

you need to get your shit strait


I hate it when people try to talk shit without looking at all the facts.......


I used to work at a shop that emported engines and front clips........

I didn't just see one..........I saw Quite a few........

amnd also just to be clear...the first technical fiero 91.9 did not come with ZC's at all..
They came with only single cam zc's and the b16....

look up the first gen Crx and compare the displacement with the 16 valve pgfi motor in the g2 intega.......You will see........

I don't need Rep.....
I only really cruise the boards for g1 tegs....


you should research all models before you start bashing.........
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Old 07-15-2005, 04:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
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We know it comes with a SOHC ZC. We are saying it doesn't come witha DOHC ZC, idiot. It seemed to us that you were disputing the DOHC ZC being in 2G Teg. This forum is about DOHC's anyway.

And I get to own you again:

The B20A SOHC was carbed.

The ORIGINAL B18A DOHC from the 86-89 Accord GXL-S was carbed, and still had 130 HP.

Those would be 2 carbed B series engines, which tyou claim don't exist. YOU need research.

and go "emport" some spelling skills.
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Old 07-15-2005, 05:32 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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Dude you are a complete retard........You cant read what so ever.......

When did I once say SOHC ZC......all I was refering to during this intire post was DOHC ZC........You are a complete retard...........
Completely F*cken Retarded.........

what are you like 16 or something..............

HOW CAN A 16 VALVE ENGINE BE A SINGLE OVERHEAD CAM

SINGLE CAMS HAVE 3 VALVES FOR EACH CYLINDER.......

(SIMPLE MATH FOR MR. 3GEEZ HERE)

3 X 4 = 12.....

12 VALVE = SINGLE

16 VALVE = DOHC







DAMN YOUR A LOSER


I bet you feel real stupid now.....


its starting to set in.....

well here more....

Read my post above....its not edited...It would say so at the bottom......just like the bottom of this post......look....

"NO B-SERIES INTEGRA ENGINE"
do you understand that what so ever....

INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
is it finially registering in your brain...........

here let me assist you some more

NO B-SERIES INTEGRA MOTOR CAME CARBED...

INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
INTEGRA
.................................................. ................................................
.................................................. ..........................................
..................
...............
..................
................
...........
............
.................
................
............

Is it finally setting in now?



well maybe when your done with highschool you'll Understand


And as for spelling.....I manage a business....I work so going online is on a limited time-frame

and I also type much more thorough messages than you.....

not just quick little snappy remarks....(highschool)

Last edited by Black Mountain; 07-15-2005 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 07-15-2005, 05:37 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diegoaccord
We know it comes with a SOHC ZC. We are saying it doesn't come witha DOHC ZC, idiot. It seemed to us that you were disputing the DOHC ZC being in 2G Teg. This forum is about DOHC's anyway.

And I get to own you again:

The B20A SOHC was carbed.

The ORIGINAL B18A DOHC from the 86-89 Accord GXL-S was carbed, and still had 130 HP.

Those would be 2 carbed B series engines, which tyou claim don't exist. YOU need research.

and go "emport" some spelling skills.
I'd figure I'd quote you now since you'll probally try to edit your message later...............................
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