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Old 02-18-2013, 12:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Best way to keep brakes cool?

I apologize if this is in the wrong forum, but I appreciate the help of this community!

I have an asphalt circle track '89 Civic DX. My biggest problem right now are that the brakes fade really fast. Within 10 laps or so. It's only a 3/8th mile oval so I'm slowing from about ~60+ to ~30 quite frequently. I am required to retain stock brakes (I use brembo rotors shhh) but that also means that the rears are drums.

Would there be any way I could rig up some sort of air ducting to cool the brakes faster?
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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what kind of pads are you running?

ya you can definitely figure out some way to duct are to the brakes. there are kits you can buy from big name places. but if/when I do it, I'm going to be using something like dryer ducting rigged to take air from the front bumper inlet and tube it back to the front brake rotors, you can cut a hole in the dust shield and mount it there or figure something else out. IT CAN BE DONE.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I want to say they were Brembo as well, but it's really possible that they are just normal pads from Orielleys. We make sure to scratch them up to get the surface coating off of them before we use them as well. But I know that the rear drums are just normal brakes.

I've been thinking that it's possible that the rears are overheating and boiling the fluid causing a really sloppy pedal. Think that's a possiblity?
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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You need real pads. I use Cobalt Friction pads. You'll need to bed them in properly (not scatching them prior to install). At the speeds you're at and in traffic, ducting won't do much of anything.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burninrock24 View Post
I want to say they were Brembo as well, but it's really possible that they are just normal pads from Orielleys. We make sure to scratch them up to get the surface coating off of them before we use them as well. But I know that the rear drums are just normal brakes.

I've been thinking that it's possible that the rears are overheating and boiling the fluid causing a really sloppy pedal. Think that's a possiblity?

no, the rear brakes are fine.

dryer tube ducting to the front brakes as someone already mentioned.

That, along with proper racing brake pads (hawk, carbotech) and proper racing brake fluid with high boiling temps (AP, motul,etc) will keep your brakes running fine the whole race.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquafina View Post
You need real pads. I use Cobalt Friction pads. You'll need to bed them in properly (not scatching them prior to install). At the speeds you're at and in traffic, ducting won't do much of anything.
Could you elaborate on bedding them in properly?

Thanks for the answers so far guys.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Why not swap the rear to disc and possibly have to use them less which in turn would lower temps?
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You can get proper air hose from any motorsport dealer or race shop. Allstar makes it, and it runs about $50 for a 10' legenth heres the part #ALL42151. Also you will need some brake ducts part # ALL42141. For pads you need a full out race pad, somthing that will handle the heat. Fluid is also a huge part of it, Castrol SRF is the #1 brand, its also around $90 for a litre. I run the same thing ashpalt oval and this is the setup I run, and have no fade issues at all
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79hilux90crx View Post
Why not swap the rear to disc and possibly have to use them less which in turn would lower temps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burninrock24 View Post
I am required to retain stock brakes (I use brembo rotors shhh) but that also means that the rears are drums.

He would have to get a 90-91 Si shell or VIN to do it for his rules.

But in general get some better stuff than the DOT3 and check all rubber lines. Make sure your drums are adjusted well.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79hilux90crx View Post
Why not swap the rear to disc and possibly have to use them less which in turn would lower temps?
The rear brakes in a oval track car do almost nothing, plus most tracks state no rear disks unless they came from the factory.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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They actually aren't too picky about the VIN matching, as long as it was an available factory option seems to be the unspoken rule here.

There are a ton of base model escorts and preludes using the 1.8L DOHC motors that only came in the GT model and a certain trim of prelude. So as long as I could argue that it was available in the Si, then I should still qualify.

I have heard the same that the rear brakes almost do nothing. I'm almost afraid to upgrade them... Wouldn't they be more prone to lock-up since there is little to no weight on the rear?
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Ive ran the same rear brakes shoes for 4+ years and they still look brand new, and have gone through 5 sets of front pads. One other thing that may help is getting some stainless braided flexlines rather than the stock rubber ones. It wont help with the brake fade, but it will make the pedle feel stiffer
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I have used the same pads in my front for 4 yrs.Dirt cars don't use brakes much.I just scrubb off my speed in the corner usually.Unless i have to use them to set my line up in the turn to pass.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:35 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Di you race a civic or a CRX? If its a Civic, none came with rear disc.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I have used the same pads in my front for 4 yrs.Dirt cars don't use brakes much.I just scrubb off my speed in the corner usually.Unless i have to use them to set my line up in the turn to pass.
I can't do that as much on asphalt, I find I have to brake straight and then turn hard versus braking and turning in tandem.

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Di you race a civic or a CRX? If its a Civic, none came with rear disc.
It's a Civic. I thought the Si came with them, no?
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
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New rotors, get up to speed (70'ish) and brake hard. Repeat several times. Park the car immediately and don't drive again until the brakes are at the ambient temp.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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ya i know.asphalt is way different.i know guys that run it up north.We battle all the time jokingly on the paved and dirt thing.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:50 AM   #18 (permalink)
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If you get a proper pad you will not need brake ducting for the type of racing you are doing.

I also use Cobalt Friction pads, for what you are doing an XR3 or an XR4 would likely be the way to go. PM me if you are interested in a set.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:49 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I checked some receipts and it turns out that I have Brembo pads, calipers, and rotors on there now. So they should be good, I'm going to replace all the lines and go through everything as well as putting that Castrol race fluid in. If that doesn't work then I'll go the Cobalt route.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Just because you have Brembo pads doesnt mean they are designed to withstand the abuse. Brembo is an OEM manufacturer so the pads you have very well may be designed as OEM replacements (i.e. not meant for racing).

Also, the Castrol fluid is overkill. I use Motul RBF600 which is much cheaper and have never boiled it, Ate Superblue is even cheaper than that and it does the job for most people.

Unless you are boiling fluid, you do not need the Castrol Racing brake fluid. Its biggest selling point is its wet boiling point. Its dry boiling point is on par with most other racing brake fluids.

If you change your fluid at least once per season and store your race car inside you are throwing your money away by buying the Castrol stuff.

Also, you are replacing the lines with ss braided lines right?
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