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Old 08-07-2012, 01:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default D16Z6-based V8 Engine Project

I posted this over on HT, but there's a lot of hate over there for the D-series, so I thought I'd let you guys in on it too since most people over there don't appreciate it.

Alright, so as all of you don't know, I've been through school for AST, Millwright, and Machinist. I've taken a personal challenge upon myself using my skills I've gained in my schooling to design, machine, and build a V8 based on the D16Z6. I've already purchased a D16Z6, as you can see here, and I'm going to use it as a measuring tool to get the D16's dimensions into CAD.




Only 157000 kilometers on the odometer when it was pulled. About 100000 miles. Not too shabby of an engine to take measurements from.


The suspension compression caused by the engine. I thought these engines were only 200lbs?


Genuine D16Z6. The first one they tried to sell me was a D15B7 with a VTEC head on it. Must've been someones Mini-me swap.


On the engine stand. Had to do it myself, but luckily these things aren't TOO heavy.

I'll be attempting my hardest to keep stock locations of things, such as engine mounts and exhaust flange locations, but unfortunately the engine is going to be about 4" longer than it used to be due to adding another bank of cylinders, as well as another timing set on the rear to drive the other head's cam. I can probably get a half inch on the front of the engine, but I don't really have any room to move back without moving the transmission back. It'll be another option compared to the overdone Mini-Me and B-series swaps, and the expensive K- and J-series swaps, and it'll give a sound that's never been heard from a Civic before.

If you have any comments, questions, advice, or suggestions, post them in the thread and I'll respond to them.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Since the block and the crank will be new machined parts, I needed a new intake manifold. My first thought was to frankenstein a Honda V6 manifold into a V8 manifold, so I quickly drew up this.



After thinking a bit more about it, I thought it probably wasn't the best idea, so I drew up this in CAD. I took inspiration from Ferrari V8 intakes, as well as the older SHO V6 intakes. I'd do the entire intake out of aluminum; the lettering raised and polished, the box around the lettering up to the sides of the letters powder coated black, then the rest of the plenum cover in powder coated red. The bottom of the plenum, as well as the runners, would be powder coated black, and the tube connecting the plenums would be powder coated red. The plenums themselves are identical, and the covers are reversible; as is the connecting tube. The flange on each side of the plenum is identical, and will accept either a throttle body or the plenum connecting tube. Since everything on the intake is so modular, it could be put in any number of engine bays and look at home.

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Old 08-07-2012, 01:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Last thing I've got for right now is a collage of all the different valve covers available for the D16Z6. I personally think that the Non-VTEC valve cover, done in a wrinkle red with polished lettering, would make it look awesome. It'd also make it look like a Honda F1 engine, which I wouldn't mind. Tell me what VC's you think I should use.



Oh, and I know someone will ask about exhaust. I'm going to be using two of the best available 4-2-1 headers. The 4-2 for the front bank will remain stock, but the 2-1 will have the collector removed from the rear of it, and the bend increased by 45 degrees as the bank has moved 45 degrees in a negative direction. The 4-2 for the rear will remain stock, but I'll design and manufacture an adapter that changes the port angle from 45 degrees to 0 degrees. Then, I'll custom built from the 4-2 downward using the flange that came with the header, and into a 4-1 collector with the front two. It'll end up as an 8-4-1 system. It'll be an engine sound that nobody has ever really heard before.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I chose the D-series because it has a reputation as a stout, reliable, long-living engine, and since I know I'll have some dimensional discrepancies, I hope it's reputation makes up for said discrepancies. Also, there may be a little bit of personal experience that'd contribute to the decision as well (Sorry about the crappy pictures, didn't have my good camera when the engine blew):







Some of you may be asking, "Why do you like an engine that blew up on you?". Well, here's why. It still ran. It still drove. It made a massive, spectacular white cloud of smoke and kept chugging on. It's the little engine that could, and a feat I've never seen another engine do.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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made the intake a bit better looking in my opinion. Took the VTEC logo off as I believe that belongs on the valve cover, not the intake. I also added some intricacy to the plain connecting tube. Thoughts?



Went and grabbed some metric deep sockets, extensions, u-joints, metric combo wrenches, and my impact from my storage unit, so I should be starting engine disassembly today, once my impact charges, with pictures to follow.

I'm also still wondering if anyone has any good ideas for precise measuring of the machined surfaces. I can take measurements using the boltholes, but I don't know if that'll be accurate enough. I'd be using a vernier caliper. Remember, it doesn't need to be perfect; this is a prototype for a reason.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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lets see what ya can do! good luck!
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I haven't decided if your crazy or not , but I subscribed.
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Can you provide instructions on how to wire all 4 vtec solenoids in parallel? I would like to hit vtec 4 times as hard, but I'm confused as to how the wiring configuration would look. Thanks
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You link all the grounds, then wire each solenoid into the spark plug wires, that way they hit sequentially as the engine fires. This creates what I like to call asphalt shattering VTEC.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:12 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Use the d17 valve covers, with coil on plug. And the big PCV vents. Gonna have to make a 90* crank shaft, instead of a 180* crank shaft. Not gonna need a valley pan under the intake manifold. U could just cut the plenums off two stock intake manifolds and make a custom one between the two runners. Also your going to have to off set the heads, because ur gonna run two timing belts one in front of the other, and because ur going to have to put two con rods on one crank journal. Just a few thoughts.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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just crazy enough to get it done, perhaps!
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Holly Macaroni!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,, I'll subscribe, but you are insane.

My input on the valve cover would be the EL 1.6 vtec. You could also add 8bagger-vtec on the intake manifold. Good luck, I will be looking out.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Ive thought about this.

I found an Audi V8 that had cylinder spacing that would match up with a B series, the idea being to put B16 heads on it. Of course it wouldnt be that simple... but it was a cool idea.
Building a block from scratch would be ideal. You may even be able to find a crank that would work if there is a V8 with the same bore spacing.

So, are you thinking cross-plane or flat-plane crank?
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I saw an engine like this once it was a V8 made out of hyabusa parts they had over $50,000 just in the bottom end. And it was in a Radical SR3 racecar. Fuckin' sexy!
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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in line 8 0_o
or boxer style 8?
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm not hating.. but why? Build a BB Chev if you want a V8, then you know it will work.

I think youre going to end up with a hole in your pocket and be less happy then you couldve been. Not to mention nothing will fit really, and will all have to be custom, which makes me realize that all you will really have from the D16 is the cylinder head, which is known to not flow as well as the B or K series, which makes me wonder.

What's the point.
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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What are you going to make the block out of?
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Have you priced the piece of billet required to machine a block from. There may be some sticker shock in that alone.

A lot cheaper way is to just make a custom crankcase and use two stock blocks milled off at the bottoms of the bores, then weld or bolt them to the crankcase.

Depending on what you do with the crank, the cams will have the lobes in the wrong place for your required firing order as a V8 with a cuneiform crank normally has pistons on opposite sides at TDC at the same time.

You will have much more to think about than what to write on your valve covers or inlet manifold.

If your going to this much trouble, why not use gen 3 or 4 ZC/D16A8 or 9 DOHC heads.

It sounds like you have not thought out the engine mounts. The two on the tranny are easy, but the on the bell housing flange will be right in the way of the rear bank unless you offset that side forward. If you offset that side forward, the engine/tranny will be to long to fit inside the chassis rail.

How are you going to get a timing belt pulley to fit between the clutch and the block. You need to drive both cams from the front which means an extension to the cam drive with support.

Don't bother with the V6 manifold. Just cut up two std manifolds and weld them to a common plenum.
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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If he can make a functioning block, the intake manifold will be a piece of cake.

OP, you should totally go with the big VTEC valve cover. Two of those'll look badass. Like twin VTEC. And you can put 2 3-stage-VTEC heads in there. Which will be 6 stage VTEC. The car will be VTEC popping all day long.
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:13 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyanide View Post
What are you going to make the block out of?
that was going to be my question also lol.

I've thought about this but only as a display not to fuction Ha! Cut 2 Blocks and weld them together to mate them with the D-series heads on top. Then I thought "man, this will need a timing chain not a timing belt" So I forgot about it..


But now I'm interested on this project. I say Go for it and good luck
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:16 PM   #19 (permalink)
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What ems are you planning to run this with? How about dimensions of tHe bottom end ie: bore/stroke, rods, pistons, bearings?

Good luck man, keep us updated on the cost of everything as well. Btw screw an IM, run itb's!!!
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built single cam.


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Old 08-07-2012, 04:20 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I have plans myself for a V8 made from two 4cylinders.

Cut both blocks down the middle of the crankshaft bore; and add dowels to all the original stud holes.
Create a way to bolt the two bottom to bottom.
have bolts connecting the two long ends of rods to each other by way of a window cut in the block.
block off original oil pump fixtures; and use one more found on a nascar engine run off accessory belts. route them to the hex key plug on either side original oil pump.

one custom cam for one side of the engine (reverse rotation)

two ecu's, two ignition systems, one set of ignition pickups shared; linked plenums with map sensor.

you can see whee this is going.

a flat 8 honda engine. it would all be about getting the bottoms mated strong, and the oil circulated to vital areas.
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