Help Needed With Turbo Bearing Housing.. From the UK! - D-series.org

Go Back   D-series.org Motor Mayhem & Suspension Satisfaction 7th Gen

D-Series.org is the premier Honda All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-24-2011, 02:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
n00b
 
xelad's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 0 xelad is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Talking Help Needed With Turbo Bearing Housing.. From the UK!

Alrite everyone, i live in england and drive a 2002 Civic EP1 (D14Z6); i know that engine code alone will probably get me a lot of 'don't bother answers' and the rest of it, but i'm hoping someone can help me with my problem anyway!

Right, so basically, my engine is a 1.4 sohc non-vtec, it is, in essance the same engine as the D16V1 from the EP2 (sport) civic, apart from a bigger bore and obviously a 'eco-vtec' head; which is basically the same as the D17A2 from the EM2 (coupe), main difference being that the D17 has a slightly longer throw of the crank than the D16!

Now bearing that in mind, most parts for the D16/7 can be used on my car in one way or another.

With my build i am aiming to hit maybe 140-50bhp, with my lump being 90 standard (sorry about the english slang!).

I am going to run a fully reconditioned Garret T2, and depending on some opinions from here and other places, i want to run K20 injectors, or H22 injectors.

Now down to my question (Clippet from a post i made on another civic forum, but it seems that an answer cannot be got apart from when you ask "y0 manz how much HP if i strap a T6 blower on my B18 y000!!!!"):

***Just thought i'd post a piccy up of my HKS Turbo manifold i ordered from america, it's quite hard to find bits like this that aren't ebay shite for the newer D-series engine (Ep1,2). I paid 120 delivered from the states which i don't think was too bad, no import charges either, build quality looks good; nice and simple just how i like. (Sorry for the shitty phone pics)







The only trouble im facing is that the flange is point outwards towards the bumper instead of down towards the floor. Now what i was thinking was if possible maybe i could turn the compressor and exhaust housing round so that the oil feed and exit are in the correct place, as i have had an adapter from my T2 to the T25 on the manifold ready to be welded up but don't really want it to be a 90 degree adapter. Is it possible to turn the bearing housing to maintain oil feed positions so that the turbo can be mounted like this:



The circled pipe is the oil feed, so that would need to be turned to face up right, i'm not too clued up on stripping one of these down yet some i'm unsure of whether or not i can re-arrange to how i would like it. Any help from some seasened vet's would be much appreciated!***

^^ As i said in that post i'm not too clued up on turbo assembly so need some advice as to whether the bearing housing can be 'turned' to re-position oil in/out's whilst keeping the same exhaust and compressor housing positions??

And lastly just a couple of pics of my EP1:

- 16" Oz alloys.
- Lowered ~55mm on budget coilovers (temporary).
- Full 2 1/2" unrestricted system from 'header' to 'silencer' <
- PLX Wideband 02 Sensor and A/F R Gauge (ready for some boost).
- Greddy eManage, not yet fitted.








Now i know it's only a 1.4 but this is more of a learning experience for me than anything, and i'm to prove to my mates that D series Honda engines are the fucking ones!

Any help with my problems or just general opinion's and or advice is appreciated!

Last edited by xelad; 05-25-2011 at 02:34 AM. Reason: Updated with pics.
xelad is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-10-2011, 02:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
02civicrider's Avatar
 
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 213
Rep Power: 10 02civicrider is nobody
iTrader Score: 1 reviews
Default

You need to "clock" your turbo. Loosen the bolts on the compressor side and turbine side and rotate the sides accordingly so everything will mate up properly.
__________________
A. You can't spell
B. Do you even know what these car's dyno at stock?
C. I don't waste money on stupid dyno's.. But here look at this one. It's I/H/E on a automatic:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Wait what is that?!?!? 105 whp?? What did I dyno at? 125 whp?? Do the math.. 125 - 105 = ???? 20whp?

D. Go back and read A-C cause you probably are still clueless.
02civicrider is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-15-2011, 04:02 AM   #3 (permalink)
n00b
 
xelad's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 0 xelad is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Thanks mate, i did figure this out after a couple of minutes of fiddling about! Took me longer to write that post lol.

Your car looks good running some nice power.
xelad is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2011, 06:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
wise in the ways of the D
 
a5hatch's Avatar
 
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 1,757
Rep Power: 15 a5hatch is hot as a volcanoa5hatch is hot as a volcano
a5hatch is hot as a volcano
iTrader Score: 14 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xelad View Post
Thanks mate, i did figure this out after a couple of minutes of fiddling about! Took me longer to write that post lol.

Your car looks good running some nice power.
Welcome man!

clocking the turbo is pretty common, had to do it on all my turbo builds Ive done.

Just make sure it spins freely once you re-tighten the bolts (obviously) and your set!
__________________
D16B Turbo
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

377WHP 292Lbs TQ

Quote:
Sir, how the eff do you rebuild oil?
a5hatch is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-21-2011, 09:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
D-Series cadet
 
monster d's Avatar
 
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Murfreesboro TN
Posts: 344
Rep Power: 9 monster d is obviously a regularmonster d is obviously a regularmonster d is obviously a regularmonster d is obviously a regularmonster d is obviously a regularmonster d is obviously a regularmonster d is obviously a regularmonster d is obviously a regular
iTrader Score: 5 reviews
Default

Man I like that mani, where did you say you got it from? Also you should get a build thread up!
__________________
V-Tec Just kicked in yo!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
for life
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Burner!
monster d is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-04-2011, 04:25 AM   #6 (permalink)
n00b
 
xelad's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 0 xelad is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Sorry for the late reply, i didn't think anyone was really interested so i hvan't checked in a while! I got the Mani off ebay, build quality seems good and for the price i paid delivered from your side of the pond was a bargain! Here is a link:

HKS Cast Iron Turbo Exhaust Manifold 01-03 Civic D17 | eBay

He doesn't seem to have any left though.... Might be worth emailing him if you really want one!

I will get a build up soon, just had my laser cut flanges back from down the road, it took 2 months so i got them free too! But no i have them back i can sort the adaptor out for the turbo to mani.

Does anyone know what ECU's can be run on this ECU in the EP/EM2, as far as i know from researching about it, i would need a Type R (EP3) ECU first, then have KPRO or K100 fitted to that; all of that plus a decent tune will cost me in excess of 1000 :\

Also what size injectors should i be looking at if im shooting for 140-50~ BHP?
xelad is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-04-2011, 08:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
All powerful D-series member
 
speedfoos's Avatar
 
iTrader: (22)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Fatalville, NC
Posts: 3,608
Rep Power: 25 speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!
speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 22 reviews
Default

RSX-S injectors will fit your build and work just fine for your power goals. They are good to about 180whp on that platform. The drop right in, clips are identical and you just need longer studs (or bolts) for the fuel rail.

In regards to engine management.....I would think kpro would work on that platform, but can't guarantee because I haven't seen an ECU pinout for your motor. You'd have to get one and then compare the two to see what would have to be moved to get it to run right.

Other than kpro you would have to run a piggyback EMS like the AEM FIC, PCS-XFC, or e-Manage. FWIW, Hondata will not give you any customer support on kpro since its not designed for your application.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
speedfoos is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-04-2011, 09:54 AM   #8 (permalink)
n00b
 
xelad's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 0 xelad is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

What flow rate are those injectors?? I have eManage with the injector and ignition harness, but don't want to be fighting the ECU adjustements with it.
xelad is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-04-2011, 10:57 AM   #9 (permalink)
All powerful D-series member
 
speedfoos's Avatar
 
iTrader: (22)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Fatalville, NC
Posts: 3,608
Rep Power: 25 speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!
speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 22 reviews
Default

310cc.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
speedfoos is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-04-2011, 11:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
n00b
 
xelad's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 0 xelad is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Ah perfect size then! Currently going for these:

honda civic type r k20 fuel injector's | eBay

Same injector though aren't they?

I'm also half way through modifying a D16Z6 Inlet manifold to fit my engine as the one i have is the crappy plastic one with the upward facing Throttle body.

In terms of running an oil feed to the turbo, do i need to run a restrictor? It's an OEM Audi item, and the inlet and outlet fittings are from the OEM set up still, but they do not appear to have a restrictor?
xelad is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-05-2011, 04:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
All powerful D-series member
 
speedfoos's Avatar
 
iTrader: (22)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Fatalville, NC
Posts: 3,608
Rep Power: 25 speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!
speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 22 reviews
Default

If the turbo still has the OEM fittings, it should be fine. Is it water cooled? If so, you may need to run an restrictor, but I would head to a breaker yard and have a look at one still installed before making any decision.

Those injectors should work.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
speedfoos is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-05-2011, 06:19 AM   #12 (permalink)
n00b
 
xelad's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 0 xelad is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

No oil only, i'll go have a stop by the scrappy tomorrow and see if theres any in there.

Cheers for answering my questions mate, people rarely take an interest!
xelad is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-05-2011, 06:29 AM   #13 (permalink)
All powerful D-series member
 
speedfoos's Avatar
 
iTrader: (22)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Fatalville, NC
Posts: 3,608
Rep Power: 25 speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!
speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 22 reviews
Default

If its oil only, don't run a restrictor as it will need all the oil it can get since it performs the double duty of both lubrication and cooling.

I know what you're going through having built a turbo D17 while stationed in the UK. If its not a K20, Cosworth or a Mini, when you ask someone if they can do something with an odd car, their eyes roll and you get a "Can't do that mate." Frustrating.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
speedfoos is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-05-2011, 09:57 PM   #14 (permalink)
D-series soldier
 
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 764
Rep Power: 11 mhamrick is starting to learn the ropesmhamrick is starting to learn the ropesmhamrick is starting to learn the ropesmhamrick is starting to learn the ropesmhamrick is starting to learn the ropesmhamrick is starting to learn the ropes
iTrader Score: 6 reviews
Default

If it were me I would drop the T2 and atleast spring for a T25. The spool up is not going to be that much different but the potential will be far greater. I know you are only looking for 140ish but the T25 will get you the same 140ish and it will do so a great deal more effeciently which means the IC'r will not have to work nearly as hard. The T25's are dirt cheap anyway. I would sell the T2 to someone with Mini or someone wanting to swap a turbo on a 4 wheeler or motorcycle.

Do you have a compressor map for that turbo? All the T2 stuff I have seen is really being pushed at 150hp. Pretty much all D series motors can safely handle 200hp on stock internals and I would venture to say so will the D14. What scares me though is the 10.4:1 CR. That is a taste high mate. I would see what could be done about getting that in check. Atleast around 9.5:1.
__________________
The difference between a Toyota owner and a Honda owner is the Toyota owners talk about all the shit they are going to do but never do it. Honda owners blow a couple blocks up then talk about what they did and how they done it.

Moving from Chevy to Honda is like going from first base with your girl to hitting a Grand Slam with her and her friends. Everything you want is readily availible and very easy to acquire.

Last edited by mhamrick; 08-05-2011 at 10:06 PM.
mhamrick is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-06-2011, 04:52 AM   #15 (permalink)
All powerful D-series member
 
speedfoos's Avatar
 
iTrader: (22)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Fatalville, NC
Posts: 3,608
Rep Power: 25 speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!
speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 22 reviews
Default

As long as his tune is solid, it should be pretty fun with low boost on that compression. I think the problem he will find is sourcing a tuner who's eyes aren't going to glaze over and show him to the door when he explains what he wants tuned.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
speedfoos is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-08-2011, 01:56 AM   #16 (permalink)
n00b
 
xelad's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 0 xelad is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhamrick View Post
If it were me I would drop the T2 and atleast spring for a T25. The spool up is not going to be that much different but the potential will be far greater. I know you are only looking for 140ish but the T25 will get you the same 140ish and it will do so a great deal more effeciently which means the IC'r will not have to work nearly as hard. The T25's are dirt cheap anyway. I would sell the T2 to someone with Mini or someone wanting to swap a turbo on a 4 wheeler or motorcycle.

Do you have a compressor map for that turbo? All the T2 stuff I have seen is really being pushed at 150hp. Pretty much all D series motors can safely handle 200hp on stock internals and I would venture to say so will the D14. What scares me though is the 10.4:1 CR. That is a taste high mate. I would see what could be done about getting that in check. Atleast around 9.5:1.
Well i think for the time being i will try the T2, as i already have it, and have had all the flanges laser cut etc. It will be fairly easy to upgrade to a T25 in the future wouldn't it?

See this is where i lack experience and knowledge, i have researched compression ratios and the like but have never fully understood it, what dangers are there to the build if i don't sort the ratio? How would i go about it? There is a company on the internet that can make you custom thicker steel head gaskets, is this the sort of thing i need to be looking into?

I have searched for a compression map, but don't really know where to look, I have all of the serial numbers off the turbo, and used that to search but it only came back with information on the sizes and dimensions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfoos View Post
As long as his tune is solid, it should be pretty fun with low boost on that compression. I think the problem he will find is sourcing a tuner who's eyes aren't going to glaze over and show him to the door when he explains what he wants tuned.
I'm worried about that too! A lot of people don't want to know as soon as you mention eManage; let alone what i'm trying to use it for! I thought that i could at least get it to ruin safely, even if it's not making maximum power, until i find someone who i trust!

Has anyone ever used these Durafix Easy Weld rods, i was going to use them to fix a throttle body adaptor to my D16Z6 Inlet Manifold, it seems to be quite strong in the videos, i thought i could fix the adaptor with this, then drill and tap into the adaptor?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWNX:IT
xelad is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-08-2011, 02:54 AM   #17 (permalink)
All powerful D-series member
 
speedfoos's Avatar
 
iTrader: (22)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Fatalville, NC
Posts: 3,608
Rep Power: 25 speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!
speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 22 reviews
Default

Those 'welding rods' suck. I believed the hype and couldn't do shit with them. Don't waste your money, find someone who can tig weld aluminum. I was lucky enough to find a guy near Peterborough when I needed some stuff done.

In regards to your compression ratio, it can lead to some serious problems if the car is not tuned correctly. Most folks like to start a turbo build on a motor that is running anywhere between 8.5-9:1 static compression. As you start pressurizing your intake manifold with a turbo, you've got a safe margin to run some decent boost and more headway because your dynamic compression won't get nearly as high as a motor starting with 10.4:1, as is your case. The key is the tune. You need to make sure that's solid so that you don't detonate your combustion charge, or run into pre-ignition both of which can be disastrous - from toasted bearings to bent and broken conrods and melted pistons. Find a tuner first and run some colder spark plugs (two steps colder than OEM is my recommendation). Premium fuel is a necessity and helps prevent detonation.

An engine's compression ratio is different than a compressor map.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
speedfoos is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-08-2011, 03:53 AM   #18 (permalink)
n00b
 
xelad's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 0 xelad is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Fuck haha ^^ Guess i threw some money away, i'll wait till they arrive and see. Is the only way to lower the engine compression with aftermarket pistons then? As i have read about thicker headgaskets etc, but that seems to be a bit of a bodge? I know a compressor map is different from the engines compression ratio, but i just don't know where i can find one for my turbo!
xelad is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-08-2011, 01:47 PM   #19 (permalink)
All powerful D-series member
 
speedfoos's Avatar
 
iTrader: (22)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Fatalville, NC
Posts: 3,608
Rep Power: 25 speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!
speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!speedfoos is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 22 reviews
Default

No, the stacked head gasket thing will work just fine. Got a buddy who's running a 6-layer MLS on his boosted D17 now for the past six months and its fine.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
speedfoos is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-09-2011, 02:54 AM   #20 (permalink)
n00b
 
xelad's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 0 xelad is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Ha right, so now i just need to figure out what my C/R will be if i stack 2 OEM gaskets; i also wondered if D17 Cometic gasket would fit.
xelad is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the D-series.org forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


iconAll times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:55 PM. | Welcome to Forum, please register to access all of our features.