Max RPM safe for DD? - D-series.org

Go Back   D-series.org Motor Mayhem & Suspension Satisfaction 7th Gen

D-Series.org is the premier Honda All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-20-2011, 03:58 PM   #1 (permalink)
gonzo
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Flor1d4.
Posts: 1,875
Rep Power: 0 sxysweed It's a JDM Star Bitches....
sxysweed It's a JDM Star Bitches....sxysweed It's a JDM Star Bitches....
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default Max RPM safe for DD?

What is the maximum safe RPM for a D17 with Forged Rods/Vitara pistons (I'll make them fit)?
Why can't it be revved higher?
Forces on the pistons/high piston speeds?
What would revving higher damage? Increased wear between the piston/wall?
Damaging the pistons (like in the one vitara thread?)?

Last edited by sxysweed; 02-20-2011 at 04:09 PM.
sxysweed is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-20-2011, 04:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
McLOVIN
 
jEromy's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: At the corner of "Fuck Off" and "Get A Map".
Posts: 800
Rep Power: 17 jEromy is the fucking MAN!!!!jEromy is the fucking MAN!!!!jEromy is the fucking MAN!!!!
jEromy is the fucking MAN!!!!jEromy is the fucking MAN!!!!jEromy is the fucking MAN!!!!jEromy is the fucking MAN!!!!jEromy is the fucking MAN!!!!jEromy is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Id say 8000 is feasible as longas you use arp rod bolts. But remember that the cylindwrhead/camshaft\valvesprings need to be up to that kinda of rpm. Although woth vitaras I think tje motor becomes non interference LOL
__________________
Sr. Cpht
jEromy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2011, 04:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
boostfreak0885's Avatar
 
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: delaware
Posts: 6,966
Rep Power: 20 boostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcano
boostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcano
iTrader Score: 13 reviews
Send a message via AIM to boostfreak0885
Default

the real question is where does the car make peak power, and when does it start to fall off.. bearing clearances are also important when your building a motor that will see high rpms because of a big turbo or something.. if your car makes peak power at 6k, there is no reason to rev it beyond 7k... if your doing it just for gearing issues, well then you need to focus on gearing, and not revving the motor to compensate for shitty gearing
__________________
my new and improved build... check it out

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


best time so far
11.201 at 128mph with a 1.79 60 foot.. damn i need traction, best trap speed is 129mph. 26psi h1c

NEW best 60' 1.56!!!
boostfreak0885 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2011, 04:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
All powerful D-series member
 
EG6-Jarhead's Avatar
 
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: maine
Posts: 3,278
Rep Power: 18 EG6-Jarhead is about to kiss the sky
EG6-Jarhead is about to kiss the skyEG6-Jarhead is about to kiss the skyEG6-Jarhead is about to kiss the skyEG6-Jarhead is about to kiss the skyEG6-Jarhead is about to kiss the skyEG6-Jarhead is about to kiss the skyEG6-Jarhead is about to kiss the sky
iTrader Score: 33 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfreak0885 View Post
the real question is where does the car make peak power, and when does it start to fall off.. bearing clearances are also important when your building a motor that will see high rpms because of a big turbo or something.. if your car makes peak power at 6k, there is no reason to rev it beyond 7k... if your doing it just for gearing issues, well then you need to focus on gearing, and not revving the motor to compensate for shitty gearing
thank you for not making me write this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


  • 1992 CX Hatch
  • H22A4 GT3582R 18PSI
  • 10.81 @ 137mph

REP BACK!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
EG6-Jarhead is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2011, 06:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
gonzo
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Flor1d4.
Posts: 1,875
Rep Power: 0 sxysweed It's a JDM Star Bitches....
sxysweed It's a JDM Star Bitches....sxysweed It's a JDM Star Bitches....
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfreak0885 View Post
the real question is where does the car make peak power, and when does it start to fall off.. bearing clearances are also important when your building a motor that will see high rpms because of a big turbo or something.. if your car makes peak power at 6k, there is no reason to rev it beyond 7k... if your doing it just for gearing issues, well then you need to focus on gearing, and not revving the motor to compensate for shitty gearing
Don't want to say big turbo, but shooting for maybe 400whp.

Still a engine noob, so I just toying with thoughts.
sxysweed is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2011, 06:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
patprimmer's Avatar
 
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 6,676
Rep Power: 24 patprimmer Still a JDM Star....
patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....
iTrader Score: 7 reviews
Default

Limits are maximum piston speed and acceleration rates due to length of stroke and rod length. Short rods change angle faster and accelerate the piston away from TDC faster. They also increase side load against the skirt.

When the D16 vtecs and DOHC engines where introduced, they had the highest piston speeds of any production engine at the time. There are still only a few engines that have higher piston speeds at redline. Increasing the stroke also of course increases piston speed at the same rpm.

Of course a turbo, head and cam all come into play and help determine what rpm you need to get best performance.
__________________
Regards
Pat. RIP Feb 22, 2013.


I will always feed an inquisitive mind, prod a lazy noob and blast a disrespectful bum.

Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

Ignorance may be cured, stupid is forever.

my CRX thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


my intro

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
patprimmer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2011, 06:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
patprimmer's Avatar
 
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 6,676
Rep Power: 24 patprimmer Still a JDM Star....
patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....
iTrader Score: 7 reviews
Default

Excessive piston speed chokes power past a certain point as the charge can't burn fast enough to build pressure fast enough, but that is at more like F1 speeds.

Excessive piston speed also breaks rod bolts and cracks pistons at the skirt, or at the base of the oil ring groves. It can also break pins or pin bosses or even pound out little ends. It can also pop circlips out and the pin scores the bore if the pins flex to much.
__________________
Regards
Pat. RIP Feb 22, 2013.


I will always feed an inquisitive mind, prod a lazy noob and blast a disrespectful bum.

Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

Ignorance may be cured, stupid is forever.

my CRX thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


my intro

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
patprimmer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2011, 06:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
wise in the ways of the D
 
schardbody's Avatar
 
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 1,624
Rep Power: 14 schardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to all
iTrader Score: 2 reviews
Default

lets not forget balance of the rotating assembly.....
__________________
Lee
schardbody is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2011, 06:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
boostfreak0885's Avatar
 
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: delaware
Posts: 6,966
Rep Power: 20 boostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcano
boostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcano
iTrader Score: 13 reviews
Send a message via AIM to boostfreak0885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sxysweed View Post
Don't want to say big turbo, but shooting for maybe 400whp.

Still a engine noob, so I just toying with thoughts.

even having a hp goal doesnt tell you how high you have to rev it...

you will need to put it on the dyno. thats the only way to figure out where your set-up likes it best and where to set the rev limiter. BUT if you have stock valve springs and dont plan on upgrading them, your limited to 7200-7800 rpms. 7200 on the safe side.
__________________
my new and improved build... check it out

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


best time so far
11.201 at 128mph with a 1.79 60 foot.. damn i need traction, best trap speed is 129mph. 26psi h1c

NEW best 60' 1.56!!!
boostfreak0885 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2011, 07:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
Classic Man
 
FarmerD's Avatar
 
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mission Raceway
Posts: 16,355
Rep Power: 59 FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
iTrader Score: 6 reviews
Default

for a daily driver, that has to be reliable, i wouldnt say over 7600rpm
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by patprimmer
Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Ford
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.
FarmerD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2011, 07:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
gonzo
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Flor1d4.
Posts: 1,875
Rep Power: 0 sxysweed It's a JDM Star Bitches....
sxysweed It's a JDM Star Bitches....sxysweed It's a JDM Star Bitches....
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfreak0885 View Post
even having a hp goal doesnt tell you how high you have to rev it...

you will need to put it on the dyno. thats the only way to figure out where your set-up likes it best and where to set the rev limiter. BUT if you have stock valve springs and dont plan on upgrading them, your limited to 7200-7800 rpms. 7200 on the safe side.
I know. Different turbo, different powerband. Different set-up, different spool times, different powerbands, different different different.

Say with a T3/T04E 57 Trim (.63ar). They make maybe 200whp at around 4700rpm on D16's. Maybe 300whp at crossover, and maybe 400whp at 6700, some hold 400whp to 8k+ (and why shift if your making good power, well, until the limits of the engine?). Don't know how those numbers would change/move around with a D17 build.

But assume upgraded valve springs, and possibly cam.
I've seen Pat mention that 7000rpm+ is asking alot from a D17. I've also seen the thread with the D16/Vitara's that were cracking, which I would be worried about in a D17. But I can't see the D17 spooling/making power that much earlier than a D16, that you don't need to rev it as high. Am I correct?
sxysweed is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2011, 08:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 14
Rep Power: 0 CoRider92 is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

in the 4g63 of my friends in our little car club, the crower stroker kit he got installed lowered peak boost by about 400-500 rpms. but thats .4 liters difference where as your talking .1 I would say the power curve should be somewhat linear to a d16 but the only way to find out would be the dyno
CoRider92 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2011, 08:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
wise in the ways of the D
 
schardbody's Avatar
 
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 1,624
Rep Power: 14 schardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to allschardbody is a name known to all
iTrader Score: 2 reviews
Default

with MOST daily driveable cams you'll be out of breathe before you hit unsafe revs. even the bisi (kind of SOHC) 3.6 is done by what 8000rpm? i believe the head is pretty close to done by then on stock ports.

dont compare "race" builds or "race" cars to your car. most racers will extend the revs to whatever is needed to get the rpm drop to the next gear just below peak torque.

if you dont run an oversized turbo you wont need a ton of revs to be happy.
__________________
Lee
schardbody is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-22-2011, 04:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
TYC
n00b
 
TYC's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10
Rep Power: 0 TYC is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Lot's of info being posted in this thread OP. Best I can add is to also find someone with a similar setup as what you're toying around with and go from there. That person might be able to set you in a better path.
TYC is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2011, 02:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
patprimmer's Avatar
 
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 6,676
Rep Power: 24 patprimmer Still a JDM Star....
patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....
iTrader Score: 7 reviews
Default

uncivic4dr

Apart from the bit of info you posted about rpm and components related to that, this is a very substantial thread jack. Jacking the thread instead of starting your own probably explains your red dot.
__________________
Regards
Pat. RIP Feb 22, 2013.


I will always feed an inquisitive mind, prod a lazy noob and blast a disrespectful bum.

Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

Ignorance may be cured, stupid is forever.

my CRX thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


my intro

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
patprimmer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2011, 02:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
All powerful D-series member
 
Full_Tilt's Avatar
 
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Jesusville, FL
Posts: 3,720
Rep Power: 29 Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !Full_Tilt is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
iTrader Score: 1 reviews
Default

I dont understand.
If you want to talk about some other build why dont you make a thread?
Also, you can edit posts. You dont have to keep making one post after another as you think of things to say... unless of course youre just trying to get your post count up, in which case, shame on you.


EDIT:
420 hp at 32 psi!!!
BAHAHAHAHAHA

Last edited by Full_Tilt; 03-24-2011 at 02:49 PM.
Full_Tilt is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2011, 05:41 PM   #17 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
patprimmer's Avatar
 
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 6,676
Rep Power: 24 patprimmer Still a JDM Star....
patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....patprimmer Still a JDM Star....
iTrader Score: 7 reviews
Default

Leave it, but start your own build thread and only post here what directly relates to the OP or a small diversion. Well at least that's my take on it, but hey, it's not my site.
__________________
Regards
Pat. RIP Feb 22, 2013.


I will always feed an inquisitive mind, prod a lazy noob and blast a disrespectful bum.

Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

Ignorance may be cured, stupid is forever.

my CRX thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


my intro

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
patprimmer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2011, 04:05 AM   #18 (permalink)
Im Bringing TSEXY Back!
 
T-MacK's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: CANADA where its cold EH!
Posts: 5,468
Rep Power: 32 T-MacK is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !T-MacK is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !T-MacK is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
T-MacK is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !T-MacK is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !T-MacK is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !T-MacK is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !T-MacK is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !T-MacK is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !T-MacK is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncivic4dr View Post

i had no intention of thread jacking lsbrasil's build thread he is a very nice guy and puts this info out here for us to view and i put it out too help thats all, i no i got bad rep but please dont make it worse for me i honestly wanted to help i will delete it if yall would like.
Only reason you have it is because you blatantly said "Fuck you guys im all most at 65 posts and then i'll be in the for sale thread".............Thats not how we roll here. Good luck to you


And O.P on stock valvetrain 7400-7600 max not that most stock cams will even make steady power untill then anyways. My 2.2 made peak power till 8000rpms before it fell flat on its face, I dd that car but all so had Bisi springs on stock retainers so it took a beating.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hella Flush.....Were waiting!


Xbox gamer tag: THErealTMACK
T-MacK is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the D-series.org forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Security Question
*Required, this field is not shown to others: While balancing on a piece of wood, two inches by four inches known as a 2x4, john and his friend sally both spotted a dalmatian inside a truck with sirens, headed to put out a fire. State what kind of animal is mentioned in the sentence above.
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


iconAll times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:34 AM. | Welcome to Forum, please register to access all of our features.