Off-season "grocery" list - improving on 156whp NA d16z6 - D-series.org

Go Back   D-series.org Motor Mayhem & Suspension Satisfaction Naturally Aspirated

D-Series.org is the premier Honda Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-07-2017, 08:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
D-Series cadet
 
curlybandit's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 474
Rep Power: 11 curlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunna
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default Off-season "grocery" list - improving on 156whp NA d16z6

Hey everyone.

I've decided to try and squeeze a little more power out of my d16z6 build from this past summer (2016). It's a high-compression NA d16z6 build. It made 156whp on a Mustang Dyno. Here's the link with the build details and the dyno graph and video.

I figure I can try to get a little more out of it with better induction, fuel delivery and exhaust. I was using a generic cone filter and short-ram intake, d16y8 manifold with ported inlet to 60mm and ported runners, stock 56mm throttle body, Megan racing 4-2-1 header, high-flow catalytic converter and 2.25" Tanabe Medalion exhaust.

There's room for improvement…

I picked up a few things:
- Skunk2 Pro Series intake manifold with 68mm inlet (used)
- 68mm throttle body (used)
- Skunk2 3.5" cone filter with velocity stack
- 410cc RDX injectors
- Injector hats
- RDX injector pigtails


Things on the shopping list:
- Vibrant Ultra Quite 2.5" resonators (one as a resonator, one as a muffler)
- 2.5" exhaust (options are to order a pre-fabricated one or a custom made one from a local shop)
- 1320 RMF 4-1 header (going with this since it's better for high-RPM power and this is mainly a track car - also have the option to have one custom build from the same exhaust shop)

Things to consider:
- 3" short-ram intake
- 3" cold-air intake

I expect that with improved air in, fuel, exhaust out I hope to make a few more ponies.

Let's see how it goes.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


1993 Honda Civic del Sol Si -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by curlybandit; 01-08-2017 at 04:05 AM.
curlybandit is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-08-2017, 01:51 AM   #2 (permalink)
D-series PIMP
 
all_rice's Avatar
 
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 808 State
Posts: 1,012
Rep Power: 21 all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!
all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!all_rice is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 19 reviews
Default

I think the bigger tb will hurt your performance
__________________
Land of the free, because of the brave!

RIP SFC Dwayne Torres "Brother in arms"
RIP CALI NOOB
all_rice is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2017, 04:04 AM   #3 (permalink)
D-Series cadet
 
curlybandit's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 474
Rep Power: 11 curlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunna
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by all_rice View Post
I think the bigger tb will hurt your performance
It's very possible and something I'll be considering when I put it together. Fortunately I also have a 60mm sitting around
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


1993 Honda Civic del Sol Si -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
curlybandit is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2017, 01:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
All powerful D-series member
 
TheToaster's Avatar
 
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Washington
Posts: 3,039
Rep Power: 13 TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!
TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 7 reviews
Default

Sell the 68mm, unfortunately that was the wrong idea.

While it may even raise the line what looks to be an acceptable amount, it will result in immeasurable transient losses that will result in the car feeling and driving slower.

But most of the time, the tuner does not tune the transient areas, partial throttle, so its up to the owner, which rarely puts in the effort to figure it out, so it never gets done. Leaving it close(r) to stock will result in the best feeling mods. Not that they are better performing than the others, simply the stock tune is closer.

The Fuel injectors are also a waste, unless you are maxing out duty cycles, you are losing resolution and precision by using a larger injector.

I personally like the Edelbrock manifold better, but was given a S2 off the bat, and it DID show good NA gains. The S2 seemed to open it up almost everywhere, mid/high, while only suffering a small loss of a little of the lower rpm 1-3k perkiniess.

The Edlebrock manifold has more of a "hollow" feel in the pedal, a little more low/mid losses with seemingly unlimited top end.


Both are honestly low R&D, get this out to the kids for as much profit as possible, products. Because its a Honda Civic. And especially cause its a D16. On the S2, the main water pipe has a tendency to honestly just fall out. Hard to believe, but it has happened many times.

On the Edelbrock, the Flange where the IM nuts go on its not fly cut or machined at all. It is as if they didn't test fit it a single time at Edelbrock, and has actually steered me away from their products at all cost. It is such a blind negligence I have a hard time believing it as an honest mistake. Something to think about when supporting or recommending products to friends.


Honestly? I'd be happy with what you have and stop dumping money into this platform. It is only increasingly lossy at your point, a Z6 manifold works pretty damn good.

Pay off some debt, or buy property, a house, or a nicer car, something that increases in value, like collectibles, or a nice dinner for a pretty lady, or spend time with your friends and family..

I think you really did a great job on your build, and one of the few to see the great NA results I did, so whatever route you go, you should know youre already a winner at the D series Game.

Last edited by TheToaster; 01-10-2017 at 01:39 PM.
TheToaster is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2017, 07:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
D-Series cadet
 
curlybandit's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 474
Rep Power: 11 curlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunnacurlybandit is da #1 stunna
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheToaster View Post
Sell the 68mm, unfortunately that was the wrong idea.

While it may even raise the line what looks to be an acceptable amount, it will result in immeasurable transient losses that will result in the car feeling and driving slower.

But most of the time, the tuner does not tune the transient areas, partial throttle, so its up to the owner, which rarely puts in the effort to figure it out, so it never gets done. Leaving it close(r) to stock will result in the best feeling mods. Not that they are better performing than the others, simply the stock tune is closer.

The Fuel injectors are also a waste, unless you are maxing out duty cycles, you are losing resolution and precision by using a larger injector.

I personally like the Edelbrock manifold better, but was given a S2 off the bat, and it DID show good NA gains. The S2 seemed to open it up almost everywhere, mid/high, while only suffering a small loss of a little of the lower rpm 1-3k perkiniess.

The Edlebrock manifold has more of a "hollow" feel in the pedal, a little more low/mid losses with seemingly unlimited top end.


Both are honestly low R&D, get this out to the kids for as much profit as possible, products. Because its a Honda Civic. And especially cause its a D16. On the S2, the main water pipe has a tendency to honestly just fall out. Hard to believe, but it has happened many times.

On the Edelbrock, the Flange where the IM nuts go on its not fly cut or machined at all. It is as if they didn't test fit it a single time at Edelbrock, and has actually steered me away from their products at all cost. It is such a blind negligence I have a hard time believing it as an honest mistake. Something to think about when supporting or recommending products to friends.


Honestly? I'd be happy with what you have and stop dumping money into this platform. It is only increasingly lossy at your point, a Z6 manifold works pretty damn good.

Pay off some debt, or buy property, a house, or a nicer car, something that increases in value, like collectibles, or a nice dinner for a pretty lady, or spend time with your friends and family..

I think you really did a great job on your build, and one of the few to see the great NA results I did, so whatever route you go, you should know youre already a winner at the D series Game.
Hey Toaster.

Thanks for the feedback. BUT IT'S NOT OVER!!!

Regarding the tuning, the tuner that I used last year was exceptional. I'm almost certain that he paid attention to the transient areas as you've described them. It was a very thorough job. Of course I can always contact him to confirm if he'll be tuning these areas when I see him next year. If he also advises against using the 68mm, I do have a 60mm to use.

Regarding the fuel injectors, I believe that I am likely to see an improvement. Another member of this forum and occasional track buddy had his d16y8 with bolt-ons - including the same injectors - tuned by the same tuner on a Mustang Dyno and made 150whp the day after I did. You can see his thread here. Given that I had made 156whp (mind you I didn't have time for the "fine-tuning" at the cam-gear) with the modifications I've made and he made only 6whp less than I did, I believe there's room for improvement. The main differences were the injectors, a better intake manifold and larger TB as well as a 2.5" exhaust.

I greatly appreciate your recommendations. I'm fortunate enough to have met most of your suggestions by having spent far too much time in school which ultimately allowed me to obtained a great career which I love.

This little ongoing project will remain just that - ongoing - and will do so until I finally decide that I'm ready for a new platform. This is my yoga. My meditation. Perhaps I've taken this as far as I can. Maybe it's enough. But knowing that I haven't explored a few remaining areas from which a little more power can be squeezed will always draw me to their completion. Most importantly, it makes me happy.

It's about balance. This project will never take priority over the most important things in my life which are my wife and son. She supports my passion and I will be passing this onto my son when he becomes old enough to enjoy it. Of course there is the financial aspect of this project but I'm fortunate enough that when all other expenses are met (including treating the Mrs.) I'm left with a little something extra to treat myself with.

Thank you for the wonderful complement. I'm very proud of this build and grateful for the immeasurable help I've gotten from DSO.

Cheers!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


1993 Honda Civic del Sol Si -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by curlybandit; 01-10-2017 at 07:48 PM.
curlybandit is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the D-series.org forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Security Question
*Required, this field is not shown to others: While balancing on a piece of wood, two inches by four inches known as a 2x4, john and his friend sally both spotted a dalmatian inside a truck with sirens, headed to put out a fire. State what kind of animal is mentioned in the sentence above.
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


iconAll times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:51 PM. | Welcome to Forum, please register to access all of our features.