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Old 11-11-2010, 12:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Fuel injectors not working

Ok, first a little background info. The car is a '93 Si, stock P28 and all that jazz. The engine has been swapped out for the vtec D15b a year and a half or so ago. Swapped the intake manifold from the z6 onto it for the extra sensor. Other than the engine and some no-name header to replace the original cracked one, it is one stock.

Sunday I was taking a drive to see my mom and my sister. Stopped and got gas at the station, filled up, and after driving about 3 feet from the gas pump it died, and obviously didn't start back up.

Tow the bastard every bit of 3/4 mile back the the apartment.

I figured it was the typical no spark issue, so I checked it first. Has good spark on every cylinder. However while I was taking the plugs out I noticed they were completely dry. I took the fuel rail off and had a friend crank to see if they were firing. The first time I didn't hold them into the fuel rail, and met a face full of fuel after one popped out. After holding them in, I found none were firing. So fuel is getting as far as the rail with good pressure.

I took my volt meter and checked the resistance of each injector, and all were approximately 12.5 ohms. Each injector is also getting over 12 volts. I've checked and cleaned the thermostat ground as well as every fuse in the car. The main relay is working: the fuel pump primes and sends gas while it's cranking.

After all this started I was getting a code 20 for the ELD. As of 10 min ago it's throwing 10, 20, and 40. I didn't even think 40 was a code, but it's one long flash with a long pause, two long flashes with a long pause, then four.

I'm kinda of stuck here not knowing where to go next. I've been searching online for the better part of 2 days and can't seem to find anything too useful. I know the ECU sends a ground signal to the injectors to pulse, but I'm unsure of how to test.

I'm in college away from home so I don't know anyone with a 92-95 civic I can swap parts from.

If anyone could help with this problem I would be very grateful. I don't have any cash to take it to a mechanic, not that I'd want to anyway. Someone just give me a lead as to where I need to go next.

Thanks for reading,
MP
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
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wonder if the injectors clogged up
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Try getting the same ecu of someone you know that works and try it. If you are getting 12 volts and they arent even making clicking sounds(fter all theyre just solenoids) then you are not getting the ecu supplied ground.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Unless they all decided to stop up at exactly the same time, I wouldn't think so. The car had been running perfect until it quit, which makes me think it's an electrical issue somewhere.

Edit: Save/Sohc, I really want to try another ECU. Only proble is I'm new to the town I go to college in so I don't know that many people with P28's yet. haha
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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check all ground point,make sure theres a good connection and no broken wires... check to see if the ecu is getting power..
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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You have a wiring or ecu problem if..When you jump the negative wire clip to a ground the injector sprays. I doubt they all clogged at the same time. Possibility they all fried? Never seen a p28 fry injectors or any ecu though. Either way i have a set of freshly rebuilt z6 injectors for sale. lol lets see what happens.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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check all ground point,make sure theres a good connection and no broken wires... check to see if the ecu is getting power..
The only ground I know in the bay is on the thermostat housing, Which I have already cleaned. How exactly would I know if the ECU is getting power?

On a side note, when I had the fuel rail out and was checking the injectors the first time, gas got in the combustion chamber, and it ran for several seconds before starving. So I know it's nothing with the ignition.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Main relay controls power to the injectors according to the FSM the ecu controls the grounds
page 306 in the full pdf manual off www.hondatech.info

same thing happened to me in my 89 when i was still dpfi, no injector pulse, swapped injectors, nothing, soldered up main relay haven't had a problem since

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Old 11-11-2010, 02:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Main relay controls power to the injectors according to the FSM the ecu controls the grounds
page 306 in the full pdf manual off hondatech.info: Honda service manuals

same thing happened to me in my 89 when i was still dpfi, no injector pulse, swapped injectors, nothing, soldered up main relay haven't had a problem since
If the main relay wasn't working, the pump wouldn't prime, correct? This is why I replaced it about a year or so ago when it went out.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
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If the main relay wasn't working, the pump wouldn't prime, correct? This is why I replaced it about a year or so ago when it went out.
Usually if the relays are not working I just take the plastic cover off and resolder the circuits. Make sure there is no cracks in the solder joints.
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Old 11-11-2010, 03:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The relay IS working though. I'm thinking it's more related to the ECU or the wiring to the injectors from the ECU. That's what I want to know how to test.
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Old 11-11-2010, 03:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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the fsm is your friend then, follow the flowcharts it should help
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Old 11-11-2010, 03:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
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i cant see it being a broken wire... you pulled up to the gas station, got gas, and then it wouldnt start... relay... or already said, ecu.
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Old 11-11-2010, 03:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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the fsm is your friend then, follow the flowcharts it should help
I've got a PDF file of the FSM on my laptop, but it seems like it's wanting you to go after the flowchart pertaining to the CEL you have. The more I think about it the more I feel I need to check the ECU. I wish I was back home so I could use a friends.
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Old 11-11-2010, 04:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
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page 306 in my pdf for 92-95 has a flowchart just for the main relay, its a pita to scroll through without shortcuts like the pdf i have for my ed
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Old 11-11-2010, 04:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The main relay has more outputs than just the fuel pump. It doesn't hurt to check, and it's been the cause of all sorts of issues.
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Old 11-11-2010, 04:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I had a recent issue similar to this.

When I start trouble circuits I always start with the source voltage.

When I did the battery was @ 8v.

Replaced it and everything worked normal.

Also check and make sure your engine harness to battery cable is tight and clean.
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Old 11-11-2010, 05:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
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your suppose to start at the source thats not getting power, look at the schematics, and see what powers that source, make sure that source is getting power and a good ground, and then go from there
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