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Old 06-28-2009, 06:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Water/Meth kit for n/a

been doing a lot of research on this wondering if it would benefit us in anyway. being from cali our highest octane rating is 91. at 91 octane with a great tune it can support high compressions in the range of 12:1-12:5 from what i seen. that's not bad but what if we could run say something like 13:1 or higher on something like 87 or 89 on the street with more timing without any pinging. of course you can run race fuel at the track yada yada. but my point is saving money on gas by using lower octane, running high compression ratio's, more timing, and lower temp's.


now i do realize that water/meth kits are being used mostly on boosted set-up and it might not really do much in a n/a app. but the concept makes sense just wondering why no one has tried it on a n/a D. from doing some research seems mostly n/a v8 guys have actually been trying this with benefits. it might be a waste of money but i just want to hear some constructive criticism.



Benefits of Water Alcohol/Methanol Injection on NA application:

*
Lower air charge temperatures by 30-40 degree's
*
Reduces cylinder temperatures by 200+ degrees
*
Increase your 87-93 pump gas by 10-15+ points
*
Allows the use of lower grades fuels
*
Allows you to safely run more timing
*
Cools and protects the tops of your pistons
*
Longer more stable combustion expansion and progression
*
Removes carbon build up from combustion chambers, pistons and valves
*
Reduces & helps eliminate damaging engine detonation & pre-ignition
*
No need for expensive racing fuel or additives
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Last edited by greasemonkey89; 06-28-2009 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
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and yes i know overall meth injection has been used for years its nothing new.
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Old 06-28-2009, 08:34 AM   #3 (permalink)
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It could work, just have to see with the dyno results. We wont see near the gains as a FI setup, but there will be gains.
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Old 06-28-2009, 08:50 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyjoecivic View Post
It could work, just have to see with the dyno results. We wont see near the gains as a FI setup, but there will be gains.
FI would benefit the most from this with bigger power gains for a water/meth kit i know. i would love to run even 12:1 on 87 or even higher compression on pump gas. add some nitrous lol


i already did my research of this with nitrous which i plan on doing as well. really its the reason im asking about it for all motor lol.
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Old 06-28-2009, 09:37 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I would like to how the benefits of water and meth on a n/a car as well

Do It Yourself Water Alcohol Methanol Injection

there's a good link but it talks about turbo cars.
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Do you have E85 around you? If so, would that be an option for you?

If you're looking to cool the charge, upstream injectors might help too.

I dunno, I just think of water/meth injection as a band-aid fix. I would just run lower compression in the first place. You're gaining less than 1% when you go from 12.5:1 to 13:1.
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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If only they sold e85 in CT!
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Old 06-28-2009, 04:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ddd4114 View Post
Do you have E85 around you? If so, would that be an option for you?

If you're looking to cool the charge, upstream injectors might help too.

I dunno, I just think of water/meth injection as a band-aid fix. I would just run lower compression in the first place. You're gaining less than 1% when you go from 12.5:1 to 13:1.
as far as i know only like 8 e85 pump in all of California none which are close to me . how the meth alone would up the octane rating anywhere from 10 to 15 points. stopping detonation and pinging and letting me advance timing safely while running shitty low pump gas for the cheap. then again who needs to drive 12:5.1 compression daily lol. the cooler iat's would be helpful but im not looking at cooling as much as the benefits of running more timing and low octane pump fuel with high compression.
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Old 06-28-2009, 04:12 PM   #9 (permalink)
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of course this all looks great on paper from all these companies selling these kits online. but the only people benefiting from it n/a wise is the v8 guys plus they throw in a bit of nitrous also.


i mean i can see how it can be looked at as a band aid fix but the same can be said to the boosted guys that use it. it works the same way for them as it can work for us just they make a ton more power than we would trying this out. im not looking to make gobs of power just looking to save gas and reap some of the benefits water/meth offers.
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Old 06-28-2009, 04:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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im not sure, as im not talking from experience...but wouldnt the water/meth injected to a motor as small as a d-series, being N/A, likely foul out the spark?
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Old 06-28-2009, 05:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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displaces needed oxygen......
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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im going with a water meth set up on my car once the motor is in and worked in

water meth = poor mans NOS
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Old 06-30-2009, 03:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
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water meth = poor mans NOS
umm, no



I don't see useing it for a daily driver. Track vehicle, yes.
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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With no added air to the equation, your engine will stumble until higher RPM's when manifold vacuum peaks. Ask me how I know this........


Meth/Water injection coupled with a High compression engine works great with a 75 wet shot of Nitrous. But N/A won't see any benefit unless its only used at the track and RPM's never fall below 5k.


been there, tried it....
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