Building a powerful street NA d16y8/z6

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by martyr1391

Builthatch!

So on this cr calculator, I entered all stock z6 information and get 9.13 CR. That sounds correct.

I entered your recommended config, z6 block, z6 head, p29 pistons, z6 OE HF (.037), OE deck height, no milling, no overbore, no shaving... 13.6 CR!!! Is this accurate?

If so, only a thicker HG (greddy 2mm, .079) would bring it below 12.0. Does that sound right?

stock headgasket z6 w/ p29, it should be around 12:1. did you do the piston to deck @ 1mm (.040)?

[martyr1391]

The default value for the pistontodeck height for the z6 is 0 on this calculator, so I left it as is like the noob that I am. So, Yup... with a .040 hieght, the actual cr for that config is 12.03. Thanks!

I am wanting to build my z6 for N\A. I was just wondering what was the easiest way to bump my compression up some. New HG? Mill the head?

[martyr1391]

New HG and head milling seem like easy things to do, but it will not increase cr anything significant, perhaps you'll go from from 9.2 to 9.7, at most. Though I have never used anything less than OE Honda HG and non-milled head, you should check other forums as well since they carry a ton of informtion on those topics (i.e. using less than OE HG and how much to mill). I have read a lot about less anything less than a OE Honda gasket might be dangerous and NOT recommended. Go with a basic mill job, no more than recommended , I think no more than .010 in, again I don't speak from experience, only what I read on these forums.

Like builthatch put in his initial post, using new pistons is the best way to go. Yes, you'll have to remove the motor/tranny, get a cherry picker and motor stand, but you'll also have to install all new seals, bearings, pumps, etc. The N/A power though will be much better.

[laloquera]

d16z6 with p29 pistons i should have 12:1 CR? am i safe running 93 octane without tunning?

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by laloquera

d16z6 with p29 pistons i should have 12:1 CR? am i safe running 93 octane without tunning?

nope. def need tuning. ring lands will break.

[laloquera]

what oct. would i need to run without tunning..101? is there anyway i can lower the CR a little so i can run 93-95 octane?

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by laloquera

what oct. would i need to run without tunning..101? is there anyway i can lower the CR a little so i can run 93-95 octane?

in reality, there is no way guess that...

are you planning on tuning sometime?
i speak from experience, not tuning is 10X the trouble and cost of just giving in and tuning. not to mention, tuning can be the difference between a waste of money and a great performer. the difference between a frown and a smile, if you will.

[laloquera]

im gonna have to ask around to see who can tune, im pretty sure i will have to drive a couple of hours away to get this done =[

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by laloquera

im gonna have to ask around to see who can tune, im pretty sure i will have to drive a couple of hours away to get this done =[

where do you live?

[laloquera]

arkansas ..might have to go to oklahoma city

[napolean]

what pistons/compression would you suggest if im wanting to run a 50-75 shot of nitrous, i want to be able to run a fun motor on the street and when its time to go to the track, do a little spray. i am most likely going to go with an aftermarket piston just for a little piece of mind when spraying the juice, just not exactly sure what compression would be best and yet safest for my build.dont want to be to sluggish but yet dont want to run too high of compression and possibly run into detonation problems.

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by napolean

what pistons/compression would you suggest if im wanting to run a 50-75 shot of nitrous, i want to be able to run a fun motor on the street and when its time to go to the track, do a little spray. i am most likely going to go with an aftermarket piston just for a little piece of mind when spraying the juice, just not exactly sure what compression would be best and yet safest for my build.dont want to be to sluggish but yet dont want to run too high of compression and possibly run into detonation problems.

the difference in parts between a spray/high CR setup and JUST a high CR setup is pretty minimal. the parts i would DEF include in a high CR spray setup are like you said aftermarket forged pistons, head studs and stainless steel valves on the exhaust side (to deal with the EGT's if they get kinda high for some reason or another; it's been known to happen while tuning a combo like the one we are talking about ; )

So, really, i'd go with the highest compression you can run comfortably (fuel availability, tune capability) and then spray ontop of that. There are a few ways to switch between a juiced and high cr tune; i used to use an MSD retard box; it would kick the timing back 4-6 degrees depending on the shot. Nowadays there are engine managements you can have actual juice tunes to run when the juice goes on and a solely high cr tune to go when you are all motor. This will allow you to have a tune which will allow you to run on pump gas and spray with the high CR. THe best bet would be a high CR tune, a high CR w/ spray on pump gas tune, and then a high CR w/ spray on race fuel tune. You would have to look at your tuning EMS options for that though.

Hi, I'm Max and I write from Italy, my car is a '97 EJ8 with a D16Y8.
It has 92k kmeters an it's practically completely stock.

Here in Italy we've 95 or 98/99 octane fuel.

I've rear your fantastic Topic (with big "T") and now I would like to do the same as you suggested: a powerful N/A D16.

my friends with the knowledge that we have on d-series stops to sotf tuning with engine power of about 140 HP and the major of them swaps on B-series.

I like my d16 and i don't want to swap.

My question is: if I would like to buy some used components from you guys on this forum, is there anyone that could help me? for example, do I have to buy P29 pistons? or can I mantain my originals?

for my specific engine what is the best and cheap setup? naturally I'll reach the power that I pay eheheh

wich components I can recover from old models?

thank u very much

byezzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Xam

I know that you guys are getting sick of these questions from noob's like me but I am absolutely at a loss here. I wyould like to run the p29's but with any of the cr calculators I am comming up with a minimum of 11.6:1. I would like to stay around 11.0:1. I am running a complete y8 block/head so I was woundering if I simply ran the a6 pistond with about 0.020 milling on the head if this would bring me anywhere near 11.0:1. The cr calc's dont allow for head milling. I simply subtracted .020 from the head gaskets thickness and it gave me a 10.8:1 cr. If this is accurate then I would be happy with this. Now what if I overbored by 0.020? I would immagine that this would only add to the compression. Also I was woulndering what cam I should run with this, would the stage 3 still be a good choice? Will the stage three cause any idling issues?
Thanks guys
Ken

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by krwtek1

I wyould like to run the p29's but with any of the cr calculators I am comming up with a minimum of 11.6:1. I would like to stay around 11.0:1. I am running a complete y8 block/head so I was woundering if I simply ran the a6 pistond with about 0.020 milling on the head if this would bring me anywhere near 11.0:1. The cr calc's dont allow for head milling. I simply subtracted .020 from the head gaskets thickness and it gave me a 10.8:1 cr. If this is accurate then I would be happy with this. Now what if I overbored by 0.020? I would immagine that this would only add to the compression. Also I was woulndering what cam I should run with this, would the stage 3 still be a good choice? Will the stage three cause any idling issues?
Thanks guys
Ken

the regular bore p29's in a untouched y8 make for around 12.6:1; 75mm bore, 90mm stroke, cc volume is 32.80, dome displacement is 7.2cc, head gasket thickness is .037, and piston to deck is 1mm (.040 in the hole)

in my thread, i mention that you can select a head gasket to get to the compression ratio you need, so if you do the math for the Greddy headgasket in a y8, you get 11.2:1. Greddy headgasket, 2mm=.0787".

You are right, the compression w/ the a6 pistons, y8 gasket and .020 from the head would be about 10.8. If you were to overbore by half a millimeter, 75.5 a6 pistons, and milled that .020, you would be at practically 11:1.

if you want to calculate overbore, just add to the bore at the top of the calculator. Also, a rough estimate feature for milling the head is indeed subtracting from the headgasket thickness.

the Crower 3 cam is wild, and needs alot of tuning to have a decent idle...but it's doable. Remember it needs some moderate to major head porting to work well! Crower 2 is a nice upgrade that doesn't necessarily need all the porting (on y8 i'd still port no matter what) and it idles "ok".

for tuning what do I plan on running a P28 chipped. I have a guy who will chip it and dyno tune it for 100$. I think its a very cheap price. Will i have to tow my ride to the shop for tuning or will a base map be sufficient enough to get me up and running? If I can run a base map where can I get it?

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by krwtek1

for tuning what do I plan on running a P28 chipped. I have a guy who will chip it and dyno tune it for 100$. I think its a very cheap price. Will i have to tow my ride to the shop for tuning or will a base map be sufficient enough to get me up and running? If I can run a base map where can I get it?

with that cam and that compression, whatever tune you choose, it should be tuned per that setup on the dyno, the parameters of the ignition and fueling need to be setup with the air/fuel ratio needs of that engine in mind; just work off of a p28 base map and tune from there; you will see it needs alot of fuel, not alot of timing, and a high vtec activation. I recommend you use at the bare minimum a free program like Crome or something similar. I like Neptune and even moreso i love the Apexi Power FC. I would not drive it unless it's tuned SPECIFICALLY for that setup.

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by xamtomcat

Hi, I'm Max and I write from Italy, my car is a '97 EJ8 with a D16Y8.
It has 92k kmeters an it's practically completely stock.

Here in Italy we've 95 or 98/99 octane fuel.

I've rear your fantastic Topic (with big "T") and now I would like to do the same as you suggested: a powerful N/A D16.

my friends with the knowledge that we have on d-series stops to sotf tuning with engine power of about 140 HP and the major of them swaps on B-series.

I like my d16 and i don't want to swap.

My question is: if I would like to buy some used components from you guys on this forum, is there anyone that could help me? for example, do I have to buy P29 pistons? or can I mantain my originals?

for my specific engine what is the best and cheap setup? naturally I'll reach the power that I pay eheheh

wich components I can recover from old models?

thank u very much

byezzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Xam

Welcome; hmmm, Italy- i love Italian women.

the p29 piston is essential for the high compression you need to make power. pretty much everything else can be used that is already on or in your motor, however, you DEFINATELY need to swap the pistons (obviously) and tune. Additional parts and mods from there, if the right ones are chosen, will increase power. Ported head, big cam, nice intake manifold, nice header, etc.

Thanks!!!

and... for italian women, you're right!!! i love them too so if you'll come in italy one day i'll let you meet some of mine :alky: :alky:


byezzzzzzzzz

PS:
- but of wich engine are that pistons(P29)?
- can y8 block,rods and the other parts resist to that compression?
- how much i can pay for used P29s ?

***edit***
- if I only swap the P29s on my engine wich c/r will I reach and about how many HPs?(I think anyway that they could'n go on stock motor ehehe)
- with 95 or 98 fuel could I have detonation risks?

thankyou very much