Building a powerful street NA d16y8/z6

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by RaveN1814

So, builthatch, would a 10.5 CR with a .010 over bore be enough compression for the stg. 3 crower?

that's a toughie- the overlap of the stage 3 is so great that it would soften that 10.5:1 compression up quite a bit.

i don't know...i think maybe you should contact Brian Crower to see what his decision would be between the stage 2 and stage 3. Mention the overlap bleeding compression off and see what he says.

brian@brianXcrower.com

take the x out, i put it there to keep spam spiders away.

[Gek]

A pair of n00b's qwestions:

1. I newer saw d16Y8 "alive", could anybody show/explain me where's knock-sensor located?
(I think about possibility of installing knock-sensor on ZC VTEC, my chipped ECU is ready for this).

2. I still can't get exactly what means porting (of head)?

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by Gek

A pair of n00b's qwestions:

1. I newer saw d16Y8 "alive", could anybody show/explain me where's knock-sensor located?
(I think about possibility of installing knock-sensor on ZC VTEC, my chipped ECU is ready for this).

2. I still can't get exactly what means porting (of head)?

the knock sensor is in the middle of the back of the motor, underneath the intake manifold, somewhere above the oil filter. it's plunged into the block back there...

porting is modifying the intake or exhaust ports in an effort to improve their efficiency and help bring more air in and get more exhaust out. this typically is done with a grinder by hand, but also can be done with a CNC program.

[Gek]

Oh, builthatch, thank you so much! You're the boss!

[RaveN1814]

Originally Posted by builthatch

that's a toughie- the overlap of the stage 3 is so great that it would soften that 10.5:1 compression up quite a bit.

i don't know...i think maybe you should contact Brian Crower to see what his decision would be between the stage 2 and stage 3. Mention the overlap bleeding compression off and see what he says.

brian@brianXcrower.com

take the x out, i put it there to keep spam spiders away.

Ok, I e-mailed brian, and after a bunch of short winded answers and replys I finally got an answer outta him and this is all he said:

"The Stage 3 Crower cam has a very rough, unstreetable idle. The engine will
die below 1200 rpm.

Highly recommend going with the Stage 2 cam, but you need to order it
through Crower.

Thank you,

Brian"

So, builthatch, should I keep trying with him through e-mail or what? It was just so frustrating after I got my first reply because all he said was "we don't have any cams available for the d16a". Which means one, he misread and thought I had a d16a instead of a d16y8 and two, he thinks I'm e-mailing him about purchasing one, when I'm just trying to get some technical questions answered. So, pretty much we went back and forth for a little while before I got it through to him that I was NOT buying right now, just trying to get some questions answered from him.

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by RaveN1814

Ok, I e-mailed brian, and after a bunch of short winded answers and replys I finally got an answer outta him and this is all he said:

"The Stage 3 Crower cam has a very rough, unstreetable idle. The engine will
die below 1200 rpm.

Highly recommend going with the Stage 2 cam, but you need to order it
through Crower.

Thank you,

Brian"

So, builthatch, should I keep trying with him through e-mail or what? It was just so frustrating after I got my first reply because all he said was "we don't have any cams available for the d16a". Which means one, he misread and thought I had a d16a instead of a d16y8 and two, he thinks I'm e-mailing him about purchasing one, when I'm just trying to get some technical questions answered. So, pretty much we went back and forth for a little while before I got it through to him that I was NOT buying right now, just trying to get some questions answered from him.

strange, ill get in the middle of this and see wtf is going on. ill report back with some info.

update: Brian, i think, is not the contact i am going with anymore...i have contacted someone over at regular Crower to see WTF is going on here. I hate aggravation like this simply because I am promoting a product that i am not making money on, and when a referred contact hits them up, like you, you'd think we would have an easier time getting a simple RELEVENT answer out of them. Stay tuned i'll get an appropriate answer or else!

[RaveN1814]

Originally Posted by builthatch

strange, ill get in the middle of this and see wtf is going on. ill report back with some info.

update: Brian, i think, is not the contact i am going with anymore...i have contacted someone over at regular Crower to see WTF is going on here. I hate aggravation like this simply because I am promoting a product that i am not making money on, and when a referred contact hits them up, like you, you'd think we would have an easier time getting a simple RELEVENT answer out of them. Stay tuned i'll get an appropriate answer or else!

Thanks builthatch, you rule.

[mugenej8power]

kinda OT, but jus wanna say I will be purchasing a SMSP header for D-series hopefully next week! It's the 1st thing I been able to buy for my car in a year. Being a highschool student these past 3 years of having the car it and not getting a lot of money from work and having a gf has had funds extremely tight. a long with gas prices! Now that I"m outta highschool, about to get a new job and start school in the fall I have the $$. a skunk2 cam gear and crower stg2 cam should be in the works atfer this along with something to tune the car with. probably hondata s300.

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by RaveN1814

Thanks builthatch, you rule.

haha...that's crazy!

so i talked to Dustin @ Crower...he said there is no bitterness or anything over there with Brian starting his own thing and they communicate often, he said it might have been a bad day for him or something. at any rate, dustin is indeed a better contact at this point for the d series crower stuff. he said they will continue to sell and develop stuff for the D.

he said with your car that the stage 2 is a better choice; the compression is not high enough to take advantage of the stage 3, the cylinder pressures would not be as high with the stage 3 as they would be with the stage 2.

i think you should maybe email him, dustin@crowerX.com (take out the X) and give him a summary of the situation so you can hear it from the horses mouth and also he can get used to people from here emailing him lol

[RaveN1814]

Originally Posted by SCCRules

kinda OT, but jus wanna say I will be purchasing a SMSP header for D-series hopefully next week! It's the 1st thing I been able to buy for my car in a year. Being a highschool student these past 3 years of having the car it and not getting a lot of money from work and having a gf has had funds extremely tight. a long with gas prices! Now that I"m outta highschool, about to get a new job and start school in the fall I have the $$. a skunk2 cam gear and crower stg2 cam should be in the works atfer this along with something to tune the car with. probably hondata s300.

Ha ha, gf's tend to suck up funds. I feel ya bro.

[RaveN1814]

Originally Posted by builthatch

haha...that's crazy!

so i talked to Dustin @ Crower...he said there is no bitterness or anything over there with Brian starting his own thing and they communicate often, he said it might have been a bad day for him or something. at any rate, dustin is indeed a better contact at this point for the d series crower stuff. he said they will continue to sell and develop stuff for the D.

he said with your car that the stage 2 is a better choice; the compression is not high enough to take advantage of the stage 3, the cylinder pressures would not be as high with the stage 3 as they would be with the stage 2.

i think you should maybe email him, dustin@crowerX.com (take out the X) and give him a summary of the situation so you can hear it from the horses mouth and also he can get used to people from here emailing him lol

I'm going to e-mail dustin right now. Thank you very much builthatch.

[RaveN1814]

Hey, builthatch, I just read this in another thread and I wanted to know what your opinion was/if there was any validity behind it.

Originally Posted by Zfreak

I'm a qualified machinist, and made my own set of high compression pistons, and do my own head work, and i would definetly not recommend going over 10.5:1. the stroke/bore ratio is way too high. in a b-series engine, it's fairly oversquare, so the rods are much less stressed with less TDC/BDC acceleration, deceleration. the D-series engines were built for a smooth torque curve, and efficiency. still, they'll turn 10 grand, and you CAN run a 12:1 comp ratio, but you need to remap the shit out of your ECU, and do a bunch of other bullshit that'll not even make it worth it. and FINALLY, when you get it running right, you'll bust a rod bearing, or burn a piston, and spend all your bucks just trying to get it going. if you're dead set on suicidal compression levels, make sure you get your chambers re-shaped to reduce pinging, and get a good set of forged rods, and colder plugs. believe me, besides the sound of it happening, there's usually nothing worse than pulling a grenaded engine apart and peering at the carnage. by the way, my z6 turns 160 at the wheels at 10.6:1 (with a shitload of other work too) . i wish i'd just swapped a b-series. just kidding.

Well...?

[RaveN1814]

bump for info from builthatch....

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by RaveN1814

Hey, builthatch, I just read this in another thread and I wanted to know what your opinion was/if there was any validity behind it.



Well...?

he seems to have merged two points incorrectly. It's true, the d16 is undersquare, so piston speeds will be high due to the stroke, and accompanying deceleration will be high, esp. considering the weight of the parts we use to build these coupled with higher compression, etc etc etc. that's obvious and it's true that if you revved it like it should not be revved, it'll put incredible stress on components, but the problem is- if an engine has a long stroke (undersquare), you can take advantage of it's plusses without hurting a thing. If you add compression, and use the right cam shaft timing and associated parts have the right modifications to suit the breathing, you maximize the power band without revving high, and revving high with an undersquare setup is where things can get hairy. The idea is to get maximum cylinder pressure at the right time, everytime. as i mentioned, you do this by tuning, adding compression, and opening/closing the valves at the right time. high revs are not a part of the formula for making alot of power with a D. i'd be interested in seeing what the power graph looks like of his setup as well as a modification list.

[RaveN1814]

Thanks for the info builthatch, also, this might sound stupid BUUUTT, I JUST found out that Endyn is located HERE, where I live, well, not where I live, close to where I live, point is they're not located on the moon. For some stupid reason everytime I looked at their site I always assumed they were located somewhere far away in a magical far away land, because thats how my luck ususally works. Anyways, I'm stoked that they're here in Texas, because now I know where I'm taking my engine to get completely re-built. Including the stage 3 crower cam and 12ish compression. Thanks for clarifying everything builthatch.

[builthatch]

congrats to Urban Racer for translating this into French!

http://www.japancar.fr/forum/viewtop...321257#1321257

http://www.virusteamjapan.com/vtjfor...495&highlight=

http://ejsquad.xooit.fr/t111-Pr%E9pa...htm?highlight=

[RaveN1814]

HA! That's great!

[Urban Racer]

Hehe thanks! I did this to show my love to you and to the whole D Series Community! I hope I'll be able to achieved my build by next year! Parts are bit more expensive in France so it takes time to gather everything!

[CiViC_SI]

First off great info this has answered alot of questions that i had. Since i already have all the parts i was looking at building an all motor z6 since i have three of them. has anyone used the comp cam for this build i already have this camand how well will it do? second i have a set of jdm ITR injectors to go in that motor does anyone know the cc's of this injector? they came out of a 97 ITR if that makes a difference. i was thinking about building a set of itb's would this do good with the high compression build. i have a hp racing header and 2.5 in exhaust on the car already and a ractive cai for a 99-00 civic si stock intake and tb and a b&m fpr. is this setup ok to run with 12.0 compression ratio?

Thanks


Great thread

[builthatch]

Originally Posted by CiViC_SI

First off great info this has answered alot of questions that i had. Since i already have all the parts i was looking at building an all motor z6 since i have three of them. has anyone used the comp cam for this build i already have this camand how well will it do? second i have a set of jdm ITR injectors to go in that motor does anyone know the cc's of this injector? they came out of a 97 ITR if that makes a difference. i was thinking about building a set of itb's would this do good with the high compression build. i have a hp racing header and 2.5 in exhaust on the car already and a ractive cai for a 99-00 civic si stock intake and tb and a b&m fpr. is this setup ok to run with 12.0 compression ratio?

Thanks


Great thread

good luck on your proposed build!

to address your questions-

no clue on the comp cam with a build like this

the ITR/CTR injectors are 280cc

ITB's of course would be wonderful if done properly with a correctly tuned setup. to be honest...i'd stick with the simple route and use more traditional honda parts and induction bits.

the parts you listed are marginal- the header is iffy for the upper-tier numbers, but it's useable. like i've mentioned in the write-up, the only header i can recommend is SMSP. the fueling should be tuned via the ecu- the FPR is only good for one thing and even that one thing is not necessary- i've been told in the past by a very knowledgeable d legend that a bump in feed pressure to 55psi can help with atomization vs. the stock pressure.