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Old 05-08-2010, 09:40 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default B20Z2 ?

Hello everyone,
I need some advise first, before I start a new project with a B20Z block.
I'm pretty much know what I want or the direccion where I'm going with this project.

1st: I would like to know which B16 NON Vtec cylinder would be the right one for this block. Yes, I'm going NA high comp. pistons with ITBs.

2nd: Also, what kind of NON hydraulic tranny with a LSD would be the right one for this set up.

Chassis: 1989 EF Civic Si

Any other input on harness, axles, spindle/knuckle/hub, etc...
would be appreciated.

If you have any pics. of any B20Z on a EF would be A+
Thanks.
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
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non vtec b16 head? huh

gonna be one doodoo slow engine if its a non vtec B series all motor. take the extra step and make all the monet worth while anduse a good vtec b series head.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
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non vtec b16 head? huh

gonna be one doodoo slow engine if its a non vtec B series all motor. take the extra step and make all the monet worth while anduse a good vtec b series head.
Thats just plain out misinformation. You dont have to use a vtec head to make good power. There are a fuck ton of good b series non vtec NA builds. Its not gonna make the same power out of the box simply because of the head design on a non vtec head but it can flow just as much with some work.


the non vtec b16 head is funny tho lol
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thats just plain out misinformation. You dont have to use a vtec head to make good power. There are a fuck ton of good b series non vtec NA builds. Its not gonna make the same power out of the box simply because of the head design on a non vtec head but it can flow just as much with some work.


the non vtec b16 head is funny tho lol
yeah??? show me one to prove this.

175whp is not powerfull. the Ls heads flow about like a D series. so how is this not true? if we were talkng boost yeah, LS head is fine, but for motor????? come on now. you would save so much wasted money and time.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
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yeah??? show me one to prove this.

175whp is not powerfull. the Ls heads flow about like a D series. so how is this not true? if we were talkng boost yeah, LS head is fine, but for motor????? come on now. you would save so much wasted money and time.
175whp is enough to run a low 13 second pass in a EF. Thats not exactly slow for a street car. Shit look on honda-tech there's a huge non vtec NA thread. Just because it doesn't flow worth a shit from the factory doesn't mean it cant. Will it be a little more expensive, yea probably but it can still be done. Just because it goes against the grain and so many people are obsessed with vtec motors doesn't mean everyone has to. I've made 150+ on a shitty d-series head and only had 2k in the entire build including buying the car.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
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with the proper parts and block work, high ct, very good tune and a LOT of headwork you can break 200 but its not gonna be street friendly. btw there is an ls head that flows better then the reg b18a1/b1 or b20. it has vtec sized valves as well if i recall on the intake not sure about the exaust. to be reaslisic and not pour a fortune into an all motor non vtec you'll get more bang for buck goin full swap to a vtec motor or an lsv setup on the same bottom end.

edit: the head im talking about is from a b20 but i cant rember what the code was.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MEERVINCENT View Post
with the proper parts and block work, high ct, very good tune and a LOT of headwork you can break 200 but its not gonna be street friendly. btw there is an ls head that flows better then the reg b18a1/b1 or b20. it has vtec sized valves as well if i recall on the intake not sure about the exaust. to be reaslisic and not pour a fortune into an all motor non vtec you'll get more bang for buck goin full swap to a vtec motor or an lsv setup on the same bottom end.

edit: the head im talking about is from a b20 but i cant rember what the code was.
You also have to factor in the price of either A) A vtec head , plus the conversion parts to do it, then pay someone to do it if your not able. Or B) Do like you said and buy whole swap, still gonna be close to the same price of doing the non vtec


My point is, vtec is not some magic word that automatically makes power lol. Its the head thats making the power because it can flow good from the factory.
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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You also have to factor in the price of either A) A vtec head , plus the conversion parts to do it, then pay someone to do it if your not able. Or B) Do like you said and buy whole swap, still gonna be close to the same price of doing the non vtec


My point is, vtec is not some magic word that automatically makes power lol. Its the head thats making the power because it can flow good from the factory.
NO SHIT. you think im a newb? NO SHIT the casting flows better. goo dlord. why the hell else would I be sayig this? otherwise CAMS would have fixed his problem. smh. you would think u could read, seein under mhy name im building a F22A1 wait wait...is that non vtec?? oh it sure is. why am I using that? the casting flows better than the vtec one on F series. im not sayin vtec for vtec im no dummy dude.

and vtec heads are cheap, guy just sold 3 on here mint for $250-300.
but either way in the end for a more street able faster cheaper car. the vtec head will do it. but if you are tryn to do non vtec go for it. no such thing as a non vtec b16 unless ur using vtec eliminator cams.
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I never said you were a newb sir so no need to get all pissy. For the price of a b16 head, which varies like you said, you can pick up a set of cams for the non vtec.


I've either wrenched/tuned on or owned basically any combination honda motor other than a K. For a street car i'd rather have a nice usable power band of the non vtec.

I say we agree to disagree lol because this debate has gone on loooooooong before you and I started lol. Its apples and oranges

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Old 05-08-2010, 11:15 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I never said you were a newb sir so no need to get all pissy. For the price of a b16 head, which varies like you said, you can pick up a set of cams for the non vtec.
and still be SOL on a shitty flowing casting.and have shitty MPG now and then ud have to port it to make it 3/4 as good as a vtec casting. to me b series is useless non vtec unless boosted. vtec is just where its at on those series.
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
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you can massage a lot of love into an ls head tho. it all what you want. i will say that your right in the fact that an non vtec can be much more street friendly due to the flatter power curve but when your near stock outputs i cant see that being a factor. it only when your looking at breaking the 100/litre at the wheels mark that its an issue. then if your in that area with an non vtec whats your idle gonna be like lol.

edit: just do what you thinks best we all got opinions
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:27 AM   #12 (permalink)
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you can massage a lot of love into an ls head tho. it all what you want. i will say that your right in the fact that an non vtec can be much more street friendly due to the flatter power curve but when your near stock outputs i cant see that being a factor. it only when your looking at breaking the 100/litre at the wheels mark that its an issue. then if your in that area with an non vtec whats your idle gonna be like lol.

edit: just do what you thinks best we all got opinions
Most of the time , even with a larger cam you can adjust the tune so it idles good. Most tuners leave the lumpy idle because people like it. Again tho, just depends on HOW big the cam is lol. Like a 405 isnt gonna love to idle at all lol
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Old 05-08-2010, 12:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
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*facepalm*

way to sound like a typical honda fanboy.

VTEC is not the reason for vtec heads making good power, they make good power because they heads are well designed and have a agressive high-cam profile.
You can take a Non-vtec head and put good cams in it to get most of the way there, then with a little port and combustion chamber work and its just as good if not better.

Almost all of the honda race engines are non-vtec, but I guess they have no idea what they are talking about.
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Old 05-08-2010, 01:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Heres my question Magic Wheels, First do you want to go non-vtec for sure? If so i think a gsr head on the b20z block with a bisimoto non-vtec gsr cam...since the gsr head is a great flowing head. I would also figure out what compression you want to run since you eventually want ITBs which love high comp along with a nice cam.

Also what parts do you already have for this set up?
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Old 05-08-2010, 04:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MEERVINCENT View Post
with the proper parts and block work, high ct, very good tune and a LOT of headwork you can break 200 but its not gonna be street friendly. btw there is an ls head that flows better then the reg b18a1/b1 or b20. it has vtec sized valves as well if i recall on the intake not sure about the exaust. to be reaslisic and not pour a fortune into an all motor non vtec you'll get more bang for buck goin full swap to a vtec motor or an lsv setup on the same bottom end.

edit: the head im talking about is from a b20 but i cant rember what the code was.
i believe u are talking about a pr8 head if im right
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Old 05-08-2010, 06:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Heres my question Magic Wheels, First do you want to go non-vtec for sure? If so i think a gsr head on the b20z block with a bisimoto non-vtec gsr cam...since the gsr head is a great flowing head. I would also figure out what compression you want to run since you eventually want ITBs which love high comp along with a nice cam.

Also what parts do you already have for this set up?
I'm 100% sure that I'm going non-vtec. I'm a little bit concern
about the comp. I know it's have to be around 11.0:1 to 12.0:1

The parts that I have at this moment it's the block. But, this project
I probably going to started on Aug. or Sept. no sooner or later than that.
That's why I need to know by now which non-vtec cyl. head it's good
for this project, so that way I'm going to start searching for the cyl. head
internals.
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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And thats why i said get a b18c head and get a non-vtec bisimoto cam, call bisimoto and tell him you're set up and dont worry about compression, you'll be around 11-1 just with a normal headgasket which is still pretty low, id go atleast 12-1, but thats me. Here I'll point you in the right direction for cams...Level 3, Stellite enhanced B-regrind, non-vtec - $669.00 : Bisimoto Engineering, Where Efficiency Meets Technological Perfection!

For the b18c head I would check craigslist, d-series for sale, ebay, or local junk yard. Then when you get the head id rebuild it, port it well, resurface it as well as the block, and get better valve springs.

Hope you got more questions.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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btw you are in a sohc forum, yes theres lots of people on here with b swaps, but still...

there is alot of shitty ass information in this thread as well...

ls and b20 share the same cylinder head, and they are ALL cast with pr4 stamps in the headcode...

you want a non vtec b16 head, call up toda or crower or bisi get some vtec killer cams...

and by the way b16 head flows better then a gsr... gsr heads ports are setup differently why do u think they use b16 heads when they build type r motors...

if you want to do a nice b20 build... get some rs machines itr pistons a b16 head with some good port work, itb's or a good ass intake manifold that will flow really good, a good race header vtec killer cams and rocker assembely, and you should be close if not past 200whp range...

heres your price list...

b20 block- 600
b16 head- 400
rs itr pistons- 300 (with bearings and rings)
itb's - 1000
or good intake like victor x edelbrock 500
good race header 600-1000
vtec killer cams 800+
headwork from a reputable shop 600-1400
machine work 200-500


or you can just go b20 turbo and make more power be faster and cheaper in the end
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Quote:
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can you tell me how to hook up a vtech switch?
i want it on the new steering wheel i got at pep boys. have you seen it its sick!
but if i hook up the vtech i can have it at like whatever rpms i want right?
like vtech all the time? will it pop louder?
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Scat and Eagle both do bore and stroke kits for B20 engines with H beams and forged pistons.

That would be a very good foundation under a B16 vtec head with or without Vtec cams.

Non vtec can be just as powerful, or just as tractable or just as economical as a vtec, but it can't be all three at once like a vtec can be.

I see no advantage in non vtec other than less cost and complexity.

There is an advantage with using the best head casting no matter what the valve train. That would seem to be the B16 vtec head. I don't know if there are different versions or different casting numbers.

Someone daid this is a SOHC forum. Actually it is a D series forum. D series also has one DOHC engine as well as a bunch of SOHC engines.
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Old 05-09-2010, 03:00 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Great are we effin gonna argue about the best flowing b head? We all know its the b18c5 head. Ok now that's aside the b16 vtec head or the b18c head are both good heads either one will do the trick ported. Yes a b16 head might flow better than a gsr head. Just find one of the two, whichever is a better deal for the time being.
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