DIY Stage two 92-95 civic rear brake upgrade

[gpny]

Originally Posted by remoer

i have a 290v bb w/ a 1" mc not installed yet. by what gpny, Eyal 951, and danny(lxpata) they stated you get no modulation. the second you press the pedel you're braking...

Yup, remo is right...
1" mc kills modulation... the 4pot fronts helped regain some of it...

[Boosted91]

OK I got a phone call tonight from brian at fast brakes and used that chance to ask him all the questions that have been brought up in this thread. here they are in no particular order.
1 are type s and base model brackets the same, answer yes just for some reason honda may give them a different part number.

2 what other calipers can be used, answer ITR rear calipers are direct bolt on, EP3 and RSX also bolt on but the bleeders will face down and thus cannot be bled properly with out unbolting them and turning them upside down.

3 why did i have to shave down some of my brake pads, answer either i did not turn the caliper in until it bottomed out or the pads i got happened to be at the max thickness tolerance allowed by a manufacture or a combo of both.

4 whats the deal with prop valves and whats with the stampings on them. answer first we have to understand how a prop valve actually works, many people think it always biases the pressure from front to rear, the fact is it dont work like this, at first the pressure front to rear is the exact same until a certain level is reached and then a valve opens and starts biasing more pressure to the front, he also said in all his research he never was able to find a difference inside between a DX and a SI prop valve other then honda stamped them differently, in fact he said for the EK he used to have honda used the same part number for the DX and the SI , but for some other models the part number is/may be different, just like the RSX brackets he said he doesnt know why honda does this, but its the same with the z6 head gasket its a different part number then the y8 yet its the same gasket and honda charges more for the z6, he said he has sold over 100 rear brake upgrades and has never had any one ever come up with any difference in braking between the DX and Si prop valve, he went on to say some people over time have heard that you must run the Si one and have just assumed its the gospel truth and it has spread as being fact when indeed all his research has not been able to prove they are indeed different inside.

any way thats about all we talked about, if any of you have any questions that i didnt cover please feel free to contact brian himself as i cant and wont pretend to know half as much as he does. his website is www.fastbrakes.com

[carpenter_22]

very good

[Levi]

very good info right there! i am glad you got to the bottom of a few of the questions I had. the rest of my parts arrive today for the 10.2" rear upgrade. I will be saving this for a weekend project unless I get some time in the next 2 days.

[99EJ6T]

Originally Posted by Boosted91

in fact he said for the EK he used to have honda used the same part number for the DX and the SI

i have been saying that for the last 3 years on this site....

anywho.. the 30/30 one that was on EJ1 Scrappin's car originally was swapped out for a 40/40. to me it felt like there was a difference, maybe it was a placebo. guess someone will have to tear a 30/30 and 40/40 apart to test the spring inside.

[Boosted91]

Originally Posted by 99EJ6T

i have been saying that for the last 3 years on this site....

anywho.. the 30/30 one that was on EJ1 Scrappin's car originally was swapped out for a 40/40. to me it felt like there was a difference, maybe it was a placebo. guess someone will have to tear a 30/30 and 40/40 apart to test the spring inside.

yeah i asked him what the 3030 and 4040 meant and he said he could not ever figure that out, probably just hondas different stamping, the same as the RSX brackets the type s have a different stamping then then base , yet are the same so go figure.

[99EJ6T]

Originally Posted by Boosted91

the same as the RSX brackets the type s have a different stamping then then base , yet are the same so go figure.

the RSX thing might be due to assembly location. i have found that honda separates the parts it uses in its plants in japan vs plants in north america. but as time passes (when the parts start coming from one plant and used world wide), honda combines the part numbers to make one genaric part number for parts that are technically the same part.

Originally Posted by Boosted91

yeah i asked him what the 3030 and 4040 meant and he said he could not ever figure that out, probably just hondas different stamping

it MIGHT be the same thing as above. but seeing as prop valves don't really go bad, i could see them continueing to separate the part numbers. i will be upgrading the rear brakes on my EH3, from drum to disc (past owner swapped disc to drum), and will look into it. seeing as 40/40 teg prop valves are everywhere and dirt cheap.

[Hellhatch]

Nice upgrade good call on the bleeders i overlooked that. I have a 99-00si setup on the back right now. But i also have 02-06 rsx front and rear calipers and brackets in my garage. I was gonna use the e-brake attachment lever and e-brake cable guide from the 99-00si and bolt it to the rsx caliper to solve the e-brake issue its a direct bolt on and use 02-03 ep3 rotors. Since you made me aware of the bleeder issue maybe i'll just use the 99-00 si calipers and shave down the brake pads this way i just have to swap brackets and rotors. Good info thanks.

[Boosted91]

Originally Posted by Hellhatch

Nice upgrade good call on the bleeders i overlooked that. I have a 99-00si setup on the back right now. But i also have 02-06 rsx front and rear calipers and brackets in my garage. I was gonna use the e-brake attachment lever and e-brake cable guide from the 99-00si and bolt it to the rsx caliper to solve the e-brake issue its a direct bolt on and use 02-03 ep3 rotors. Since you made me aware of the bleeder issue maybe i'll just use the 99-00 si calipers and shave down the brake pads this way i just have to swap brackets and rotors. Good info thanks.

you may not have to shave the pads, I may not have turned the calipers in all the way and or might have purchased extra thick pads, try assembling before you shave the pads and let us know how you make out, levi and remo are also doing this so they can also fill us in on if they had to shave the pads.

[Levi]

I am not able to load my pics currently but I completed this as well last night. Here is what I found.

* You do have to sand down the rsx pads. this was a complete nightmare as the pads i have are a ceramic. there is a lot of material to be removed for this to fit right. You could also have your rotors turned to compensate as well, I chose to remove pad material.

* The splash guard / debris shield that is behind the rotor needs to be trimmed or removed. I chose to just remove it. With some patience and time you could trim this to fit the rsx caliper bracket. The shield gets in the way of bolting the caliper bracket on.

* The caliper brackets do indeed not matter which side is which.

Everything works as it should. I have not done anything with it except drive it to work so far. I will load pics when I can get ahold of a sd card reader.

[Boosted91]

Originally Posted by Levi

I am not able to load my pics currently but I completed this as well last night. Here is what I found.

* You do have to sand down the rsx pads. this was a complete nightmare as the pads i have are a ceramic. there is a lot of material to be removed for this to fit right. You could also have your rotors turned to compensate as well, I chose to remove pad material.

* The splash guard / debris shield that is behind the rotor needs to be trimmed or removed. I chose to just remove it. With some patience and time you could trim this to fit the rsx caliper bracket. The shield gets in the way of bolting the caliper bracket on.

* The caliper brackets do indeed not matter which side is which.

Everything works as it should. I have not done anything with it except drive it to work so far. I will load pics when I can get ahold of a sd card reader.

good deal, however my splash shields bolted right back on no problems, but i did yank them out a little before i unbolted them just cause i thought the new brackets might stick back further. cant wait to see pics we should keep track of what pads fit best to, that or just suggest that those who cant shave pads get the rotors turned a little like i did in my OP.

[Levi]

i snapped this really quick outside of work. the other camera has the install pics. this is just the final product. i will upload the rest later.

[Boosted91]

lets see them other pics

[Levi]

Originally Posted by Boosted91

lets see them other pics

fine asswipe.

old set up.



stripped down



comparing rotors



here you can see the difference in size. the 94 integra rotor is on top of the ep3 rotor



just chillin like a chicken in a bucket. this was prior to me bolting the caliper on and finding that on my particular set up i had to remove the debris shield



all finished.

[Boosted91]

looks good

[khrys771]

can you still use the rsx/ep3 calipers even though the bleeder is wrong? is there away around that with out buying another set of calipers?

[cminded_97]

I noticed that the fork on the caliper only comes down a little over half pad. Isn't it going to grab more at the top instead of grabbing evenly? Great write up! Just something I noticed.

[Boosted91]

Originally Posted by cminded_97

I noticed that the fork on the caliper only comes down a little over half pad. Isn't it going to grab more at the top instead of grabbing evenly? Great write up! Just something I noticed.

nope the pads are not flexible and thus half way down is plenty to put uniform pressure on the pad and rotor. i have over 500 miles on my rear and now that they are broke in i have been doing some hard brake testing and they work awesome, i also got my front done and master cyl to but i didnt have my camera to take those pics. it stops like no civic should be able to stop now lol.

[Boosted91]

Originally Posted by khrys771

can you still use the rsx/ep3 calipers even though the bleeder is wrong? is there away around that with out buying another set of calipers?

bleed them with the caliper not mounted so u can face the bleeder up, just use the teg calipers that you should already have from doing the disk conversion any way and you dont have to buy new calipers.

[str8venom99]

just got mine all done and yes the ep3/rsx calipers have to be bled unmounted with the bleeder screw facing up