Scca Classification! Please

[golferman15]

Ok so did my first autocross event on sunday with my 1997 honda civic ex, with header, short ram intake, and just a high flow muffler and they put me in the STS class.

My actual race car is still in the midst of getting worked on and I was wondering what class I would be in? I have a 1994 honda civic coupe with a
jdm b16 sir 2 engine and tranny in it with no lsd whatsoever. The engine has no powersteering and no air conditioning. It also has a 4-1 header with no cat and a short ram air intake with a high flow muffler but I have all stock exhaust piping. For suspension I have tokico hp blue shocks/struts and H and R sport springs with front and rear upper strut bar towers. I also have all rear polyurethane bushings put in except I have the oem rear trailing arm bushings. I am planning on putting in the front poly bushings in but not til after my next race because of time constraints.

I have been reading the scca classifications and can't figure out what class I would go in? Sorry if this is the wrong section to post this in, moderators feel free to move it.

Also, if these mods put me into a way high classification would there be 1 or 2 simple things that I could do to my car to maybe drop into a lower class.

Thanks for your time, golferman15

[TransformedBG]

Your going to fall into a prepared class. Because you have a swap in your car you have to fall in to a higher/faster class.

My 01 civic falls under something like C prep cause i have a k-swap and SC...

You could run in NASA in like the H1/H2 class i belive

[golferman15]

NASA is totally different then SCCA right? but that is what I was thinking I was leaning alot towards the C Prep class! Thanks
Sorry I guess I didn't specify that I was doing SCCA! lol

[TransformedBG]

Yeah NASA is different but if you want to use that car and not get owned then it would be the way to go.

I do local auto X's in my SC'ed Civic, in most we created a new class called SSM where basically you can have what ever mods you want just have to have a tire with a tread wear of 150 or greater.

Other than that remember when running SCCA read the rules then build car to suit rules.

[hondajosh]

Do you have interior in the car?

[golferman15]

yes I have full interior in the car, If I totally gutted it would it put me in a diff class?

[latapx]

with an interior and a swap you can run Street Mod. With no interior and a swap you'll fall into a prepared class....most likely CP from what I've read. In either case, you're likely to get killed with a car that has limited preparation so just go out there and have fun and don't worry too much about the times.

[golferman15]

So what other preparation could i do to my car to make it more competitive?

[shifty35]

Stuff in street mod is usually stuff with some wild suspension and power adders. You could turbo your B16 up to God knows how much hp and stay in the same class...

Or, see if your local club has a street tire PAX as suggested... they are more a "run what ya brung" kinda class, where everyone on street tires competes.

[vietnameeh]

its actually gonna be in E prepared if u plan on running aprepared class.. since you already have a swap... just take out the rear seats and that will keep you legal for SM

[golferman15]

So you are saying that I will be running in the E prepared category as of right now? but if I take out the rear seats then I will run in SM? wouldn't I want to run in the E prepared rather than the SM class?

[vietnameeh]

no im saying i u decide to gut your car EP will be ur class...

trust me EP is real crazy class u dont want to be in there, SM is crazy too but either way your pretty much have no choice...

i say run SM ... leave your interior if u want your allowed to remove the backseats in SM..

[golferman15]

So what makes me go into EP or SM rather then CP? I have a friend with a swap in his civic and it is chipped with slicks. Granted it is not a jdm swap but it is still a swap. Does the fact that I have a jdm swap put me into the EP or SM category depending on if I strip the car or not? I do not have slicks, I just have all season goodyear eagle gt/hr's.

[TransformedBG]

If i were you i would just compete in STS.. you don't need a lot of power for that class. But you can do suspension work as long as it mounts to you stock points. You will have a more competitive PAX time too. I bought my hatch just so i could do this. STS your limited to a few things, intake, header, manifold, etc but its worth it.

[golferman15]

my red 1997 honda civic ex is strictly my daily driver otherwise I would. I bought my other car with the b16 in it to be my track car and I have dropped alot of money in it to make it so, so sts class is not an option. there is about a 1-2 second difference between the fastest times in the sts, ep, cp, and sm classes.

[TransformedBG]

my red 1997 honda civic ex is strictly my daily driver otherwise I would. I bought my other car with the b16 in it to be my track car and I have dropped alot of money in it to make it so, so sts class is not an option. there is about a 1-2 second difference between the fastest times in the sts, ep, cp, and sm classes.

Sadly this is what a lot of people do. thats what i did with my K-swapped Supercharged EM2.. I was like well more power, its only a civic.... Thinking i could go in any class i wanted. Yeah i still have full interior and can run a 13.3 but when it came to auto-Xing it, i get owned even though im fast, im not fast enough. I have to run in C prep. So i sacrificed power and made my EM2 my DD and drag car, and take el hatchie to the track for some serious corner carving!

And the PAX time in EP, CP, and SM should be more like:
STS 0.816
STS2 0.818
SM 0.860
CP 0.864
EP 0.861

thats whats going to get you the points. The difference in real time in the classes is where your really going to get owned.

[golferman15]

so you don't think I can be competitive? I guess I don't get the whole pax thing and the whole point system. There are crx's that have smaller engines then me and run in bigger classes then me and are competitive in the higher classes. I guess I just don't get the whole picture.

[TransformedBG]

PAX is a method of handicapping cars. It's also known as RTP (Racers Theoretical Performance).

Cars are assigned handicaps based on their make/model/year and level of modification. These handicaps are based on actual performance of cars that have run in SCCA National events, and are determined by the national PAX administrator. They are used to judge performances at the national level, and are accepted by all competition entrants.

The most modified car is "A Modified", which gets a score of 1.00, so it's time would not be adjusted at all. Everything else gets multiplied by a figure that you could call a PAX handicap.

Here's an example:
Car Class Raw time PAX handicap PAX time PAX Result
'03 Corvette SS 50.00 .840 42.0 2
'04 Focus HS 53.25 .780 41.53 1
'04 Dodge SRT4 STU 52.45 .820 43.00 3

So the Focus that finished three seconds slower than the Vette actually wins based on PAX index.

PAX values are adjusted yearly. Click here for the most current PAX factors:
http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/
taken from http://www.autocross.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=1628

[TransformedBG]

anything you want to know can be found here
http://www.autocross.us/forums/index.php?showforum=15

[golferman15]

oh alright, that makes more sense now! thanks-a-bunch

[TransformedBG]

No prob.. It helps to know rules before you get started lol

[vietnameeh]

bigger engines smaller engines... faster higher classes?

it really jus comes down to the driver....

then once your at the point where your driver skills are up to par then comes the equipment

your in sm cause u have a swap... theres no other way out unless u want to swap back to the original motor

[Andy2000HB]

So i sacrificed power and made my EM2 my DD and drag car, and take el hatchie to the track for some serious corner carving!

This is what i'm going to be doing. My CRX is going to be the fun car that gets worked on, because it's already missing a little bit of interior and fender wells and such, and I'm doing the mpfi swap and blah blah blah, so it's immediately bumped out of stock or even sts. The ek hatch, on the other hand, will be getting a near stock suspension set-up in the relatively near future for me to learn to drive on and start auto-crossing hopefully. Then, if I want to take the rex out I can, or I can drive the hatch when i care about being competitive in my class.

[TransformedBG]

.... Then, if I want to take the rex out I can, or I can drive the hatch when i care about being competitive in my class.

Nice man that sounds like a good plan! Because being competitive is where you learn a lot! When your not competitive you tend to stress you and your car a lot more than normal. Doing things you shouldn't to catch up with everyone.

[Andy2000HB]

Nice man that sounds like a good plan! Because being competitive is where you learn a lot! When your not competitive you tend to stress you and your car a lot more than normal. Doing things you shouldn't to catch up with everyone.
I'm glad somebody thinks my plan is viable, lol. I threw the stiff suspension on the hatch a long time ago before I ever even thought about auto-cross, and then when I started thinking I might want to do that, I notice everyone stressing how important it is to start out with a stock car...

So once I got this CRX that already was missing stuff, and wouldn't be fun to drive stock (handles terribly), I decided to recycle these stiff ass Skunk2 full coilovers onto the CRX, and use the Tein H-Tech springs that came off my buddy's car with a new set of tokico blues. Still not legal for stock, but I figure with only like 10% stiffer rates and about 1" lower than stock, this set-up won't "mask mistakes" like the 500f 400r full coilover setup would, right? Cold air intake and a cat back set-up and I should be good to go for street class, even tho I'll still be way out classed, lol.


It'll be a rude awakening if i get into it hardcore with the almost stock hatch, and then one weekend bring out the CRX once it's going a lil quicker and has a nice suspension rig on it... lol...

[TransformedBG]

You should read this and know it well it will be your friend for STS
http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/street_touring.html#17.1.%20AUTHORIZED%20MODIFICAT IONS%20-%20STS

[latapx]

So what other preparation could i do to my car to make it more competitive?

I would recommend buying an SCCA rule book and studying it carefully. Due to your motor swap you are really limited as to where you can play. In either SM or whatever prepared class you would fall into, suspension is nearly unlimited. THis means that you couls use spherical bearings, any sway bars, any shocks, etc. There are minimum weights for each class which are going to be based on engine size and which wheels are driven. THe main difference is since SM is STREET Mod, you need to have a full interior...you are only allowed to remove the rear seat along with other minor changes (race seat, steering wheel, etc.). In prepared you can remove the entire interior, run lexan windows, etc. SM = DOT R compound tires, in prepared you can run slicks. There are a lot of differences, in either case your car is no where near the limits of preparation which is going to mean that you will not be competitive. If you are starting out in the sport, I would recommend to leave the car as it is and try to get as much seat time as possible. WOrk on the driver...once you begin to feel comfortable and have noticed an improvement in your driving, then continue to modify the car...one change at a time so that you can distinguish the differences and be sure that each modification is working properly. If you change too much at once, and there is a problem...then you won't be able to trace the problem down.