Any difference between D16A6 cam to ZC cam????

[civic 1 palo]

hey guys i need information if there is a difference between A6 cam to ZC cam???

[SupaStyl]

a half tooth mechanical timing difference i do belive, is youre talking bout the soch non vtec zc.

[transzex]

^^^clueless^^^

[civic 1 palo]

non vtec zc

[replica]

I posted a chart showing a measureable difference in the cam size. Of course, not many posted in the thread and those that did doubted the data. I have a hunch the sohc non-vtec zc cam is a little "bigger". Prepare for some of the D16A6 owners to tell you the sohc Zc cam is the exact same however...

[transzex]

until someone submits me a SOHC ZC cam for testing, I'll stand by my word they are the same.

Unless you know what you are doing and have a high dollar machine, your not gonna be able to read that 5 degree difference that was posted.

[remoer]

bones let them read my sig on this conversation we had a very long time ago.

[Richie_A_19]

Cams aren't voodoo. There isn't anything Honda can do to a cam to make it magically make more power than another cam.


I don't understand why this myth about the zc cam is still perputuated. The ZC is what, 15 years old? No one in the past 15 years had the gumption to measure the lobes? Better yet, I'm sure Honda has this info lying around somewhere.

Best idea yet, stop listening to people that guess and assume. If there is no proof of what the person is alleging, then is conjecture.

[DirtyDC4]

I don't understand why this myth about the zc cam is still perputuated. The ZC is what, 15 years old?

Mine isn't even 13 years old. :p

Bone, I'll send you mine as soon as I put in my Web regrind. Mine is from a '94 MPFI ZXi. :TU:

[Richie_A_19]

hush you. ;)

[transzex]

Mine isn't even 13 years old. :p

Bone, I'll send you mine as soon as I put in my Web regrind. Mine is from a '94 MPFI ZXi. :TU:

I'll have top pull the A6 cam out of the HB motor to compare back to back. I have my old notes (see sticky) but more accurate to verify past numbers.

If you read the sticky, you can see my notes from 1997 or so, and then again in 2006........repeatable I am.

Or I'll take them both to BES and put them on the $8,000 cam doctor :)

[DirtyDC4]

Hopefully, I'm doing the cam this Sunday. I'm going to Firebird on Friday night, shooting for a 14.9x @ 91.xx (or better if I can borrow some drag radials). Then, I'll go again next Friday and see what happens. :p

[Tyson]

until someone submits me a SOHC ZC cam for testing, I'll stand by my word they are the same.

Unless you know what you are doing and have a high dollar machine, your not gonna be able to read that 5 degree difference that was posted.

http://www.norcalcrx.org/tyson/SOHC_Cam.html

bone, the information on my page stands as TESTED and FACT.

ive pulled two MPFI SOHC ZC cams from the junkyard and tested them. they measured the same. and the numbers were exactly as Davens and Kwicko measured. except they had no idea they also had a Carburated cam on their hands. THAT cam has the slight difference off in timing and totally different lift measurements. and which their lift measurements were the same as mine on the 1 carburated ZC cam i measured.

3 cams (+2 carbed), tested by two different ppl, pretty much confirms it to me.


because they read other opinons, no hard facts. When one person tried to spec out the ZC cam, the lift was the same, but the duration was in 5 degree increments. The ZC they speced opened and closed the valves 5 degrees later, aka 5 degrees cam retard, same thing you can do with a adj. cam gear.

where are your "facts"?

[remoer]

are you the same tyson from h-t and crx community?

[transzex]

yeah, and until I measure for myself.......on my setup.....well.......

Oh yeah, local shop just bought this and said I could use it if needed.......

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_962683_-1?utm_source=email011608&utm_medium=email&utm_camp aign=05

[sl@sh]

sending in 2 camshafts to bisi... a d16a6 cam and a sohc zc non vtec cam...

i guess of all people.. bisi can tell me if theres a diff..

hmmm or i can send it to bones? hmmmm

shouldnt matter to me anyways.. its still a stock cam.. for all the trouble to figuring the diff out? il just spend money to get a better non stock cam...
thats because my time and troubles, is worth more than my money..


ofcourse others would disagree with how i see things, everyone got their own opinion anyways hehehe

[egriffith45]

until someone submits me a SOHC ZC cam for testing, I'll stand by my word they are the same.

Unless you know what you are doing and have a high dollar machine, your not gonna be able to read that 5 degree difference that was posted.

i've got a sohc zc cam you can test.

[Tyson]

good point that the importance of this detail is really not important at all. so i admit its all quite trivial. its just a stock cam really. nothing to get excited over.

its not my point to show that this cam is all that special. but it isnt the same. and it should be distinguished with the carburated cam too. for CERTAIN thats a different cam, i mean, its got an extra lump for the mechanical fuel pump.

i just dont get how ppl just dont want to "believe" in something other ppl already tested. i can understand confusion, and ignorance. but whats not to believe?

as for difference in stated horsepower? its just a number. yeah right the stock D16A6 is only "108hp". most underrated engine ever in that case. any stock A6 with basic IHE gets 110hp TO THE WHEELS. personally i think the major difference in power is the 4-1 A6 choker vs 4-2-1 free flower similar to the Z6 exhaust manifold that comes on the SOHC ZC MPFI. swapping that alone on my stock 88 A6 gives new life, with no other mods.

keep in mind that these MPFI SOHC ZC's are a generation after our D16A6's. so they got the head bolt design update, as well as the exhaust manifold. and apparent tweek in the cam. also, they were sold in integras, not civics.

and it seems just because "mista bone" says "its not the same", OTHER ppl are taking it as fact (yes you ryan.) so i find your sig, remoer, absurdly ironic.

for you guys testing a SOHC ZC cam, make sure its from the MPFI, not carbed. should be easy to tell once you see the fuel pump lobe at the distributor. but it should test differently than the stock A6 anyway.

[sl@sh]

yeah, i agree.. like i said.. its just a stock cam, so for me? its that , a stock cam lol...

yes the carb'd ones are diff.. or maybe not.. but atleast when comparing to a d16a6, use the sohc zc non vtec that's efi too...
like mine lol

[ryan89crx]

and it seems just because "mista bone" says "its not the same", OTHER ppl are taking it as fact (yes you ryan.)funny how you call me out, yet take my post out of context. NEVER did i say that what Bone claims was fact, so dont point fingers when its apparent you missed it by a longshot

the cam is slightly different but some argue that it is just a few degrees in cam timing that causes the part # to change.does that sound like i said it was fact? hmm...:roll:

[Tyson]

oh yeah, context...
and so [misinformation] continues...

the cam on the MPFI SOHC ZC is different in the intake lobe. slightly larger. identical timing. the cam on the carburated ZC is slightly different timing, slightly different lobe heights too.i guess it depends on who does the measuring. ive seen several conflicting measurements. saying that one is right because you believe so doesnt prove much either...

the thread that brought me here.
http://www.crxcommunity.com/viewtopic.php?p=127352#127352

still waiting to see "conflicting measurements".

[ryan89crx]

i see i have an e-stalker, i feel special :bravo:
question, did you come here to provide useful info? or just to be a pompous dick?

funny how in none of these threads, nobody described HOW the cam was measured. everyone likes to skirt around that part. the ht thread went damn near 4 pages before anyone would even talk about how it was measured, and the thread with you kwicko, and davens basically came to the same conclusion that Bone said, lobe spacing, or timing. everyone is supposed to take your word as fact, but when asked how it was measured, or to have some sort of proof other than "i said so", you would simply get pissy and become the asshole that you are famous for being.

[mightyjoecivic]

O'Doyle RULES!!!

:)
I dont know alot on how to read cam numbers, but I can tell you by looking at two main numbers that one is bigger than the other. If there is a difference between the two, it has to be very small. From what I have read over the time here through multiple questions and answers(all of which the same), its safe to say that its not worth the trouble. I think everyones getting all worked up because its a jdm cam and not a domestic cam(US A6 version). Just because its jdm, doesnt make it any better than the US version.

:alky:

[Tyson]

ryan, please read. apparently you missed it in all your ranting.



For someone who doesn't like hearsay, you're doing your own fair share.

You're questioning me and Kwickos work. Our measurements are probably the basis for just about everything you've read from "other sources".
We took the sohc zc cams from a fuel injected and carb'd version and compared them to a stock D16a6 cam.
All three were done with a very high dollar dial indicator mounted on the exact same jig that was made just for the test.
So the specs you see floating around are all very precise, especially when viewed relative to each other. The only initial confusion(that has been corrected for some time) was that the carb and fi version specs got switched around when transcribing from our shop notes to the chart we put online.

So you see, the cams are different. I have first hand knowledge, which makes it testimony, not hearsay.
Whether the cam difference can account for the 10 hp difference, you can argue about that all day, I don't care about that shit.

Tyson became the keeper of the specs because I got so sick of these stupid threads. He did some further research as well. Look for his posts or PM him for the most up to date info.
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1682885&page=3

i measured mine with a dial indicator as well. placed on a naked d16 head. i didnt bother measuring the angles. dont care quite frankly. the MPFI and A6 were visually identical to the naked eye at least. so im going with dave and kwicko's measurements. just peak lobe heights. which measured exactly. i had all 3 cams (MPFI, Carb and 90 A6, of my own) at my disposal. i found a second MPFI cam and it measured out the same as well.

again, why all the skepticism? what proof, fact, good are you inputing into this discussion?

[bricheun]

I got a Carbed ZC SOHC ~15000miles on it. Scrapped car from Japan after 3 years.

I am sending this over to Bisi for a Stage 2 , do you think he will involve in the measurement of this cam?

[transzex]

wait, so the carbed cams might have a different lobe seperation or overlap angle.

Do you know how to measure that?

Handa makes many cams along with engines. we've already seen design changes during mid production that were NOT reflected in the specs.

Until I, me, myself, and my spincter measure a KNOWN ZC cam on my setup, I dispute. In fact if I ever get one to measuire, I have to reset everything and dial in to the old measurements to dupicate exactly the test conditions.

[transzex]

Oh yeah, 2-3 things can happen by me measuring.

1) prove you wrong and I was right
2) prove I was wrong and you were right
3) prove neither one of us had a fucking clue and it's all magical pixie dust for emo kids to get all happy about.

One simple fact, no one has submitted a KNOWN ZC SOHC cam to me for checking.

With current tools I can map out the varible rocker ratio that Honda uses. Thing is each different base circle will effect the varible rocker ratio, but it's never talked about.

Fuck this shit, let's discuss R. Feynman's view on anti-gravity and you'll see I'm doing the exact same thing.

[remoer]

it's all magical pixie dust for emo kids to get all happy about.

OMFG!
:bigrofl:

[ryan89crx]

ryan, please read. apparently you missed it in all your ranting.apparently you missed it with your "better than everyone attitude"
the ht thread went damn near 4 pages before anyone would even talk about how it was measuredgee, from my reading, it looks like the end of page 3 :hammer:

[modsHXcivi]

This has gone no were fast......