? about dual springs and my build as of now, with 5 pics

[bbsccr01]

http://robearracing.com/pd_crower_valve_springretainer_set_d16z6.cfm

this is a link to the springs and retainers that I have been looking at getting. They are dual spring. Would this be overkill, or even applicable? I want to make sure my springs can handle the occasional 7000-8000 revs... this is my daily driver and my build is as follows, and I have some pics to show as well. Only five cause thats all that I can download... I have either got or fixing to get. most of this I got already, I'll say what I don't have

Block= staying stock, no sleeving or anything. did get new bearings
Clutch= still looking... prob stage 1, I haven't got yet
Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel 7lbs.
The head is ported intake and p/p on the exhaust side
looking at the duals for valve springs, I haven't got yet
superalloy valves, prob Ferreras, I haven't got yet
29063441T-D16Z Crower Stage 2 Turbo Cam
Fidanza Adjustable Cam Gear
Turbo=T3/T4 kit w/intercooler
Free Flowing cat and exhaust
190 lph Walbro fuel pump
450cc injectors w/resistor box
clear distributor and rotor
thermo tech wraps for turbo, headers and intake piping
blitz turbo timer
a/f ratio, oil pressure, egt, boost gauges
Vitara pistons @ 8:5.1 comp
eagle h beam rods
ARP head studs
fuel pressure gauge and regulator
AEM fuel rail
Golden Eagle Vacuum Manifold, I haven't got yet
I've also got some engine dress up stuff, like hoses, and stainless steel lines, etc....as there are other things that I have, just can't remember right now.
All is going to be managed with Crome
Big Brakes for the front and rear disc conversion for the rear, haven't got yet
Boost controller, I haven't got yet
Piecing together a 10 piece total body kit... (hood, front fenders, rear fender flares, front/back bumper, spoiler, sides skirts) which I haven't got yet either


the last pic, I don't like the manifold... really heavy and just ugly as hell, since the runners are short, is that going to be a prob? aslo, let me know about the springs. I'll post some more pics as I get more things in that I need to finish the build. And this is my first build, so please critique


http://www.d-series.org/forums//attachment.php?attachmentid=14746&stc=1&d=1179509214
DSCN0657.JPG
the head will go and be cleaned before reassymbled, and I've got some more shaving to do, this is just what I've done so far
http://www.d-series.org/forums//attachment.php?attachmentid=14747&stc=1&d=1179509214
DSCN0659.JPG
http://www.d-series.org/forums//attachment.php?attachmentid=14748&stc=1&d=1179509240
DSCN0668.JPG
http://www.d-series.org/forums//attachment.php?attachmentid=14749&stc=1&d=1179509240
DSCN0672.JPG
http://www.d-series.org/forums//attachment.php?attachmentid=14750&stc=1&d=1179509240
DSCN0660.JPG

[SOHC_STUDENT]

I would upgrade springs before I bought any of this:
-engine dress up stuff
-AEM fuel rail - stock rail is good for 400+
-clear distributor and rotor - world record is on stock dizzy, upgrade your coil if anything
-a/f ratio - worthless unless you run a wideband 02
-adjustable cam gear - don't need this unless you mill your head or deck your block
-10 piece total body kit - not my style but whatever

also:
get the 255 pump they're the same price as 190
what engine management?

[BLK92_D16]

Your stock z6 springs will handle the occassional 8k revs. I have a completely stock valvetrain and the limiter is at 7800. But as free flowly as your system might be, you might what to rev a little higher. Over 8 I'd definitely recommend upgrades!

[bbsccr01]

well, to the sohc student... the dress up stuff is not a big deal to the wallet, plus, i am not putting the engine in until all is bought. And that shouldn't take long to do. The fuel rail I know is good, but I wanted something that looks alil better, the clear distributor, not intended to run any faster with it, just wanted to see it all work... for shits and giggles, and I bought for 25 i think.
upgrade my coil, I posted a thread awhile back, and someone told me not to worry bout it. It should be fine, so now Im confused. should I or not, and I will buy a wideband O2. That is all needed to run Crome, as I said before. Ok, so no cam gear, I will use the stock, not a prob. and I like the kit, but my car will prob be stole not long afterwards... so I've kind of been rethinking that one. Kind of like show and tell, then get robbed. And as I've read thru out the forum, people seem to swap their 255 for 190s, due to noise and they have probs, from what I've read. The pump is already bought, so that stays, but thanks.

I would upgrade springs before I bought any of this:
-engine dress up stuff
-AEM fuel rail - stock rail is good for 400+
-clear distributor and rotor - world record is on stock dizzy, upgrade your coil if anything
-a/f ratio - worthless unless you run a wideband 02
-adjustable cam gear - don't need this unless you mill your head or deck your block
-10 piece total body kit - not my style but whatever

also:
get the 255 pump they're the same price as 190
what engine management?
__________________

[bbsccr01]

this is to BLK92_D16. you say that the stocks can survive the "occassional" 8k revs, and that I could go beyond that. Well, if I get those springs, how far then. All this is prob overkill, but I want to spend the money right and not worry bout it. I waiste more money doing so, but I can rest easier later and not replace my engine and then all will be lost anyways. Also, I got alil raise, so I can afford alil more now. I just want a very strong build. Thats what it comes down too and I am still a NOOB... thanks for the comments guys

[SOHC_STUDENT]

this is to BLK92_D16. you say that the stocks can survive the "occassional" 8k revs, and that I could go beyond that. Well, if I get those springs, how far then. All this is prob overkill, but I want to spend the money right and not worry bout it. I waiste more money doing so, but I can rest easier later and not replace my engine and then all will be lost anyways. Also, I got alil raise, so I can afford alil more now. I just want a very strong build. Thats what it comes down too and I am still a NOOB... thanks for the comments guys

upgrading springs will push the valve float higher into the rpm range, this will take care of valve to piston interference

however, reving above 7000 still puts extreme pressure on the connecting rods

Some people rev to 8 regularly but I think 7500 is a little more reasonable to ask of our motors.

[BLK92_D16]

He'll have H-beams, so the rods problem won't be there. Anything over 8k, me personally I'd upgrade. And it's not everyday that I hit 7800... Just those occassional jerks that cut me off or something and I just lose it and floor it around them!

But like you said, if you want reliability...go ahead and upgrade and set it at 8k. Most say you can't get much, if any, additional power after that pt anyways!

[bbsccr01]

ok. Thanks guys for the feedback. I won't push 8k all the time. Just here and there. I don't like going near 7k now. I just don't like seeing the needle inthe red. But, thanks. So, with all that has been listed, what kind of gains should be expected? anything near 250hp? Or is that pushing it. I will be running 13 psi. thats the stock spring... and as for anything else that I gave, what does it look like? all good or are there some things missed? what would you guys do, saying if you had the money to buy... I want to know

and for the valve springs, should I get the duals or will the others be fine. if so, give me a link as there are so many to choose from, and are they all interchangable? example..like will skunks valves work with ferrera retainers and another brand of valves... blah blah blah

[BLK92_D16]

You've got the Crower cam, so why not get the accompanying valve train?

[bbsccr01]

well, there is no prob with that, I just saw the dual springs and thought that would go real well with my build. And as for the mixing of brands, that was just a ? not something that I am going to do. Just curious.... well, I was going to buy diff valves cause I liked the super alloys. hell, should I even get those or just go ahead and purchase all crower. Being the stage 2 turbo cam with crower valves and springs/retainers. Would all that hold pretty well? As I said before, this is my first complete build and need alil guidence. Lots of thanks for the responses. And sorry for the repeated ?'s that I am sure you all have gave many times over to newbies just like me:TU: :TU: :TU:

[bbsccr01]

I just went to Crower and looked at some prices, the single valve springs are @ 165. And the duals are @315. would I be wasting money buying these and not even be worth it? its only 180 more. but if not needed, then thats 180 more in my wallet. can the singles perform well enough. Im sure they don't suck, just looking for alittle extra insurance.

[bbsccr01]

and should I upgrade to an external coil, like the msd's?

[DocHudson]

LOL Dual springs for the D?? Never knew crower had them..

CRO-84166 = Valve Spring & Ti Retainer SET = $ 315

CRO-68180-16 = Valve Spring only SET = $ 160

The pics on that ad = B series DUAL springs

[bbsccr01]

LOL Dual springs for the D?? Never knew crower had them..

CRO-84166 = Valve Spring & Ti Retainer SET = $ 315

CRO-68180-16 = Valve Spring only SET = $ 160

The pics on that ad = B series DUAL springs

well, it says d16z6 and y8... I have looked on other sites, they offer duals for the d, but their not crower... so they do make them. according to the sites. :hammer:

[transzex]

no need for duals springs with only 8000 rpm limit.

I'll be running Bisimoto nonVTEC springs :)

[bbsccr01]

alright, I will stick to reg springs... thanks trans

[transzex]

The higher spring rates = added friction = less hp to the wheels.

[bbsccr01]

lol. Hell, I didn't think about that. But, nonetheless I will stick to the reg Crower valve springs. That should even save me some money to put else where onthe car... thanks transzex for what its worth, I rep'd ya. But, I've got no points, so it kind means crap. but thanks again for the help guys:bravo:

[BLK92_D16]

Yeah, the duals for your build woulda been overkill... You be fine with singles with tit. retainers. Hell, if you want a little boost in compression, you can get some flat head valves too!

[bbsccr01]

flat head valves? Those aren't the kind of valves that I will be getting with the crowers? or is that where the valve angle job comes in to play????

[BLK92_D16]

^Nah, "regular" valves (including OEM) have a dish to them...but flat add just tenth or two pts of compression to help with the lower 8.5 compression!

[bbsccr01]

alright. I will have to remember that. would It be worth it getting a 3 angle valve job done on these crowers, or is that a waiste too? the shop says they'll do it and install the new ones and put it all back together for 340... if its not needed, then heck, I won't do it. I am kind of getting anxious and cant wait to put it all together.

[SOHC_STUDENT]

alright. I will have to remember that. would It be worth it getting a 3 angle valve job done on these crowers, or is that a waiste too? the shop says they'll do it and install the new ones and put it all back together for 340... if its not needed, then heck, I won't do it. I am kind of getting anxious and cant wait to put it all together.

3 angle valve job will improve airflow and help your valve seat tightly - if the head will be at a machine shop anyway, might as well have it done.

[K2e2vin]

I didn't read through the whole thread so I don't know if anyone pointed this out yet; Those aren't dual valve springs. The link is for Crower D16 VTEC valvetrain, but I'm pretty sure the guys on the board using that can confirm they're single. They make the dual valvesprings for the B/H/K engines.

[BLK92_D16]

These Hondas came from the factory with a 3-angle valve job, so the "flow" is good already. But it would hurt re-doing them to insure a proper fit against the valves!

[bbsccr01]

These Hondas came from the factory with a 3-angle valve job, so the "flow" is good already. But it would hurt re-doing them to insure a proper fit against the valves!


I am not going to use the stock valves, I am getting new ones from crower. though, I'll just add 3 angle valve job to my list of things to get done. I hope to get it all done by july 1. I just hope I screw nothing up when I put it all back together.

[SOHC_STUDENT]

I am not going to use the stock valves, I am getting new ones from crower.

why?

what are the aftermarket valves going to do for your build?

[shifty35]

I am not going to use the stock valves, I am getting new ones from crower. though, I'll just add 3 angle valve job to my list of things to get done. I hope to get it all done by july 1. I just hope I screw nothing up when I put it all back together.

A 3 angle "valve job" is done on the valve seat, which is in the head... the valves just have a single cut on them.

[shifty35]

why?

what are the aftermarket valves going to do for your build?

Generally people get aftermarket valves for a couple reasons -

1. Lighter than stock
2. Cut back stem, better flow
3. Potentially for flat face for smaller CC
4. If stainless valves are used, they will bend upon piston-valve contact instead of breaking and destroying everything.
5. If they want to oversize the valves.

But I agree, they probably aren't necessary for his build.