Iraq? Why?

[areskzc]

I was reading today about a scandal in some veterean hospital in Washington area, about poor conditions and burocratic delays injured soldiers had to suffer after coming from Iraq and surrounding areas...

My question is Why the hell are still troops over there... I mean what's the point now?

Saddam is dead, the remaining militia is spread, they cannot counterfight if not with car bombs and arabs kamikazee.
So why?

I feel proud for our soldiers... but man they should be back already.

[SOHC_STUDENT]

it's been said a thousand times before, so many times that most people don't even hear it anymore

research "peak oil"

The USA is there to secure the largest deposits of sweet crude oil in the world. There are now 4, multi-billion dollar permanent military bases securing the major north south oil pipelines.

[areskzc]

who killed the electric car?

[ryan89crx]

the US is not there to secure oil...conspiracy theories do not help anything.

i find it funny how up in arms everyone is about this war, when in comparison to previous conflicts this one is miniscule...

sure you can say that Im not there, but if i could, i would

[93reddelsol]

the US is not there to secure oil...conspiracy theories do not help anything.

i find it funny how up in arms everyone is about this war, when in comparison to previous conflicts this one is miniscule...

sure you can say that Im not there, but if i could, i would
Very true.

But its time for our soldiers to get out of there, its been to long, and now taking to much money. They need to all come back.

[ryan89crx]

Very true.

But its time for our soldiers to get out of there, its been to long, and now taking to much money. They need to all come back.thats just it, the US cant just "up and leave"

we get out of there and what happens? there is no governing and regulating force to keep "insurgants" under control. the country would then be overrun and in worse shape than when we got there. you think that there wouldnt be retaliation from them when there is no army or police to keep them under control?

shit would hit the fan

[OniFactor]

what about the locals there saying they wished the US had never gone in, that they felt safer about the possible civil war under saddam's regime?

we're blowing billions of dollars trying to get their society that has been in conflict since it's inception, to be peaceful, when we still haven't recovered totally from katrina?

[ryan89crx]

what about the locals there saying they wished the US had never gone in, that they felt safer about the possible civil war under saddam's regime?thats because they actually had an army then

know what one of the first things the US did when we got there? we disbanded the army :hammer:

imagine, thousands of men now cant support their family because they have no job anymore when the army was disbanded. now imagine the "insurgants" offering them pay, allowing them to support their families, to fight with them. if you were in that situation with no money, no job opprotunities, what would you do? now there are thousands ot TRAINED SOLDIERS that WE disbanded, fighting against us.

of course they dont feel safe. the men that used to protect them are now helping the people that terrorize the world because they have no choice.

[SOHC_STUDENT]

it's way too complicated to discuss online, especially when people aren't informed.

The US is never leaving Iraq
http://www.fcnl.org/iraq/bases.htm

[areskzc]

IMO they wasted too much money in something the US was not concerned into.

[BigTuna]

wow we need to get out of there already?
IRAQ 5 years 3100 deaths
WW2 8 years 300,000 deaths

or how about little baby battles like
Iwa Jima 7000 Us deaths 5 weeks
D-Day 6600 Us deaths 3 days
Battle of the bulge 19,000 US dead in under 2 months

God forbid we every have to fight a real global war again...

More kids have died in US colleges from binge drinking than have died in IRAQ, Whats a bigger waste of human life? Liberating a oppressed people from a sick fuck dictator or dying from a Alky OD in frat house?

[Orion]

Oh come on, I can't believe some people are actually so naieve as to believe that the US Government gives a shit about the people of Iraq. :roll: It couldn't have been for safety, because Sadam meant nothing on a world scale... he couldn't have launched even one LDM if his life depended on it. Oh wait... yup, in retrospect he really couldn't. :)

The reasons they invaded were
A) prestige - daddy Bush' nemesis was a thorn in the eye
B) economics - they are, after all, still neo-cons
C) personal gain - noticed how the shares in the Carlyle Group holdings went up like Scuds when the war was official ? Guess in what firm almost every damn politician of some level has invested or has even worked for in the past ? ;)

A/B/C in no particular order.

Money makes the world go 'round...

[Davy Jones]

Yup, it had nothing to do with Iraq giving the finger to the UN for about ten years prior. It's all old white dudes out to take your cookies.

[MiloReaper87]

One thing i can stand is the MEDIA and Military build up at once it took em a long time for that hospital to get caught and this was aimed at the U.S. Army at the moment!!!

[Haysoos]

We are not leaving Iraq. Putting aside the ramifications of a pull-out, america now has a foothold in middle eat, a place to call our own without it being ours? In the words of tyler durden, fuckers setting up franchises. Now we have our own soil to lauch "wars on terror".

This war was about making money for bushes friends through government contracts for the war, and real estate.

Oh, and if we were to pull out without them being setup and ready to defend themselves from insurgents, it would simply breed another dictator that would be bent on destroying the US, and the people might just be pissed enough that Iraq would be more of a threat then before we ever went in there.

[Haysoos]

thats just it, the US cant just "up and leave"

we get out of there and what happens? there is no governing and regulating force to keep "insurgants" under control. the country would then be overrun and in worse shape than when we got there. you think that there wouldnt be retaliation from them when there is no army or police to keep them under control?

shit would hit the fan

So many dumbass americans don't realize that simple fact. If I could, I would rep you for that, but apparently I need to spread some around...

[SOHC_STUDENT]

To talk about this subject first we need to define the term "insurgent".

Are insurgents Iraqi? Are they Sunni are they Shi'a ? Do you even know what a Sunni or Shi'a is?

An insurgent is basically anyone in Iraq who hates America and picks up a gun to do something about it.

Imagine this scenario. China invades mainland USA to overthrow the evil Bush empire. Would you pick up a gun and defend your town against Chinese military? Would you be angry if they came to your house, kicked in your front door and told your parents and little sister to subjugate themselves? If you resisted you would be arrested and put into torture prison for life.

I would be an insurgent.

[88cr-rex]

Imagine this scenario. China invades mainland USA

Impossible. Thats why we have a military.

The USA is there to secure the largest deposits of sweet crude oil in the world.

If we didn't care in the late 50's/early 60's when those ragheads nationalized OUR drills and OUR factories and claimed it as their own, we sure don't care now. We wouldn't even have had this problem now if the liberals in this country didn't LET them take it.

But of course, when liberals have no argument they have to appeal to emotions . . . Those poor arabs need economic support. They need a way to make a profit. Might as well institute communism if you want to talk about "need".

If it wasn't for us they would still be running around blowing each other up never knowing what was under them.

In the end, we are there because they want us dead.
They want your entire way of life eradicated. They want to rape your mother and daughter and cut off your head and drag your body through the streets with an angry mob. Islam has never EVER been a religion of peace. It started with a fight and is still one today.

[ryan89crx]

Things that make you think a little:

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January.
In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the
month of January. That's just one American city,
about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq

When some claim that President Bush shouldn't
have started this war, state the following:

a. FDR led us into World War II.

B. Germany never attacked us; Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost ..
an average of 112,500 per year.

c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea
North Korea never attacked us..
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ...
an average of 18,334 per year.

d John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.

e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost .
an average of 5,800 per year.

f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.
Bosnia never attacked us.
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three
times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on
multiple occasions.

G. In the years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush
has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled
al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran, and North
Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who
slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining
about how long the war is taking.
But
It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno
to take the Branch Davidian compound.
That was a 51-day operation..

We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons
in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find
the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the
Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard
than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his
Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took
to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB!
The Military morale is high!

The biased media hopes we are too ignorant
to realize the facts

[areskzc]

[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/CENTER][/LEFT]

Morale... we better stick the nose in our matters.

[areskzc]

To talk about this subject first we need to define the term "insurgent".

Are insurgents Iraqi? Are they Sunni are they Shi'a ? Do you even know what a Sunni or Shi'a is?

An insurgent is basically anyone in Iraq who hates America and picks up a gun to do something about it.

Imagine this scenario. China invades mainland USA to overthrow the evil Bush empire. Would you pick up a gun and defend your town against Chinese military? Would you be angry if they came to your house, kicked in your front door and told your parents and little sister to subjugate themselves? If you resisted you would be arrested and put into torture prison for life.

I would be an insurgent.

I would too, so it would be dilligent to take the army corp back... And let the people pver there live as they freaking want. Hell or not is not our problem.

[BigTuna]

Imagine this scenario. China invades mainland USA to overthrow the evil Bush empire. Would you pick up a gun and defend your town against Chinese military?

This is the shit pisses me off, how people can compare GW to Sadam in the same sentence, are you saying GW is as evil as Sadams evil empire? Liberals have no ability to recognize evil, and the kind of evil that needs to be removed from the face of the earth. People cry that prisoners at gitmo don’t get their perfect religious meals or prayer time when our soldiers are taken prisoner they have their throats sliced open on video so It can be displayed around the world. Liberals have no basis for war because they can’t support it no matter what the cause. They believe that peace is byproduct of talk, when history has proven time and time again peace is the end result of war is removing evil. How can you bargain or make treaties with people who bring nothing to the table? They only bring hatred, and the want to kill you and kill your civilization. They only way to stop someone who wants to kill you is to kill him first. These people don’t want anything more than pure inhalation of Israel/USA/West civilization. How can you talk to people like that and expect them to hold their word.

I am a proud American and proud of what America is doing to help the world. With out America the world would be one fucked up place, the blood of generations of US soldiers and marines have rid the world of the most powerful forms of evil that threatened the world: Nazism, Socialism, Communism, Imperialism. Yet we are suppose to live in fear of bunch of radical Muslims who spout off how they want to kill is? Libs believe that a group of rag tag soldiers can defeat us; I have more faith in our troops than that.

Plain in simple Radical Islam is pure evil, its not "just a different religion" I have no problem with the religion of Islam, but the radical portion of the religion is an evil that needs to stopped. Now the Libs will yap that I’m racist ect all because I call a sect of religion that promotes beheading, killing, and tormenting of innocents EVIL. Throughout history different good religions have had wacko's lead groups people to do evil things in the names of "god". Many religions have been hijacked throughout history; right now Islam has been hijacked.

Coming down off of my soap box

I am proud to be a American, I am proud to have voted for GW twice, I am proud to have a president who makes decisions not based on public polls, I am proud to be apart of the greatest nation on this planet.

God Bless America

[ryan89crx]

This is the shit pisses me off, how people can compare GW to Sadam in the same sentence. Liberals have no ability to recognize evil, and the kind of evil that needs to be removed from the face of the earth. People cry that prisoners at gitmo dont get their perfect religious meals or prayer time when our soldiers are takem prisoner they have their throats sliced open on video so It can be displayed around the word. Liberals have no basis for war becuase they cant support it no matter what the cause. They believe that peace is byproduct of talk, when history has proven time and time again peace is the end result of war removing evil. How can bargain or make treaties with people who bring nothing to the table? They only bring hatred, and the want to to kill you and kill your cilization. The only to to stop someone who wants to kill you is to kill him first. These people dont want anything more than pure inihalation of Isreal/USA/West civilization. How can you talk to people like that and expect them to hold there word.

I am a proud American and proud of what America is doing to help the word. With out America the world would be one fucked up place, the blood of generations of US soldiers and marines have rid the world of the most powerful forms of evil that threatened the world: Nazism, Socialism, Communism, Imperialism. Yet we are suppose to live in fear of bunch of radical muslims who spout off how they want to kill is? Libs believe that a group of rag tag soldiers can defeat us, I have more faith in our troops than that.

Plain in simple Radical Islam is pure evil, ist not "justa different religion" I have no problem with the religion of Islam, but the radical portion of the religion is a evil that needs to stopped. Now the Libs will yap that Im racist ect all becuase I call a sect of religion that promotes beheading, killing, and tormenting of innocents EVIL. Throughout history different good religions have had wacko's lead groups people to do evil things in the names of "god". Many religions have been hijacked throughout history, right now Islam has been hijacked.

Coming down off of my soap box

I am proud to be a American, I am proud to have voted for GW twice, I am proud to have a president who makes desicions not based on public polls, I am proud to be apart of the greatest nation on this planet.

God Bless Americafucking AMEN!!

[black94sol]

i guess this is where i come in. personally i could care less why i'm over here.

all i know is the president ordered me to come to iraq. i'll be heading home soon, get a little break. then be right back here in 08. am i worried yes/no.

yes: insurgents are getting smarter. that's a fact. their snipers more accurate.

no: because i LOVE MY FUCKING COUNTRY!!! i joined the army to fight wars, not sit on my ass and collect a check.

[BigTuna]

i guess this is where i come in. personally i could care less why i'm over here.

all i know is the president ordered me to come to iraq. i'll be heading home soon, get a little break. then be right back here in 08. am i worried yes/no.

yes: insurgents are getting smarter. that's a fact. their snipers more accurate.

no: because i LOVE MY FUCKING COUNTRY!!! i joined the army to fight wars, not sit on my ass and collect a check.

True spoken words that I have heard from countless soldiers and marines who have served over there. That is the spirit that embodies our military.

Thank you for your service.

[black94sol]

True spoken words that I have heard from countless soldiers and marines who have served over there. That is the spirit that embodies our military.

Thank you for your service.

you are very welcome sir!! :america: :TU:

EDIT: on another note, i hate this place just as much as every other soldier, marine, airman, sailors, and anyone else who is here(blackwater)

i hate being away from my family
i hate the sand
i hate 140+ degree weather
i hate this country w/ a passion

but, if the president wants me here...then here is where i'll be, now, later, whenever he calls

[ryan89crx]

because i LOVE MY FUCKING COUNTRY!!! i joined the army to fight wars, not sit on my ass and collect a check.thank you! the majority of Americans actually do appreciate what you do for our country. :TU:

[black94sol]

THANKS RYAN!!!

i know man, it just sucks listening to these people bitching about it, which is the main reason i don't watch the news

[ryan89crx]

the News is so biased it isnt even funny...

show the positive side of things? no, they couldnt possible consider that :roll:

[black94sol]

yeah i hate watching the news, EVERYTHING is negative.

WHO THE FUCK?? wants to watch that, well apparently alot of people, me = BIG NO

i'll stick to facts

[SOHC_STUDENT]

Hey, sorry guys didn't mean to piss anyone off especially soldiers... I have a friend over there and it he's all gung-ho about the war, thinks he's fucking Rambo manning a turret gun on a Humvee. He's gonna get his head blown off...


I listen to a lot of NPR and yeah the negative news is getting really old. All they're covering ATM is the Walter Reed hospital "scandal".

[black94sol]

well to be honest, it's about time the army started listening to the lower enlisted like myself and inh. he is in the baghdad area, doing patrols i think. i have the upmost respect for chris :TU: to you if you read this chris.

honestly, the army never listens to the lower enlisted, they just ask the officers, which (not to piss any officers off) officers could give a shit less how the lower enlisted live. it's true OMG...yes it's true. while they are snuggled up in their 1 man rooms, I myself right now, am crammed in a room w/ 3 other guys. granted my living conditions aren't that bad. but i have about 1 foot of personal space between my bed and my locker. that's it. welcome to my world. if you want i'll post up pics of my "AREA" i like to call it

[black94sol]

bump for this topic, its an issue

[achilles1981]

Impossible. Thats why we have a military.



If we didn't care in the late 50's/early 60's when those ragheads nationalized OUR drills and OUR factories and claimed it as their own, we sure don't care now. We wouldn't even have had this problem now if the liberals in this country didn't LET them take it.

But of course, when liberals have no argument they have to appeal to emotions . . . Those poor arabs need economic support. They need a way to make a profit. Might as well institute communism if you want to talk about "need".

If it wasn't for us they would still be running around blowing each other up never knowing what was under them.

In the end, we are there because they want us dead.
They want your entire way of life eradicated. They want to rape your mother and daughter and cut off your head and drag your body through the streets with an angry mob. Islam has never EVER been a religion of peace. It started with a fight and is still one today.

You're generalizing. There have always been and will always be extremists on both ends. Crusades ring a bell? It has less to do with Islam itself (which when you really look at it, isn't all that fundamentally different from Christianity or any other religion), and more to do with the the fact that the Arabs have always been a nomadic culture, and nomads don't play well with others.

On another note, I agree with black94sol, the officer ranks not listening to the enlisted point of view is an issue, but little known is that the issue stems from the left-over mentality put into our officers from the Army/Navy of the 1700s. Then all officers were from the upper classes (nobility/gentry) and the lower classes were enlisted. By no means does mommy and daddy having money and power make you a better leader any more than the requisite college degree does today. Actually some of our finest leaders are enlisted men/women. There is also a lot of the "do as I say, not as I do" attitude creating problems as well. Sadly, the only thing we can do about it is try to become an officer to put ourselves in the position to fix the problem, and until then say "yes, sir" and keep on going.

[Beeza]

1st Watch this 1 minute video,then get on the second link and search and read.These guys certainly know their stuff.Soldiers.I've go so much respect for those who stand up and fight for the rest of us Cowards.
1 Minute Video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8412765781659030603)
Search and Read People (http://conspiracycentral.net:6969/)

[Beeza]

There is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much info on here,here the INTERNET that's why the American Government will soon bring in yet another new law which says any website that gets 300 hits per quarter year they have to declare exactly what it is that you are reading.This COMPLETELY goes against the 1st Ammendment-Freedom of Information.What can we do...Well without a Revolution this world is Fucked! All revolutionary's who cared about you are dead.Am I being negative.No just Honest.This should shock you,at least then you will be feeling something.I cannot watch Bush on TV anymore,I wanted to smash my TV just 2 nights ago.The Truth about this World is not for everyone (some people just can't handle the truth,they want to live their sheltered lives and wither away just not knowing,whateva)but it should be.I'm going crazy in this Mutha Fucka! and all I/we can do is watch EVIL Bush unleash his plans on the world.How many Innocents killed in Iraq....look it up.How would you feel if their soldiers came here and killed your family and friends and all of the people you care about-INNOCENTS!? How can he get away with this? Well you have to ask dont you or at least I hope so.ILLUMINATI.Refer to second link^^^^.

[4Door Life]

on word...

WOLVERINES!!!

sorry, i had a red dawn flash back...:)

ya, i would definatly pick up my gun and try to defend my home and family, i cant see myself saying, oh, would you look at that, we have a new government... the chinse government... aw well, were do i need to go to show my support...

i say fuck that, pick up a gun, rock a fuckin frisby... defend yourself and country, this is the greatest country on earth and other countrys know it...

[flatfourfan]

You guys are in this for the long haul it seems to me, I see the money spent as an investment that bush and his buddies will expect returns on. Setting up shop in another country under the cover of the whole *war on terror*deal is what they want.

Personally I don't give a shit.......but the more attention that the Middel East gets, the less people will be looking at Asia and their nuclear programme.

[BigTuna]

The Truth about this World is not for everyone (some people just can't handle the truth, they want to live their sheltered lives and wither away just not knowing,whateva)but it should be.

1 Rule of Liberalism. All those who disagree with my opinion are some how less intelligent, narrow minded, sheltered, ect. My opinion is truth therefore all those who disagree must be lacking something, or are guilty of something.




I'm going crazy in this Mutha Fucka! and all I/we can do is watch EVIL Bush unleash his plans on the world.
Back to my original post, Liberals have no grasp of what evil is. Evil is nothing more than a word to label people within their vocabulary. To them Bush can be, if not is more evil than dictators who murdered millions. In their eyes Bush ranks with Hitler, Stalin, Saddam ect. It is a fundamental mental flaw Liberals have, they cannot differentiate between good and evil, everything changes on the situation. What is evil today can be acceptable down the road, zero moral compass beside the "with me or against me" mindset. If your a liberal you good, if you disagree than you are evil.

How many Innocents killed in Iraq....look it up. How would you feel if their soldiers came here and killed your family and friends and all of the people you care about-INNOCENTS!? How can he get away with this? Well you have to ask dont you or at least I hope so.ILLUMINATI.Refer to second link^^^^.

Innocents? Liberals did nothing for nearly 30 years while people where murdered by the hundreds of thousands. No liberals screamed for justice for the innocents when Saddam poisoned the Kurds, No liberals women’s rights groups were banging on the IRAQI embassy demanding women have equal rights in IRAQ and should be allowed to get a education. The same liberals who scream that US prisons are unfair or cruel and unusual punishment did nothing for 30 years while Saddam rape/ torture rooms were taking fresh souls daily. Saddam fed people in tree shedders while their family watched just for disagreeing with his policy. Liberals are supposed to be the "Great Progressive Liberators of People Freedoms" and yet they did nothing. Yet now they scream about innocents, it is truly mind-boggling.

[slowex98]

the US is not there to secure oil...conspiracy theories do not help anything.

i find it funny how up in arms everyone is about this war, when in comparison to previous conflicts this one is miniscule...

sure you can say that Im not there, but if i could, i would

me too I went sighn up after high school and they told me I was too fat and something else so Iwent to college

[OniFactor]

to them Bush can be, if not is more evil than dictators who murdered millions. In their eyes Bush ranks with Hitler, Stalin, Saddam ect. It is a fundamental mental flaw Liberals have, they cannot differentiate between good and evil, everything changes on the situation. What is evil today can be acceptable down the road, zero moral compass beside the "with me or against me" mindset. If your a liberal you good, if you disagree than you are evil.

so.. you're saying 'liberals' are sociopathic?

[black94sol]

well to be honest, it's about time the army started listening to the lower enlisted like myself and inh. he is in the baghdad area, doing patrols i think. i have the upmost respect for chris :TU: to you if you read this chris.

honestly, the army never listens to the lower enlisted, they just ask the officers, which (not to piss any officers off) officers could give a shit less how the lower enlisted live. it's true OMG...yes it's true. while they are snuggled up in their 1 man rooms, I myself right now, am crammed in a room w/ 3 other guys. granted my living conditions aren't that bad. but i have about 1 foot of personal space between my bed and my locker. that's it. welcome to my world. if you want i'll post up pics of my "AREA" i like to call it

this needs quoted even if i wrote it

[OniFactor]

i totally hear you, man.. gotta remember my dad was in the airforce for a good long time..

[black94sol]

yeah my dad just retired after 26 years so....but still man.

lower enlisted are the bastard children of the ranks
just like
national guard are the bastard children of the active army

[OniFactor]

oh man... don't get me started on how the guard is getting assfucked by everyone..

i really think the government needs to remodel the military.. i really like the Heinlein styling, from Starship Troopers.. it would def help our situation, i think.

[bpotts900]

the US is not there to secure oil...conspiracy theories do not help anything.

i find it funny how up in arms everyone is about this war, when in comparison to previous conflicts this one is miniscule...

sure you can say that Im not there, but if i could, i would

this not miniscule by a long shot, if it were miniscule then it would have been over and done with a while back, This war is a cancer that is slowly spreading.

[88cr-rex]

Crusades ring a bell?

If there was one single event in history that people get caught up on its the Crusades.

Without going into a long paragraph, it can be ended like this:

Christianity is NOT a religion. Christianity IS a relationship.
Christiantiy is NOT about some intermediary or other people acting on your behalf. It is NOT about what the "church" does or what other people say. It is up for you to decide that following what Jesus said and what the bible states is the best possible way to live.

That is not a for or against (to fit in the religion part of this section). It is to clear up why the crusades are behind us and why it was people acting on their own messed up decisions. It is also to explain what christianity is to those hung up on the idea that other people "are" what christianity is.

which when you really look at it, isn't all that fundamentally different from Christianity or any other religion

Like how Jesus is the point of Christianity and to Islam he is just a prophet?
Where do you think the word "Christianity" came from?
This could easily get very long . . .

[OniFactor]

If there was one single event in history that people get caught up on its the Crusades.

Without going into a long paragraph, it can be ended like this:

Christianity is NOT a religion. Christianity IS a relationship.
Christiantiy is NOT about some intermediary or other people acting on your behalf. It is NOT about what the "church" does or what other people say. It is up for you to decide that following what Jesus said and what the bible states is the best possible way to live.

That is not a for or against (to fit in the religion part of this section). It is to clear up why the crusades are behind us and why it was people acting on their own messed up decisions. It is also to explain what christianity is to those hung up on the idea that other people "are" what christianity is.



Like how Jesus is the point of Christianity and to Islam he is just a prophet?
Where do you think the word "Christianity" came from?
This could easily get very long . . .

i refer you to this post.. http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52590

[black94sol]

oh man... don't get me started on how the guard is getting assfucked by everyone..

i really think the government needs to remodel the military.. i really like the Heinlein styling, from Starship Troopers.. it would def help our situation, i think.



i'll second that.

dude i'm in the guard and i'm here w/ all these active guys. man they still treat us like shit. fuck those guys, i've already been deployed for 14 months, that's ALOT longer than they will. plus my unit is already scheduled to come back in 08

:noway:

[Sonny7730]

dude, i have even more respect for you than before. my roommate is in the guard, and man i support the guard 100%. you guys are almost always on longer duty aren't you?

[black94sol]

dude, i have even more respect for you than before. my roommate is in the guard, and man i support the guard 100%. you guys are almost always on longer duty aren't you?

yeah i'm at 14 months right now, only 4 more to go, unless they extend us :hammer:

are deployments are 18 months, active: 11 months :noway:

[88cr-rex]

i refer you to this post.. http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52590

how was any of that "for or against" ?

It was to clear up why bringing up the crusades is a moot point.

[OniFactor]

you brought up religion, which the crusades are only loosely affiliated with, if you really look at it.

Religion is a banned topic in this forum, because it gets ugly, quickly. so there's supposed to be NO talk of religion. that's why.

[BigTuna]

so.. you're saying 'liberals' are sociopathic?

Im not calling them anything, I am just pointing out what they do.
Their track record is full of flip flops and changes in policy that are brought about by the ever changing winds of public opinion. There is no due north on the moral or political compass of a liberal, what is right and wrong is merely the by product of careful calculation on public opinion polls and what will gain them power. They vote for things, then vote against them and constantly change policy on what "feals" good rather than what is the right thing to do.

At least Bush has pair and does take shit from all the Libs/UN/Europeans who truely collected havent accomplished jask shit in the 21st century. Talk, talk,treaty, talk, negotiations,talk, meatings, talk somemore meanwhile Saddam was flipping the whole world off and NO one was gonna do anything. I could care aless if 9/11 isnt linked to IRAQ and I am truely happy that nut job Saddam didnt havent any WOMD's. He was cruel dictator who thought he could threaten and bully everyone, and he did for many years. Until GW said enough is enough and delt with him. If it wasnt for USA what would the world do? Honestly the UN cant handle primative tribal wars in Africa let alone disarm and remove dictators with huge armies and advance weapons. The UN is building full talkers. The USA is the only coutry who has fought for other peoples freedom. We as a nation have donated 100's of thousand of lifes for the liberty and the freedom of other people.

Im just sick and tired of people not having faith in the USA and its military, the media portrays the insugents as a unbeatable force and we should just come home now. Like a bunch of rag tag cowards who blow up police stations, school, hospitals ect and kill more of their own than they kill US soldiers can beat us. Its the defeatist mentality of the left that annoys me, yes war is hell and people die, but freeing a nation of people is a noble cause.

Sorry about the long winded posts, I am just fed up with all the negativity ect People need to start being proud of our nation and what we do to help the world.

[OniFactor]

you know that the entire reason Saddam felt he could act like that, was because... we were his friend, way back when Daddy was in power, right? we kind of had a hand in creating the monster.

while i am glad that he's done and gone, i think we work towards pulling out, instead of sending more troops, as bush decided to do, against the study group's findings. i don't think that it's because they're unbeatable foes, but rather that we're trying to save a situation that has been going on for thousands of years, the shi'ite/suni conflict. until these two groups can figure out what the fuck they need to do with themselves, we cannot help them create a peaceful country, and we shouldn't try to be a police force for them.

once again, we're estimating spending $161billion dollars in Iraq, for 2008. that's 7% of the fiscal budget. why can't we spend some of that on, oh, you know, REBUILDING OUR OWN DISASTER AREAS! i don't care if we maintain a presence in the middle east, but that tax money is better spent here in the US.

[Rexinre]

REBUILDING OUR OWN DISASTER AREAS! i don't care if we maintain a presence in the middle east, but that tax money is better spent here in the US.
Its funny that you mention that... Bush said last week that only 85million was used for rebuilding "our disaster area" out of 125 million. He encouraged people to keep using the money.

Case in point, you can put 3 billion there, but if people aren't rebuilding or taking advantage of it then what’s the point? Money is available, and people should use it.


EDIT: Are you saying there should be a cap on what they spend in Iraq? That sounds like something that the Russians would have done to their soldiers. How are you going to send soldiers over seas to fight and not give them the proper funding to accomplish the mission? Sounds like a risky business you would be running there.

[areskzc]

you know that the entire reason Saddam felt he could act like that, was because... we were his friend, way back when Daddy was in power, right? we kind of had a hand in creating the monster.

while i am glad that he's done and gone, i think we work towards pulling out, instead of sending more troops, as bush decided to do, against the study group's findings. i don't think that it's because they're unbeatable foes, but rather that we're trying to save a situation that has been going on for thousands of years, the shi'ite/suni conflict. until these two groups can figure out what the fuck they need to do with themselves, we cannot help them create a peaceful country, and we shouldn't try to be a police force for them.

once again, we're estimating spending $161billion dollars in Iraq, for 2008. that's 7% of the fiscal budget. why can't we spend some of that on, oh, you know, REBUILDING OUR OWN DISASTER AREAS! i don't care if we maintain a presence in the middle east, but that tax money is better spent here in the US.

That's was my point... 161 billions, somewhere else when we can better things here, to rebuild cities, attend medical and social programs, increment economy.

I wish the army could do some patrol in US hot cities... and not in IRAQ.

[Orion]

I am a proud American and proud of what America is doing to help the world. With out America the world would be one fucked up place


Excuse me ??? All America (as a nation, not as individuals) does is fuck things up all over the world ! Take it from an ally like me, America does NOT help the world at all. You know what ALWAYS happens ? Someone, somewhere makes something good. American companies pick this up, barge in with full financial support from the US government (and the CIA thrown in for good measure if necessary... ever read the official functional description of the CIA ? Helping American businesses proliferate over foreign ones in foreign markets is one of them...), take over, suck it all dry and destroy everything that was good about it in the first place. Then they leave it all as a wreck and move on to the next new thing.

Lernout & Hauspie speech recognition technology is one of the examples I can give you. This was a small company, started by 2 entrepreneurs over here in Flanders. They made commercial IT speech technology that actually worked well back in the '90s, and the company started growing quite rapidly. Then, the next thing you know, they're being summoned by the US government (!! what were they nosing over here anyway ?) for fraud. Of course, after 2 years of fighting barehand against a veritable fortress of judicial power, they lose the case and L&H was declared bankrupt. Thousands of citizens over here had invested shitloads during the hype, and were now fucked as the frozen stocks tumbled in value like poisoned doves. I personally know somebody who lost $75,000 in this debacle.
So ok, maybe they were rightfully accused and sentenced for fraud I here you think... But wait, you know what happened suddenly, not even a week after the case was closed and everything in the company was impounded... as if it were a magical mushroom, the US Army presented its brand spanking new highly advanced speech recognition software program, not to be released to the public in years to come. :o Do I need to draw you a picture of what happened ???

And this kinda shit is only one small, (to me) local example of what happens over, and over, and over, and over again. All over the world. And THAT is why nobody likes you. It's not because people are envious.. hell, more than 2 out of 3 Americans live below what is considered to be the poverty threshold in Europe... no, it's because the economic apparatus of your country fucks things up for everybody else just to make profit for the 0,5% top layer of your society. And the other 99,5% seem to applaud this, and stand by the system like lobotomised lemmings. At least, this is the impression that is sometimes generated. Of course I know that there are a fair deal of exceptions to the rule, and I'm not as outright dumb as to generalise the entire American people over one image (like some do with those "ragheads" and "camelfuckers").

It's this and the small things like the whole "nation under god" thing (how pretentious is that ? Not even counting the fact that having a society regulated by blind religious fanaticism is downright dangerous, and so 16th century...) and the generally condescending attitude towards anything that's not American that really annoys the hell out of everyone. Not to mention the fact that a lot of Americans seem comfortably numb in their shelled off society. Ever considered learning another language ? Hell no, speak English or die ! :roll: Way to go ! That attitude shows you really have wits. ;)


/rant before I start about other nations that have an edge off like China, Israel, Afghanistan, Palestina, North Korea... I think I can piss off the entire globe with my opinions on everything. Hell, I even piss off compatriots when I vent off my frustrations with my very own country. :)


And yeah, about the world being fucked up with people like Sadam in there... frankly I don't care if it's 10,000 miles away from my bed. And neither would you if your goverment didn't decide to stick its nose in.

[Haysoos]

100% support for the troops, my dad was over there in the beginning, but also I think we should all support the troops regardless of how we feel about the war, with the exception of those fucktards that abused prisoners. Fuck them. I'm sure every soldier on this site is able to carry him/herself with dignity and not sink down to the level those "soldiers" sunk to. Much respect from me fellas.

That said, I have to comment on the whole "fighting evil". Fact is, we are a spartan state if you think about it. Rather than taking places over, we "adjust" the world and it's leaders to our benefit. Also, Bush is in this war and his presidency for personal gain ONLY. Thats it, he DOES NOT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT CITIZENS, SOLDIERS, OR IRAQIES. (spelling?) If you think otherwise, you are a sheep who has bought into bullshit. Bush tries to placate the american people as much as possible. He doesn't care if he's approved as long as he isn't hindered.

Given that, I would say that Bush isn't good vs. evil (terror, saddam), it's the lesser of two evils. To be honest with you, if it wasn't for congress and checks 'n' balances in general, Bush would be a Stalin or Hitler. Might not do the same atrocities, but thats what a man DOES, not who he IS. Bush is about POWER and GAIN. The methods for getting it and what he doesn't change who he is.

Also, take a look at the previous conflicts we've been involved in. Very rarely are we the "good guy", mostly we're just the "better guy". WW2 was a looong time ago fellas and america has changed. For fucks sake, america wasn't even the shining example of good and righteousness back then that people try to make it seem, and we're 10x further away now, and yet people still try to act like we're the "good" guys. The only thing keeping america from being bad guys is our need to appear like the good guys.

Not saying the good guys don't exist, but if 60 apples in 100 are bad, would you say all 100 are good?

[OniFactor]

Its funny that you mention that... Bush said last week that only 85million was used for rebuilding "our disaster area" out of 125 million. He encouraged people to keep using the money.

Case in point, you can put 3 billion there, but if people aren't rebuilding or taking advantage of it then what’s the point? Money is available, and people should use it.


EDIT: Are you saying there should be a cap on what they spend in Iraq? That sounds like something that the Russians would have done to their soldiers. How are you going to send soldiers over seas to fight and not give them the proper funding to accomplish the mission? Sounds like a risky business you would be running there.

not saying cap spending.. but, if we only have a basic presence in iraq, say, a total of 1/4 to 1/3 of what we have deployed there, now, cut the budget in half, 80.5 billion, then the troops would actually be better off outfitted.. no more half-assed armored vehicles in the field, etc.. then that 80.5 billion that's left over could be spent on other things. even if it's not on disaster rebuilding

[Haysoos]

Excuse me ???

...(yada yada, don't need the full quote)...

And yeah, about the world being fucked up with people like Sadam in there... frankly I don't care if it's 10,000 miles away from my bed. And neither would you if your goverment didn't decide to stick its nose in.

THIS is truth that few americans (like me) want to realize. Instead the average american lets the television mold their world about how great america is. That is why I HATE america, a nation of mostly sheep like zombies that choose to not think for themselves or question the media or government.

Of course, on the other side of the fence, you have the conspiracy theorists and the people who bash without logical reasoning. There is good and bad to this country and there is good and bad to every country. I just don't think other countries people are as self deluded as us except maybe the iran people who don't get to see the whole picture ever.

[Rexinre]

not saying cap spending.. but, if we only have a basic presence in iraq, say, a total of 1/4 to 1/3 of what we have deployed there, now, cut the budget in half, 80.5 billion, then the troops would actually be better off outfitted.. no more half-assed armored vehicles in the field, etc.. then that 80.5 billion that's left over could be spent on other things. even if it's not on disaster rebuilding

This isn't a basic presence war. No offence, but I am glad you aren't the president.

[Haysoos]

This isn't a basic presence war. No offence, but I am glad you aren't the president.

THIS ISN"T A WAR AT ALL, it's an occupation to setup a government that will allow the US to station military there so we have faster response and deployment for "policing" that part of the world, meaning the war on terror.

It's about real estate people, so there isn't a "basic presence", that is now a regular presence area. It's going to be permanent, not for iraq, but for Bush's / america's own purposes which honestly I haven't thought enough about to guess at, but that doesn't mean I'm not right.

[OniFactor]

This isn't a basic presence war. No offence, but I am glad you aren't the president.

i think you missed the part where i said drop the war.. we're never going to stop the civil conflict there, and i honestly don't see the point in trying

[BigTuna]

Ur right capitalism doesnt work, America is evil and fucks up everything. We are just a bunch of money grubbing, oil wanting, imperialist rednecks whos sole purpose it fuck the world up.

If it wasnt for the blood of the US's soldiers and marines you my friend would be speaking german as would the rest of Europe. Every think about the houndreds of thousands of US soldiers and marines who died for the freedom of YOUR country. What did the US gain out of saving Europes butt? We were so imperialistic that we didnt give any you back european countries? Before you bad mouth my great county you had better give thanks for all of our innocent boys that died just to give you peace and freedom. It cracks me how Europeans sit on this high horse and bash the USA when they could not even defend themselves just a few generations ago.

America is not perfect, no country is. But we have the highest immigration for reason, if we were such a crappy country why do people flock here? The US donates 4x as much money to Africa as all of Europe combined, when the tsunami hit is was US military ships their asap for aid while the UN was still figuring out stuff, Christ Europe could not even deal with the waring factions with in Yugoslavia (spl?) and relied on US troops to deal with it.

Like I said I am proud to be a American, I am proud of what America does in the world.

[Rexinre]

THIS ISN"T A WAR AT ALL, it's an occupation to setup a government that will allow the US to station military there so we have faster response and deployment for "policing" that part of the world, meaning the war on terror.

It's about real estate people, so there isn't a "basic presence", that is now a regular presence area. It's going to be permanent, not for iraq, but for Bush's / america's own purposes which honestly I haven't thought enough about to guess at, but that doesn't mean I'm not right.

LOL Are you kidding? Isn't a war... Real estate. If it was a real estate issue we wouldn't be over there diplomaticly... We would be killing everything and anything in site. You guys need to look at what you are saying.

[Rexinre]

Ur right capitalism doesnt work, America is evil and fucks up everything. We are just a bunch of money grubbing, oil wanting, imperialist rednecks whos sole purpose it fuck the world up.

If it wasnt for the blood of the US's soldiers and marines you my friend would be speaking german as would the rest of Europe. Every think about the houndreds of thousands of US soldiers and marines who died for the freedom of YOUR country. What did the US gain out of saving Europes butt? We were so imperialistic that we didnt give any you back european countries? Before you bad mouth my great county you had better give thanks for all of our innocent boys that died just to give you peace and freedom. It cracks me how Europeans sit on this high horse and bash the USA when they could not even defend themselves just a few generations ago.

America is not perfect, no country is. But we have the highest immigration for reason, if we were such a crappy country why do people flock here? The US donates 4x as much money to Africa as all of Europe combined, when the tsunami hit is was US military ships their asap for aid while the UN was still figuring out stuff, Christ Europe could not even deal with the waring factions with in Yugoslavia (spl?) and relied on US troops to deal with it.

Like I said I am proud to be a American, I am proud of what America does in the world.

Well said!! :TU:

I am proud to be an American as well!

[Orion]

Ur right capitalism doesnt work, America is evil and fucks up everything. We are just a bunch of money grubbing, oil wanting, imperialist rednecks whos sole purpose it fuck the world up.

If it wasnt for the blood of the US's soldiers and marines you my friend would be speaking german as would the rest of Europe. Every think about the houndreds of thousands of US soldiers and marines who died for the freedom of YOUR country. What did the US gain out of saving Europes butt? We were so imperialistic that we didnt give any you back european countries? Before you bad mouth my great county you had better give thanks for all of our innocent boys that died just to give you peace and freedom. It cracks me how Europeans sit on this high horse and bash the USA when they could not even defend themselves just a few generations ago.

America is not perfect, no country is. But we have the highest immigration for reason, if we were such a crappy country why do people flock here? The US donates 4x as much money to Africa as all of Europe combined, when the tsunami hit is was US military ships their asap for aid while the UN was still figuring out stuff, Christ Europe could not even deal with the waring factions with in Yugoslavia (spl?) and relied on US troops to deal with it.

Like I said I am proud to be a American, I am proud of what America does in the world.

LOL, seriously ?

- 1 : The US only stepped into the European chapter of WW2 when the scales were already tipped over towards our side. Largely thanks to 6 years of support from Russia, might I add ? And why did you step in ? Only because the war finally reached you via Pearl Harbour... if that never happened, you would've probably just sat back and enjoyed the show. The US winning the war for us ? You watch too many Hollywood movies. Even the British did more... That being said, nothing but respect for the dead and especially those that die fighting for a good cause. I grant you that.
- 2 : Who knows, if Hitler won it might have been the best thing to happen to Europe in centuries. He was a good leader you know... he just had deviant views. And what did the US gain from it ? An economy after the Wall Street crash, absolute military dominance and perks everywhere. If WW2 didn't happen the way it happened, your "great nation" would mean nothing on a world scale right now. Exactly like when it was just "some big country across the big pond" before WW2. America didn't exist on the world-political arena before WW2... So you gained mighty much with it, that's a statement I could give ya on a silver platter !
- 3 : What people flock to the US ? Indians, Mexicans, Pakistanis, Chinese, Sudanese, Tsjetsenians... not exactly the most proliferant countries with well developed information networks, are they ? How many Europeans move to the US out of their own will ? Hardly any, and even then it's mostly just because they have to in order to promote at work.
How many immigrants do we get over here ? Too many. It is THE political issue number one right now. Approximately 15% of the population in my country is foreign (and I mean really foreign, not just descendents of immigrants).
- 4 : Instead of constantly donating money your country should work on paying off its national debt, which is the highest per citizen in the entire world. If America was a firm, it would've been bankrupted long ago. Do the research, you'll be surprised... the USA is actually in bad credit.
- 5 : factions in Yugoslavia... indeed, because all of our troops were deployed in Rwanda at that time. Get your facts straight.
- 6 : You're proud to be an American ? Good for you. I'm proud to have had an education that amounts to something.

[Rexinre]

LOL, seriously ?

- 1 : The US only stepped into the European chapter of WW2 when the scales were already tipped over towards our side. Largely thanks to 6 years of support from Russia, might I add ? And why did you step in ? Only because the war finally reached you via Pearl Harbour... if that never happened, you would've probably just sat back and enjoyed the show. The US winning the war for us ? You watch too many Hollywood movies. Even the British did more... That being said, nothing but respect for the dead and especially those that die fighting for a good cause. I grant you that.
- 2 : Who knows, if Hitler won it might have been the best thing to happen to Europe in centuries. He was a good leader you know... he just had deviant views. And what did the US gain from it ? An economy after the Wall Street crash, absolute military dominance and perks everywhere. If WW2 didn't happen the way it happened, your "great nation" would mean nothing on a world scale right now. Exactly like when it was just "some big country across the big pond" before WW2. America didn't exist on the world-political arena before WW2... So you gained mighty much with it, that's a statement I could give ya on a silver platter !
- 3 : What people flock to the US ? Indians, Mexicans, Pakistanis, Chinese, Sudanese, Tsjetsenians... not exactly the most proliferant countries with well developed information networks, are they ? How many Europeans move to the US out of their own will ? Hardly any, and even then it's mostly just because they have to in order to promote at work.
How many immigrants do we get over here ? Too many. It is THE political issue number one right now. Approximately 15% of the population in my country is foreign (and I mean really foreign, not just descendents of immigrants).
- 4 : Instead of constantly donating money your country should work on paying off its national debt, which is the highest per citizen in the entire world. If America was a firm, it would've been bankrupted long ago. Do the research, you'll be surprised... the USA is actually in bad credit.
- 5 : factions in Yugoslavia... indeed, because all of our troops were deployed in Rwanda at that time. Get your facts straight.
- 6 : You're proud to be an American ? Good for you. I'm proud to have had an education that amounts to something.

LMAO, You are educated?

[mynameistin]

i support anyone on here in the army or marines or even SF of the airforce. due to my job in the airforce i dont deploy like these guys do but i do give a big thumbs up for it. as to some of this i just cant believe how dumb some of you are and the ones that hate us military folk. you need to get your head out of your ass.

[BigTuna]

LOL, seriously ?

- 1 : The US only stepped into the European chapter of WW2 when the scales were already tipped over towards our side. Largely thanks to 6 years of support from Russia, might I add ? And why did you step in ? Only because the war finally reached you via Pearl Harbour... if that never happened, you would've probably just sat back and enjoyed the show

Lend/Lease Act March 1941 US sent war supplies to England since they lost most of their military equipment in the battle of Dunkirk. Some 7 months before pearl harbor

The US winning the war for us ? You watch too many Hollywood movies. Even the British did more... That being said, nothing but respect for the dead and especially those that die fighting for a good cause. I grant you that.
US sent 2x the amount of soldier Britian had to Europe, also sent supplies in the billions to Europe along with massive post war aid and reconstruction supplies
- 2 : Who knows, if Hitler won it might have been the best thing to happen to Europe in centuries.He was a good leader you know... he just had deviant views.

After this comment I can no longer take you serious

And what did the US gain from it ? An economy after the Wall Street crash Our nation went into great debt to save your butts
- 3 What people flock to the US ? Indians, Mexicans, Pakistanis, Chinese, Sudanese, Tsjetsenians... not exactly the most proliferant countries with well developed information networks, are they ?
US immigrations policy treats people as humans and we really dont care where their from our doors are open.

How many Europeans move to the US out of their own will ? Hardly any, and even then it's mostly just because they have to in order to promote at work.
Only the Europeans who want to work in a ecomomy that has growth, or to make a great living

- 4 : Instead of constantly donating money your country should work on paying off its national debt, which is the highest per citizen in the entire world. If America was a firm, it would've been bankrupted long ago. Do the research, you'll be surprised... the USA is actually in bad credit.
I guess we are such a strong economy people have no problem lending us money since they know we are not going any where for a while, our worth out weighs our debt thats why we can get loans

- 5 : factions in Yugoslavia... indeed, because all of our troops were deployed in Rwanda at that time. Get your facts straight.
Your telling me every troop from every European nation left and went to Rwanda? What do you guys have a mititaries the size of a baseball teams?
- 6 : You're proud to be an American ? Good for you. I'm proud to have had an education that amounts to something.
Your so right we Americans are dumb rednecks, Europeans are at the pinacle of the education pyramid.

[black94sol]

WAHHHOOOOO!!!!

pissing contest...can i join in??

[BigTuna]

Its not a pissing contest about who dick is bigger, Im just not going to sit back be quiet when people spout of negativity about me, my country ect. Esp when their facts ect are BS.

[black94sol]

i don't have the patience to sit here and keyboard battle w/ someone across the world

.02

[Haysoos]

LOL Are you kidding? Isn't a war... Real estate. If it was a real estate issue we wouldn't be over there diplomaticly... We would be killing everything and anything in site. You guys need to look at what you are saying.

How would we get away with that and keep up current diplomatic relations? We are riding the edge as is, if we just went in there all gung ho shooting everyone, the entire world wouldn't give us the time of day. It's hard to rule the rule by pulling the strings behind the curtain when all the strings are cut.

Technically, this WAS a war, because wars are between countries. We're done with the war, now its the occupation, so we set up some permanent military bases and what do you know, we just got some prime real estate!

Think of everything you have heard, then think of everything you haven't heard. Somewhere in that process, you should be able to see a bit of the bigger picture.

[Haysoos]

WAHHHOOOOO!!!!

pissing contest...can i join in??

I have no interest in pissing contests, I'm here for discussion. Even in the heated slinging, theres good info coming from both sides, and as always I think you'll find the truth lies in the grey area that few people like to venture...

back on topic:
I just refuse to act like my country did all those good things and did no wrong. The executive branch has been pulling the wool over people's eyes for decades/centuries. Yeah, america has done a lot of good, but thats more to placate the world and the us population that simple good intentions. It's all about spin, you do something that will make you look bad, you have to do something to distract the people.

On the other hand, I am sure that some of those good things came from good intention. Quite a number were prbably hijacked by politicians for their gain, but the good was still done. Theres two sides to every fence...

I'm a realist. Power corrupts. Not all of our presidents and congressman are bad people, but more than half I would believe without a doubt are corrupt or only care about themselves and personal goals. Look at how people make it in politics! Bush handing over contracts to his friends while they are charging 2-3 times as much as they should?

Most days, I can't decide if I'm ashamed or proud to be an american... if you don't have the same problem, if you are simply proud, then I personally believe you have bought into the BS to some degree. No offense, to each their own, I would love to have that pride, but WW2 is over and this is not the same america.

[88cr-rex]

Bush handing over contracts to his friends while they are charging 2-3 times as much as they should?

Really?

Prove it.

What exactly should it have cost?

And here is the kicker, name me one other multinational, billion-dollar budgeted construction firm with 80 years of experience besides Halliburton.

[Beeza]

Orion wishes to seek the Truth.I guess with the depression you went through and a lot of time on the net you weren't just looking at Porn man.I've got a lot of respect for Orion.He says what other's are afraid to even look at.Everyone would prefer to get caught up in the he said she said Liberals this and Democrats that and not look at the BIG pitchure.That Truth will set U Free.It will hurt for a while but Trust me I wouldn't be feeding you guys this information if it wasn't going to benefit you.I have NO reason to talk down to you,shit all you guys have helped me soooo much.It's not you that's at fault it's the American Government they are EVIL but they are just a 'Gang',remember that.They borrow Billions of dollars (to fund wars etc)from the banking corporations who hold 90%+ of the world's wealth and if you look at the top of those corporations (and you ALWAYS have to look at whose at the top-Pyramid Structure-Money allows for this system) their are 13 family who control them,who are they......READ.I don't deny myself the truth and I always ask the BIG questions.Tupac only learnt about Illuminati while he was in prison (this was the only time he truly had good time to think and learn for long periods),so only 15 months.After he got out he created the alias name 'Makavelli',.He was going to release one album under the name 'Makavelli' which would contain the real truth about this 'System' and another album under his name '2Pac' which would be his club jams etc.7 days after he recorded 'Makavelli-The Don Killuminati 7 day theory' 'They' killed him.Who are 'They'? It's the same 'They' who killed all my heroes-Bob Marley,John Lennon,Jim Morrison,Aaliyah,Jimi Hendrix,Janis Joplin,,,the're are more oh yes many more just look at the CIA's programs called MK Ultra and Artichoke.Those who had celebrity status and spoke out about the 'EVIL' in this world.You see I'm pickin' up where he left off and I hope other do to.I could talk forever about this shit.

[CIVICRicerBoy]

Who knows, if Hitler won it might have been the best thing to happen to Europe in centuries. He was a good leader you know... he just had deviant views.

You must be kidding me. Deviant? The man is responsible for killing over 11 million people. Go read a book.

[CIVICRicerBoy]

Tupac only learnt about Illuminati while he was in prison (this was the only time he truly had good time to think and learn for long periods),so only 15 months.After he got out he created the alias name 'Makavelli',.He was going to release one album under the name 'Makavelli' which would contain the real truth about this 'System' and another album under his name '2Pac' which would be his club jams etc.7 days after he recorded 'Makavelli-The Don Killuminati 7 day theory' 'They' killed him.Who are 'They'? It's the same 'They' who killed all my heroes-Bob Marley,John Lennon,Jim Morrison,Aaliyah,Jimi Hendrix,Janis Joplin,,,the're are more oh yes many more just look at the CIA's programs called MK Ultra and Artichoke.Those who had celebrity status and spoke out about the 'EVIL' in this world.You see I'm pickin' up where he left off and I hope other do to.I could talk forever about this shit.

You, my friend, need to lay off the happy grass.

[OniFactor]

You must be kidding me. Deviant? The man is responsible for killing over 11 million people. Go read a book.

actually... he just wanted power, so he told the german people what they wanted to hear, to get him where he wanted. you know that he was of jewish heritage, right?

[Rexinre]

How would we get away with that and keep up current diplomatic relations? We are riding the edge as is, if we just went in there all gung ho shooting everyone, the entire world wouldn't give us the time of day. It's hard to rule the rule by pulling the strings behind the curtain when all the strings are cut.

Technically, this WAS a war, because wars are between countries. We're done with the war, now its the occupation, so we set up some permanent military bases and what do you know, we just got some prime real estate!

Think of everything you have heard, then think of everything you haven't heard. Somewhere in that process, you should be able to see a bit of the bigger picture.
The world didn't give us the time of day anyway (except for England and Aussie). Most of the world didn't want to get involved, mostly because they were intimidated. Espically when the terrists were making threats and beheading people. I don't care what anyone says when troops are given a loaded weapon and put in harms way, then told not to shoot until shot apon, its diplomatic. Bottom line.

I have heard and seen a lot of shit, so be carefull where you are going with the "bigger picture"

[Rexinre]

actually... he just wanted power, so he told the german people what they wanted to hear, to get him where he wanted. you know that he was of jewish heritage, right?
Oh, I see... So because he was jewish heritage its okay then right? My Father is Jewish, and I take major offence to some of thing things being put on this thread.

Hitler is and always will be a f*cking tool. So is Saddam, Zarqawi, Osama and whoever else kills innocent people with out reason. /story

Some of ya'll need to wake up and look at the shit you are talking, its just amazing.

[OniFactor]

way to put words there, that weren't there, or even implied.

i was simply pointing out that Hitler just wanted power, and would do anything to get it.

:TD: for assuming stupid shit.

[Rexinre]

way to put words there, that weren't there, or even implied.

i was simply pointing out that Hitler just wanted power, and would do anything to get it.

:TD: for assuming stupid shit.
Its not simply put, bottom line you are saying things that have no point.
You autta be careful what you say then espically right after this was said. and quoted...

Who knows, if Hitler won it might have been the best thing to happen to Europe in centuries. He was a good leader you know... he just had deviant views.


Just trying to keep it real. :TD: for defending Hitler.

[OniFactor]

i wasn't defending, i was just stating why he did what he did, for matt's sake. i was trying to make the point that the haulocaust was just Hitler's way of getting what he wanted.. think, Napoleon Bonaparte. same situation..

[Beeza]

You, my friend, need to lay off the happy grass.

:bigrofl:

yup I'm a thinker and Weed makes me think.But this shit is the Truth and again I'm not gonna live a life of denial.
And I'm trying man I really am,just went a month without touching the wacky backy.But damn I was up to 4am last night listening to Pac Wacked As! My problem is boredom.

[Rexinre]

i wasn't defending, i was just stating why he did what he did, for matt's sake. i was trying to make the point that the haulocaust was just Hitler's way of getting what he wanted.. think, Napoleon Bonaparte. same situation..

I now understand what you are trying to say, just the way you put it. By using words like "Actually" and then saying that stuff about him being part of jewish heritage and all.

In my eyes someone can do the most amazing things in the world (cure aids or cancer for example) once he starts killing innocent people, all the good stuff is outweighed by the bad.

[OniFactor]

I now understand what you are trying to say, just the way you put it. By using words like "Actually" and then saying that stuff about him being part of jewish heritage and all.

In my eyes someone can do the most amazing things in the world (cure aids or cancer for example) once he starts killing innocent people, all the good stuff is outweighed by the bad.

i was using the heritage just to display how psychopathic he was, to get his motives: he was willing to destroy his own history, just to be powerful. honestly, i try to stay neutral on the whole WW2 thing, simply because i feel that getting angry over it isn't learning from our past, in any way, shape, or form. that's probably why the way i say things it can be misconstrued

[1991rex]

this war was started on the basis of saddam having weapons of mass destruction.. none were ever discovered ( sorta applaud Canada for not getting involved as they felt that UN weapon inspectors should be allowed to continue their job) this war is probably going to keep escalating as the US has stated several times that they are not there to occupy the country but in i was in an iraqi citizen's position after seeing US troops there for 4 years i would seriously doubt that claim.. i don't see any EASY fix to that country's problems as u have 2 distinct groups that are at odds against each other.. 2 recent events should be enough that the world has had enough with the Iraqi war ..1 the democrats doing so well in last election and United States' strongest ally, England has recently made plans to put out of Iraq

[Haysoos]

The world didn't give us the time of day anyway (except for England and Aussie). Most of the world didn't want to get involved, mostly because they were intimidated. Espically when the terrists were making threats and beheading people. I don't care what anyone says when troops are given a loaded weapon and put in harms way, then told not to shoot until shot apon, its diplomatic. Bottom line.

I have heard and seen a lot of shit, so be carefull where you are going with the "bigger picture"

We are BEING diplomatic, because the rest of the world is already pissed at us. We can't afford to not be, especially if the US is to influence the rest of the world as it always has.

I still say this war is about getting a foothold of our own, diplomatically acceptable, in the middle east, that we can't be evicted from.

[The_Acid_Beaver]

Whya re we still in Iraq, My view:

I wear a big, red target (along with my fellow soldiers, Marines, Airmen, and . . . Seamen) so that the jacktards who, without logic, reason, sanity, care, or concern, wish to murder, rape, subjugate and intimidate just about everyone I know simply because we do not conform to thier ideologies will busy themselves trying to cast out the great, evil Americans from thier "country." Yeah, it pisses off a lot of people that some of us die, but hey, lots of people die for a lot less every minute of the year. I chose to put myself in harms way to make sure harm doesn't come to my home.

I believe I am right. I know there are many others in the Armed Forces of the United States that believe as I do. I, for one, will not tolerate another 9/11 type attack, especially since my family and freinds are almost all in NYC.

So, since the world would like to play patty-cake and share the wealth, even if it means letting someone destroy your heritage, way-of-life, and plain old differences, I say to the world: get bent! I am not a sheep to be slaughtered. If anyone tries to end my life, or my family's life, then I will do my best to end theirs before they succeed.

[achilles1981]

I now understand what you are trying to say, just the way you put it. By using words like "Actually" and then saying that stuff about him being part of jewish heritage and all.

In my eyes someone can do the most amazing things in the world (cure aids or cancer for example) once he starts killing innocent people, all the good stuff is outweighed by the bad.

Actually, he wasn't a good leader at all, just very charismatic. (According to our "history" books which are skewed to our point of view just like any other country's), he used the post war situation in Germany to control the people and get what he wanted.. killing anyone in his way. In order for Fascism to work, it has to continually get more extreme, and since was using the jews as an excuse for the German plight, the logical progression was to end up murdering many of them as well as the elderly and mentally handicapped.

Also, on the topic of US national debt.. why has no one brought up the fact that most of our debt is money that was loaned to other countries during WW1 and WW2 AND every other time a nation asked us for aid and NEVER PAID US BACK. Except Holland.

[88cr-rex]

sorta applaud Canada for not getting involved as they felt that UN weapon inspectors should be allowed to continue their job

http://www.un.org/Depts/unscom/unscmdoc.htm

http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/01fs/14906.htm

Continue what job? The one where they hang out by the pool in the sun because they can't get in to actually see any of the weapons facilities?

the democrats doing so well in last election

Whenever you win because someone is voting against "the other guy", I would hardly call that doing "well". When the american public votes, not on actual issues or ideology, but because all the media shows are car bombs and dead americans, I would hardly call that doing "well". When a party wins because the other party believes standing up for something means caving in for anything, I would hardly call that winning "well".

[Orion]

Lend/Lease Act March 1941 US sent war supplies to England since they lost most of their military equipment in the battle of Dunkirk. Some 7 months before pearl harbor

US sent 2x the amount of soldier Britian had to Europe, also sent supplies in the billions to Europe along with massive post war aid and reconstruction supplies

After this comment I can no longer take you serious

Our nation went into great debt to save your butts

US immigrations policy treats people as humans and we really dont care where their from our doors are open.

Only the Europeans who want to work in a ecomomy that has growth, or to make a great living

I guess we are such a strong economy people have no problem lending us money since they know we are not going any where for a while, our worth out weighs our debt thats why we can get loans

Your telling me every troop from every European nation left and went to Rwanda? What do you guys have a mititaries the size of a baseball teams?

Your so right we Americans are dumb rednecks, Europeans are at the pinacle of the education pyramid.


- Try having your citizens murdered by pillaging troops. This is what I believe to be America's greatest flaw : ever since the civil war you've never had a real war on proper soil. You go into a state of war way too easily because of this. And when a relatively small (compared to what happens every day elsewhere in the world) one-off event does happen on your soil, you get all traumatised and take half a decennium to get over it. Seriously, this is why we as Europeans don't like war : WW2 in Europe was like 9/11 every day for 6 years ! WW1 : just the same. We know what it's like, and there's nothing glorious about it at all.
- WW2 laid the foundation for the war economy that has brought you prosperity ever since. Talk about ROI...
- 2x the amount of soldiers, indeed, but way too late... and don't forget, you have 6x as many inhabitants as the UK (for instance) so relatively seen...
- Strong economy ??? Bwahahahaha.... sure, that's why the Euro as a monetary unit is 31,5% stronger than the USD today ! :rofl: Not to mention all the cutbacks your government has been forced to make over the past few years.
- Living standards in Europe are way above the US living standards. IIrc the USA are on the 18th place in the world welfare stats, Flanders (where I live) is in 3rd place. Belgium as a whole in 5th place due to the Wallony province being 8th in the stats (don't ask... long history reminscent of the north-south division during the American civil war). You wanna live good ? Move to Scandinavia. Sweden, Norway, Denmark... the most desirable places to live in the world living-wise. Unless you're an alcoholic like me. :)
- Actually, we do have tiny armies. We don't need them at the moment so why invest in 'em ? Besides, we have a small array of nuclear weapons too... plus we stock yours on our soil... you don't need troops when you have those.

Its not a pissing contest about who dick is bigger, Im just not going to sit back be quiet when people spout of negativity about me, my country ect. Esp when their facts ect are BS.

Idem dito, I don't crawl into my shell while someone tries to intimidate me. I fight for my opinion, and stand my ground when needed.

i don't have the patience to sit here and keyboard battle w/ someone across the world

.02

Well, I'm at work... this is actually recreation for me.


Just trying to keep it real. :TD: for defending Hitler.

Hey, wow now, I'm not defending anyone. But to the German nation he was a good leader. He brought a torn up country with *nothing* an economy, a workload, food on the table, a transport network, an army and what they believed to be a secure future. That's a lot to accomplish in 4 years time, especially if you're born into the lowest class of society like he was. And even though I don't agree with his methods, I'm not going to demonise him either like most people like to do. I'm far too sober for that.

[88cr-rex]

- 2x the amount of soldiers, indeed, but way too late... and don't forget, you have 6x as many inhabitants as the UK (for instance) so relatively seen...

So you want us to be more hawkish?
I thought you were the same person, that just moments ago, was clamoring that the United States gets involved with the smallest things only to push their weight around. So in World War II, we should have gotten in Earlier?!? How exactly can you have both? So we should have known ahead of time that this was a fight to "get in early" on? And exactly how much earlier did you want us to get in with troops?

- Strong economy ??? Bwahahahaha.... sure, that's why the Euro as a monetary unit is 31,5% stronger than the USD today ! :rofl: Not to mention all the cutbacks your government has been forced to make over the past few years.

Well here in America we have a federal reserve which decides the monetary level. If all we cared about was making our dollar look strong, they could decide to increase the amount of bonds they sell, decrease the money supply and inflate our dollar value. Then again we care about generating revenue so we decide for ourselves what the ideal monetary amount is for our nation.

He brought a torn up country with *nothing* an economy, a workload, food on the table, a transport network, an army and what they believed to be a secure future. That's a lot to accomplish in 4 years time, especially if you're born into the lowest class of society like he was.

Here is a brief economics lesson:
There are 4 factors of a free-market economy.
C+I+G+X. Consumer, Investment, Government and Exports. If you need more information check www.bea.gov

Anyways, like keynesian economics, tyrants, miltary leaders, totalitarians etc. all believe "G" or government should be the largest caption. And really when you think about it is easy to do. In fact the US still does keynesian as a short-term and the monetarism as the long-term. All you have to do is create money and with that build industry. This is a simple fix that pretty much anyone could do. Also, after the money has been given to the industrial sector, it in turn means money for the surronding towns etc. This is called an income multiplier as money grows outward from its input into the fringes of society. Think of a mall in the middle of nowhere. The people who work in the mall now have money to spend, so shops open around the mall. These people who work in the shops now have money to spend so other companies continue to emerge all from the start of building one mall.

At any rate, keynesian economics hits a wall eventually. Take the United States from 1968 to 1974. Inflation and unemployment were supposedly impossible to be together given that an adequate monetary supply would have meant the ability to buy or live. So like all tyrants, keynesian economics is easy to do and produces great benfits early on. If Germany would have won however, 10-20 years later and it would have been back to where they started only this time with world-wide "stagflation". Just look at latin america with its socialist ideals to increase the factor of "G" in their GDP.

[BigTuna]

Fixed it.

http://www.metacafe.com/fplayer/64312/americans_being_ambushed_in_bagdad.swf


http://www.metacafe.com/fplayer/29635/footage_from_iraq.swf

http://www.youtube.com/v/seGhTWE98DU

And 1991rex, I love how narrow minded Liberals are, Bushs war speech about iraq was more than 45 minutes and he laid out over 20 reasons for war, but all the Lib/Dem see to forget the entire speech and act like WMD's were the only reason. Libs/Dem reinvent history and rewrite things in order to focus just on the few points that prove their point. Yet throwout every other reason for war and act like WMD's was the sole reason, it was 1 of many.

We are in IRAQ, and will be there til IRAQ is a stable country no matter how long it takes to ensure their freedom.

[areskzc]

Thanx Big tuna

[black94sol]

We are in IRAQ, and will be there til IRAQ is a stable country no matter how long it takes to ensure their freedom.

:stupid: :werd:

as sad as it is to say that, you are completely right. ya know i find it funny how all these politicians are saying "we need to get out troops out" or "we are cutting back". THAT IS BULLSHIT :hammer:

how do i know, you might ask yourself?? well because we are spending a FUCKLOAD of the taxpayers(read: my promotion) money on new barracks and bullshit on a base that i'm not gonna care about in 5 months. YO, NEWSFLASH...i don't give 2 FUCKS about this country. IN FACT I HATE IT.

i'm sure i've said that before. anyways...carry on. :bravo:

[sql_civic]

thats just it, the US cant just "up and leave"

we get out of there and what happens? there is no governing and regulating force to keep "insurgants" under control. the country would then be overrun and in worse shape than when we got there. you think that there wouldnt be retaliation from them when there is no army or police to keep them under control?

shit would hit the fan


So many dumbass americans don't realize that simple fact. If I could, I would rep you for that, but apparently I need to spread some around...

Well I've read this entire thread and I'm glad to see you guys debating this. I grew up in the tail end of the sixties and seventies so I got to live through the Vietnam era thing. There was a whole lot more discussion and activism by young people regarding politics back then. Of course many of us were directly effected by govt policy back then, namely the war and civil rights.

Generally, I am liberal in my thinking but I vote across party lines often based on how well a candidate represents my thinking. Most of the generalizations made in this thread about liberals do not apply to my way of thinking but appear to be an attempt to deamonize the left. A good example is the idea that liberals oppose the war therefore they like hate the troops or don't support them or whatever. Such bullshit. Personally, I say if we're gonna do this "war" let's really do it. Let's have congress actually declare war, institute a draft, send over 500,000 troops, ration gas and other stuff. And let's clean house get it done!

My parents were immigrants from Germany who lived under Hitler and took the brunt of the war. I speak German and I've spent some time in other countries. So it's been interesting reading some of the comments about America saving Europe's ass and that Hilter was a good leader, etc. Some of you might find it interesting to hear my thoughts having sorta lived on both sides of this, but you all seem so firmly entrenched in your thinking that I don't you'd benefit from it.

Anyways, I quoted these 2 posts up top because I found them ironic. Prior to the war Colin Powell warned President Bush of this scenario that if we go in, chaos will result when we pull out. Unfortunately, the "dumbass american" who didn't realize this is in the White House. Oh and BTW, I don't think President Bush is evil like I think liberals are supposed to, I think he's either over his head or has another agenda. I just don't buy the WMD stuff and we gotta give the poor Iraqis their freedom, etc. It's the same propaganda I've heard for years. Sorry.

[Haysoos]

Well I've read this entire thread and I'm glad to see you guys debating this. I grew up in the tail end of the sixties and seventies so I got to live through the Vietnam era thing. There was a whole lot more discussion and activism by young people regarding politics back then. Of course many of us were directly effected by govt policy back then, namely the war and civil rights.

Generally, I am liberal in my thinking but I vote across party lines often based on how well a candidate represents my thinking. Most of the generalizations made in this thread about liberals do not apply to my way of thinking but appear to be an attempt to deamonize the left. A good example is the idea that liberals oppose the war therefore they like hate the troops or don't support them or whatever. Such bullshit. Personally, I say if we're gonna do this "war" let's really do it. Let's have congress actually declare war, institute a draft, send over 500,000 troops, ration gas and other stuff. And let's clean house get it done!

My parents were immigrants from Germany who lived under Hitler and took the brunt of the war. I speak German and I've spent some time in other countries. So it's been interesting reading some of the comments about America saving Europe's ass and that Hilter was a good leader, etc. Some of you might find it interesting to hear my thoughts having sorta lived on both sides of this, but you all seem so firmly entrenched in your thinking that I don't you'd benefit from it.

Anyways, I quoted these 2 posts up top because I found them ironic. Prior to the war Colin Powell warned President Bush of this scenario that if we go in, chaos will result when we pull out. Unfortunately, the "dumbass american" who didn't realize this is in the White House. Oh and BTW, I don't think President Bush is evil like I think liberals are supposed to, I think he's either over his head or has another agenda. I just don't buy the WMD stuff and we gotta give the poor Iraqis their freedom, etc. It's the same propaganda I've heard for years. Sorry.

I agree with a lot of what I'm reading. I've always said Bush was doing this for personal reason that I don't know. But it's easy to see that it's not any of the reasons he's given.

[bunger]

Some of you might find it interesting to hear my thoughts having sorta lived on both sides of this, but you all seem so firmly entrenched in your thinking that I don't you'd benefit from it.

X2

This debate, if you can really call it that, is pointless if you can't have an open mind about the ideas people are trying to put forth. Very rarely have I ever heard someone say something that didn't at least have some bit of truth to it. So please, before you excuse anyone's idea completely and criticize them for it, take a second to think about it... try to put your mind in a state where their ideas make sense, you might just gain something from it.

[black94sol]

and bump for a issue among americans

lets here some new debates

[Beeza]

Well I've read this entire thread and I'm glad to see you guys debating this. I grew up in the tail end of the sixties and seventies so I got to live through the Vietnam era thing. There was a whole lot more discussion and activism by young people regarding politics back then. Of course many of us were directly effected by govt policy back then, namely the war and civil rights.

Generally, I am liberal in my thinking but I vote across party lines often based on how well a candidate represents my thinking. Most of the generalizations made in this thread about liberals do not apply to my way of thinking but appear to be an attempt to deamonize the left. A good example is the idea that liberals oppose the war therefore they like hate the troops or don't support them or whatever. Such bullshit. Personally, I say if we're gonna do this "war" let's really do it. Let's have congress actually declare war, institute a draft, send over 500,000 troops, ration gas and other stuff. And let's clean house get it done!

My parents were immigrants from Germany who lived under Hitler and took the brunt of the war. I speak German and I've spent some time in other countries. So it's been interesting reading some of the comments about America saving Europe's ass and that Hilter was a good leader, etc. Some of you might find it interesting to hear my thoughts having sorta lived on both sides of this, but you all seem so firmly entrenched in your thinking that I don't you'd benefit from it.

Anyways, I quoted these 2 posts up top because I found them ironic. Prior to the war Colin Powell warned President Bush of this scenario that if we go in, chaos will result when we pull out. Unfortunately, the "dumbass american" who didn't realize this is in the White House. Oh and BTW, I don't think President Bush is evil like I think liberals are supposed to, I think he's either over his head or has another agenda. I just don't buy the WMD stuff and we gotta give the poor Iraqis their freedom, etc. It's the same propaganda I've heard for years. Sorry.

Truth ignored.Illuminati.It's not that difficult to understand just difficult to accept.There is a bigger pitchure than what 'they' show and tell us.Set yourself free.

[BigTuna]

If these people are so powerful they can mold and control the world then why in heavens name would they let a "informed" person like yourself exist or allow that extremely funny website in your sig to even be viewed?

If they are that powerful then why do they let you warn others of their evil plans? Heck if they can start wars and bring down buildings eliminating you and deleting websites should be childs play.

[black94sol]

speak(ith) the truth !!!! :TU:

[Beeza]

If these people are so powerful they can mold and control the world then why in heavens name would they let a "informed" person like yourself exist or allow that extremely funny website in your sig to even be viewed?

If they are that powerful then why do they let you warn others of their evil plans? Heck if they can start wars and bring down buildings eliminating you and deleting websites should be childs play.

There is heaps and heaps of people on here (the internet) that speak of much greater truth and they are alive.They can't just go out killing people cause they have been 'awakened',it's only when people get celebrity status that they then keep an eye on them because others will listen then.Bob Marley,Janis Joplin,Jim Morrison,John Lennon,Princess Diana,2Pac,Aaliyah,Michael Hutchence (there is many more) all had celebrity status and they all spoke the truth that's why they are all dead.
'They' control us through 'laws' implemented through the governments.The goverment is just a gang,they taught us gang shit.They borrow money from VERY powerful company's who have 90+% of the world's wealth.It's actually 13 Family's.
The Internet has 'them' scared because of all the information that can be had on here,this information is written by not just by 1 or 2 people but millions (so I'm not alone in my knowledge that's forsure).That's why they will be passing a law soon that says if you get more than 300 hits on your website per 1/4 year you have to report exactly what it is you are writing to the authorities.
I can warn people all I like about their evil plans but people won't listen WHY?
Because we all have a Mental Illness.We all have been brainwashed by the system (Governments).To undo all this programming is a depressing thing I've been there but I came through it and out the other side,my eyes are OPEN now,cheers Pac.
I know the authorities look for shit like in my sig....well they can 'SUCK MY BALLS' for all I care,read it and FUCK OFF.All my heroes are dead and I found out why.
I didn't ask for this world I was given it.I always seek the truth.That's who I am.I don't want this stress fuck NO! I just gotta play the hand I'm dealt.,and that's this world.
The system has got us all living in fear.We are too busy to care.Work/money is to keep us busy and livin' in fear,Presciption Drugs keep us suppressed (Government funded)and 'Illegal' drugs keep the prison's full etc etc and TV (Government controlled) is to Brain wash/control our minds.
At the end of the day I can't and I won't force any of this truth onto anybody,no-one could force it on me,you have to find the truth out for yourself if you want to set your mind free.
Sometimes I wish I didn't know the truth because a narrow mind is a happy mind but I was never happy with a narrow mind.When I look back on my life this journey began a long time ago.Questioning everything I mean,seeking the truth,so if you didn't do this like I have it would be one hell of a load of truth to dump on someone that's forsure TOO MUCH and that's why no-one is listening it's just too much and I'm just too busy..... Perfect huh? Remember this system has been planned for 6000 years! How's that for some truth,too much?
Everything is done indirectly or in a way which 'we' cant prove anything and they know full well we can't.A perfect recent example of this is 9/11.The day after they passed the patriot act,ouch! It's not the first time a government has blown up thier own building.Hitler did it in 1942,it's fact now.The following days he brought in heaps of new laws.
Sorry if my reply is scattered I'm at work so I'm writing this in between serving people in a CD shop.Brett.

[BigTuna]

Yawn.... I guess it easier to blame a magical society rather than actually deal with or take responsibility for your own issues.

That "Killuminati" BS is so packed full of lies and hatred its not even funny the second time I read it. It cracks me up that people blame EVERYTHING on one thing or another when so much of what is wrong in their own lives is a direct byproduct of their own decisions. The only fear in my life is higher taxes, terrorism towards my country, and the fear of not being the best father I can be. Fear is cop out, I go to work every day, I pay my bills and I enjoy my life. I guess it just easier to smoke blunts and talk about how "The Man" or "The System" is holding you down.

Sometime I wonder if having a "Free Mind" or being "Enlighted" gives people a free pass to be worthless and blame their issues on others.

[flatfourfan]

Yawn.... I guess it easier to blame a magical society rather than actually deal with or take responsibility for your own issues..

that pretty much sums it up right there.

[ryan89crx]

Yawn.... I guess it easier to blame a magical society rather than actually deal with or take responsibility for your own issues.

That "Killuminati" BS is so packed full of lie and hatred its no even funny the second time I read it. It cracks me up that people blame EVERYTHING on one thing or another when so much of what is wrong in their own lives is a direct byproduct of their own decisions. The only fear in my life is higher taxes, terrorism towards my country, and the fear of not being the best father I can be. Fear is cop out, I go to work every day, I pay my bills and I enjoy my life. I guess it just easier to smoke blunts and talk about how "The Man" or "The System" is holding you down.

Sometime I wonder if having a "Free Mind" or being "Enlighted" gives people a free pass to be worthless and blame their issues on others.come on now, its ALWAYS someone else's fault...

[mindless]

I think this says it all:

http://static.flickr.com/29/48050201_cb62458556.jpg

Btw Big Tuna and Ryan are right. That is all.

[mindless]

Thought this was funny as well:

http://malcontent.typepad.com/malcontent/images/mohammad.jpg

[Beeza]

Yawn.... I guess it easier to blame a magical society rather than actually deal with or take responsibility for your own issues.

Is this directed at me.I hope not.No need to get personnel.

Anyways (Burp) Good post Big Tuna,I understand exactly what your saying.Plenty of people blame the system for thier problems,Poor me.I'm not.I run a buisness,work 40-60 hrs a week,pay taxes blah blah blah.

I'm not going to enter a debate because it's up to you man,I would never push this stuff.It's awesome you care.Most don't,put it in the too hard basket.I totally understand why too.We're brainwashed,been head fucked and just don't want anymore thanks.

What ya reckon of this:
A Satanic Plot for a One World Government
The World Conspirators: the Illuminati



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who controls the monies

The Pilgrims of Saint Michael firmly believe that the nucleus of all evil stems from those who control the monies of the world, whom we generally refer to as the International Bankers. But one word we seldom here about, much less understand, is the Illuminati.

The Illuminati are elite men, those on the top, who control the International Bankers to control, for evil purposes, the entire world. Their agentur are bred, educated, and trained to be placed behind the scenes at all levels of government. As experts and advisers, they mould government policy so as to further the secret plans of their masters. They lure people away from God by offering them money, the world, the flesh, and the devil.

Those who direct the Illuminati are against Christ and for Satan. They always remain in the dark, unidentified, and generally unsuspected. They use all peoples to serve their diabolical purposes. They divide to conquer, supplying arms and money to both sides, instigating people to fight and kill each other, in order to be able to achieve their objectives. they foster the terrorism of atomic warfare and deliberately cause world famine. Their primary goal is to form a one world government to have complete control of the entire world, destroying all religions and governments in the process.

Recently I came across a tape entitled «The History of the Illuminati» by Myron Fagan in which Mr. Fagan explains in detail what the Illuminati is, how it started, and their conspiracy to form a one world government by the end of the 20th Century. Following are excerpts taken from this tape, based on William Guy Carr's book, "Pawns in the Game". The subtitles are from the "Michael" Journal.

Melvin Sickler

Here's da link:
http://www.prolognet.qc.ca/clyde/money.htm

Did you watch Farinheit 9/11 right to the end? What do you think about those FACTS at the end? The last 30 minutes will blow anyone away!
Millions of people think the same as I do.Are they all wrong too.
Anyways time to go learn some FUN car stuff.

[BigTuna]

Oh god your quoting Micheal Moore now...

[konigcivic]

Oh god your quoting Micheal Moore now...


He lost 99.9% of his credibility with his other posts, now its all gone.

[Beeza]

Oh god your quoting Micheal Moore now...

I take it the American Media have done there job.

He lost 99.9% of his credibility with his other posts, now its all gone.

'He' has a name 'He' is Brett.

There are now over 300 that's right 300 pieces of EVIDENCE that point towards 9/11 being an inside job.The top 5 will make the hair on the back of your neck stand on end.
I can talk about this shit all day but why bother if ya not listening right.
I'm a lover not a fighter.
You guys got personnel really quickly huh.
How was that Mets game last weekend :) .

[konigcivic]

I take it the American Media have done there job.



'He' has a name 'He' is Brett.

There are now over 300 that's right 300 pieces of EVIDENCE that point towards 9/11 being an inside job.The top 5 will make the hair on the back of your neck stand on end.
I can talk about this shit all day but why bother if ya not listening right.
I'm a lover not a fighter.
You guys got personnel really quickly huh.
How was that Mets game last weekend :) .

There maybe 300 pieces of evidence pointing to an inside job, in the mind of a conspiracy theorist.

For the rest of us in reality its simple, we know better. If any one of those things were true, this president and many government officials would have been next to Saddam in a noose. Tell me if these pieces of evidence are true, why has no one done anything about it?


Just for fun, what are the top 5 that will make my hair stand up?

The thing is, your talking down about the greate