Why Can't I get it in? Transmission Reassembly

[samuraiz]

ISB replaced, seal replaced, spring washer replaced, 5th gear swapped for HF, and just ad I was thinking "well that was pretty easy", I can't get the damn case back on!

Shift interlock guide bolt is not installed (though it was the first time I tried, till I remembered to take it back out). I keep playing around with my HF tranny (it will go back together fine) trying to see what the difference is and in the process I managed to get the big ball bearing stuck in the opposite half of the case.

What am I doing wrong? How do I get this damn thing back together?

[samuraiz]

Forgot to subscribe!

ooo, I just noticed TransZex is online! This may not be the end of the world after all!

EDIT
I also should mention that the bearing isn't stuck all the way into the housing, only about halfway and i've been trying to pull it out by sneaking an allen wrench behind it and pulling up with a pair of channel locks. No luck. Do you think I should just shove it the rest of the way in there? If I do then i'll definately have no hope of getting it back out, but the case might finally go back together.

After some more toying, the same thing happened to my HF parts tranny...

[samuraiz]

Guess I missed him, but I can understand, this isn't how I want to spend my saturday night either.

[transzex]

careful pulling that sucker out, you don't wanna have to snap it back together when it comes apart and your chasing balls all over the room!

First I'd see if you can tap it all the way home, BE EVEN or you can crack the bearing, or worse THE CASE!

I ALWAYS install the outer half with the bearong on the mainshaft. You might have a bur or corrosion in the bearing opening on the case, that will need checked.

IF you get the bearing all the way in there are two way to get it back out.

First is a rubber hammer.....turn case upside down (make sure dowels are out) and hit on the end to knock the bearing out, Second way is even easier.

Set the case in front of a electris space heater and go back to cleaning the sealer off the mating surface out other case half. In a few minutes the bearing should just drop right out, scaring you.

IF you do seperate the bearing.....which I've done.....set the inner race on a flat surface like the work bench. Lay on the bearing cage with the balls...tend lay on the out race.

Practice your best "wax on/ wax off" Karate kid moves, then mash the outer race on with your hand.

[samuraiz]

careful pulling that sucker out, you don't wanna have to snap it back together when it comes apart and your chasing balls all over the room!

First I'd see if you can tap it all the way home, BE EVEN or you can crack the bearing, or worse THE CASE!

I ALWAYS install the outer half with the bearong on the mainshaft. You might have a bur or corrosion in the bearing opening on the case, that will need checked.

IF you get the bearing all the way in there are two way to get it back out.

First is a rubber hammer.....turn case upside down (make sure dowels are out) and hit on the end to knock the bearing out, Second way is even easier.

Set the case in front of a electris space heater and go back to cleaning the sealer off the mating surface out other case half. In a few minutes the bearing should just drop right out, scaring you.

IF you do seperate the bearing.....which I've done.....set the inner race on a flat surface like the work bench. Lay on the bearing cage with the balls...tend lay on the out race.

Practice your best "wax on/ wax off" Karate kid moves, then mash the outer race on with your hand.

Got the bearing back out, it did separate but it was simple enough to get it back together.

I can get the case back together fine without that bearing, so I know it is most definately the culprit. I've hit harder than I think I should on the case, trying to get it to seat with the bearing in there, but no luck. I"ve even done some sanding where the bearing would be recieved to help it in a bit. It's easier to get the bearing into the opening by hand, but still no luck if it's on the shaft, not even close. Its like it's not even starting. It's lined up and everything, but it refuses to go back together.

[samuraiz]

So, since the main bearing will FALL out of the top half of the tranny case when the tranny case is heated up, I take it then that heating the whole top half of the tranny case prior to (Re) attempting to install it might help get it to fit onto the bearing...? (Maybe do this in comnbination with putting the bearing in the freezer...?) Since I did replace the ISB, which the main shaft sits in, and this $^%# bearing sits on the top of (that shaft) maybe the ISB is a little skewed (tho it looked perfect) and thats causing this other bearing to be a little off in its location relative to the other half of case? I sure don't wanna take everything out to check the seating of the ISB... I wonder too if anybody has had to ever work the mainshaft on the clutch side of the tranny (careful not to damage splines on it) to get the bearing at the other end to go into the housing.
Any other ideas on this ?

[samuraiz]

I'm still sitting here with my thumb up my ass. IDK what else to try. I'm scared I may have damaged something already with the amount of force i've applied.

[SovXietday]

I had a hell of a time getting my case back on, could not do it no matter how hard I tried.

Ended up finding out that the oil guide plate (that little ugly plastic piece that the bearing sits up against was smashing itself into the end of my mainshaft and wouldn't allow the case to close.

Did you swap your mainshaft at all, or are you still using the same one?

If that's not the problem, make sure where the bearing sits is clean and has absolutely no burs or shavings stuck to it. This will catch that bearing and give you hell.

Otherwise I've found that patience normally gets it on, it'll either just randomly slip on or it'll finally show you what the problem is.

[NOSAJ]

damn hope you get it together.

I will be putting my tranny back together tonight for the first time and I hope it goes okay

[s_18]

I just opened my tranny today and put it back together, and my case just falls on.
I tapped it slightly with a hammer, but basically it fell on by itself.

I don't think it could be possible to knock the ISB crooked in there...
If it's seated, it should be right. You should check though, if you're uncertain.
It only takes a few minutes to get the shafts out, and see...
Atleast it did for me today... Second time I did it, and things went alot smoother than the first time!

However, I hope you can figure it out. Did the bearing stick in the case when you opened it?
Is it a new bearing, or the old one?

[samuraiz]

I just opened my tranny today and put it back together, and my case just falls on.
I tapped it slightly with a hammer, but basically it fell on by itself.

I don't think it could be possible to knock the ISB crooked in there...
If it's seated, it should be right. You should check though, if you're uncertain.
It only takes a few minutes to get the shafts out, and see...
Atleast it did for me today... Second time I did it, and things went alot smoother than the first time!

However, I hope you can figure it out. Did the bearing stick in the case when you opened it?
Is it a new bearing, or the old one?

ISB is a new bearing, the other one (countershaft?) is old and is the one that seems to be hanging up.

[s_18]

The countershaft bearing is hanging? Where the snap ring hits it?

[samuraiz]

The countershaft bearing is hanging? Where the snap ring hits it?

I wish, it's not even making it to the snap ring. It's hung up against the housing it's supposed to slip into!

[transzex]

I notice one thing lacking.......

http://webhollis.com/albums/Funny-Forum/Ray_Can_t_See_Shit.jpg

[s_18]

Yeah, some pictures would indeed be helpful in us (well, mostly Bone) helping you.

[samuraiz]

Prob is, I only have access to the car every other weekend. I live in orlando where I attend UCF, but the car is in Melbourne at my 'rent's place since I can't leave a disabled car outside my apartment. I'll try to get some pictures up ASAP. I would have posted some already if I thought there was anything useful to be shown. You really can't see much of anything with the case less than an inch away from being on. I'll take some of it with the case off, the inside of the case, and the case (almost) on next to a ruler so you can see how much off I am. Anything else?

[samuraiz]

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9483/trannyreassemble001xi6.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trannyreassemble001xi6.jpg)http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4816/trannyreassemble003zx4.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trannyreassemble003zx4.jpg)
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3886/trannyreassemble005cv4.th.jpg (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trannyreassemble005cv4.jpg)http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/927/trannyreassemble006mm7.th.jpg (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trannyreassemble006mm7.jpg)
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/9471/trannyreassemble009lm4.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trannyreassemble009lm4.jpg)http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/818/trannyreassemble014cp2.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trannyreassemble014cp2.jpg)

[transzex]

Only thing I can see wrong, you have 1-3-5 gears engaged at the same time.

[samuraiz]

Only thing I can see wrong, you have 1-3-5 gears engaged at the same time.

Shouldn't that be impossible? Obviously that would keep it from working correctly, but would that keep the case from going on?

Every day I become more and more aware of the limits of my knowledge.

[transzex]

if the shiftfork shafts are pushed out and not hitting there holes in the outer case, yes it would be a issue.

Remove gearsets/shift fork assembly, install the outer case. I bet it fits.

[samuraiz]

if the shiftfork shafts are pushed out and not hitting there holes in the outer case, yes it would be a issue.

Remove gearsets/shift fork assembly, install the outer case. I bet it fits.

I KNOW it will, because if I remove the just the countershaft (I still don't know if that's the right name, it's the top one in the pictures) bearing, the case fits.

[samuraiz]

Can anyone explain to me WHY it is important to leave the shift interlock guide bolt out untill the case is on? I can line it up with the slot NOW and I expect it will be much more difficult once the case is sealed.

EDIT
I just realized it's not the countershaft bearing (assuming the countershaft bearing is the one that deals with the snap ring). It's the big one that sits highest, I don't know what to call it.

[Chiovnidca]

Can anyone explain to me WHY it is important to leave the shift interlock guide bolt out untill the case is on? I can line it up with the slot NOW and I expect it will be much more difficult once the case is sealed.

You can do it either way, I usually do it after so I dont have to keep flipping the transmission over. As long as the slot is lined up it doesn't matter much.


EDIT
I just realized it's not the countershaft bearing (assuming the countershaft bearing is the one that deals with the snap ring). It's the big one that sits highest, I don't know what to call it.
The outer mainshaft bearing? Is the case buggered up keeping it from going in the hole? Make sure the shift shafts go in freely also.

[transzex]

I'll bet the mainshaft is not fully seated, judging by the fact you have 3 gears engaged.

[s_18]

From looking at my pictures, it seems the mainshaft bearing is supposed to site slightly lower than in your pictures.
Of course, this corresponds with what Bone says. He is the guru, and tranny meister above all.

Here's my tranny, shafts fully seated.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/s_18/DSCF0500.jpg

If you compare the pictures with your own tranny, there seems to be a difference, allthough it's hard to say due to different angles.
Really hope you get it together soon. Not fun when things don't go your way.

[s_18]

After comparing another image you posted, I'll have to say, they do seem pretty similar.
If you snapped a picture of the base of the mainshaft, where it seats in the ISB, that might be helpful.