What's a good spring rate to autoX on?

[hulkbuster]

Okay I have heard on here that 10kg on the front and 6kg on the back is a good setup for an EG. Is this true? I personally was thiking 13kg front and 7kg in the rear. what do you guys think? I'm gonna call ground control 2morrow and see what happens with pricing.

[vietnameeh]

huh...? where did you hear that setup was good
its all preference i think... but i believe the norm would be stiffer in the rear but maybe EGs are differnt

didnt you say u were on 1000lb rates a while back?

[hulkbuster]

got rid of them. am going with a different setup now.

[solo-x]

what class are you planning on running in? what tires are you going to be running on? what shocks do you currently have?

[SillyImportRacer]

Hre's some good sertup info. Maybe not your chassis but might be a good starting point. http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=12

[hulkbuster]

Man you guys are acting like I fot tons of money or somethin'! J/K but not really. Anyways I am going to run 14'' Azenis RT-615's. Got a ITR front sway, H brace lower tie bar, all around lower tie bars, no rear sway because I (like a fucking idiot) bought the Apexi WS catback and it's muffler is too big for me to use a rear sway. Actually thinking about making my own axleback to swap out for autoX's only (probably will be straight pipe, yeah I hate it too but it's a hell of a lot cheaper than another axleback. Besides I'm not switching to another catback for full time because I love the sound of my WS!). The only thing I have left are the ebay coilovers and OEM struts (I know once I get stronger spring rates that they will kill the struts that are on here but right now don't really have alot of money!) I called a local speedshop here and they said they can get me Tanabe springs at whatever rate I want for $125 a pair. Is this good? I never could get a hold of someone from ground control on the phone so I called these guys and I thikn that for $125 a pair is pretty good what do you guys think?

[vietnameeh]

soyour running SM

your going to want to get a new wheel and tire setup, runo n R comp tires... that will get you beter times then spending money on suspension and running on street tires

but id go with ground control then those tanabes

[DirtyDC4]

$125 a pair is fairly reasonable IMO.

[hulkbuster]

Yeah I thought so too. It's hard to talk to ground control, I can't get them on the phone. I like making my orders over the phone not online to much room for interpretation.

[solo-x]

do you really want to improve the handling of your car, for autocross AND street? sell all your braces and strut bars. take that money and buy a set of koni sports. put any spring on them. or, if you can swing it, buy the coilover sleeves and 2.25" to 2.5" spring adapter from koni, then find someone selling used springs that are 8" long, 2.5" diameter and 400lbs/in for the front, 450lbs/in for the rear. if you worked real hard at finding quality used stuff for a little less then new, you could have a 90% coilover setup for under $600.

all the other crap you've done to your car will pale in comparison to the improvement this suspension will give you. just don't lower it too much.

[gpny]

ITR bar on the front, and NO bar on the rear... I would not want to drive your car... It must have horrible understeer.
You should probably modify the cat back to fit a bar in back.
Post some pics, I'm sure I can give you advice...
I've had an HKS hiper, and now have a full 3" setup that does not hit anything!

[hulkbuster]

I talked to ground control today and they said that I should run 350 lbs. all around to make up for the rear sway. Plus he said that those spring rates are going to max out the AGX but he said that it would be fine as long as I don't go with stiffer springs. what do you guys think about that? I can get them for $59 each so we are looking at around $300 dollars for all 4.

[vietnameeh]

soudns good the GC guys know their stuff

[SillyImportRacer]

If GC says that's what you should run, then that's what you should run. eos

[solo-x]

Personally, I wouldn't waste my time with the AGX's. They are a vastly inferior damper compared to the Koni's. Save your money, buy right the first time.

Why are the AGX's so inferior? Well, they are adjustable, but use a needle and seat style adjuster. This makes them so they don't have a lot of low speed rebound control (what you want for changing the handling feel of the car) and they also increase compression force simultaneously. That is really not good for tuning the handling. I can go into more detail if you like or if you don't believe me. I can even post links to the shock dyno plots of the KYB's, Koni's and Tokico's.

If you go with AGX's and start autocrossing a lot, you'll end up wishing you'd bought Koni's instead.

[hulkbuster]

The problem I have with koni's and tokiko's is they are too damned expensive. I'm sure they are better, I never said that they weren't but the problem still remains is that I don't have a lot of money to spend here. I mean I have one 3 yr old son, one more on the way and a wife. Plus it's right after christmas, so I don't have alot of money.

[gpny]

Where are you located?
Seriously, try to alter the exhaust and run a swaybar.
You can get it done for less and the handling will be great.
If you're near NY, I could probably help you on the exhaust for cost of wire/gas (5$) post pics of current setup...

[vietnameeh]

The problem I have with koni's and tokiko's is they are too damned expensive. I'm sure they are better, I never said that they weren't but the problem still remains is that I don't have a lot of money to spend here. I mean I have one 3 yr old son, one more on the way and a wife. Plus it's right after christmas, so I don't have alot of money.


didnt you mention you wanted to be competitive?

the only way would be to start off with whats known to be the best.. then of course seat time

[gpny]

Hulk, can you list your engine setup?
Aside from Chris Travis's stripped, custom geared, ITR powered civic, I don't thinks civics are that competitive in SM class against the modded Lancers and Stis... ESPECIALLY N/A d16 powered street cars with questionable suspension setups.
Chris has an INSANE susp setup, fully adjustable, and a 32MM ASR rear bar... Plus he's an absolutely incredible driver! He rode with me once last year and gave me tips. That day he got FTD beating GJ dixon's SS Z06 (GJ got pax though, and I got an awesome ride in the Vette...)
My car has 272hp, and (though I'm not a great driver yet) I'm way behind some of the other SM cars.

[solo-x]

1) sell your h-brace and strut bars
2) take the money from #1, combine it with the money you were going to waste on AGX's and buy fair condition used Koni's for $300
3) buy the adjustable sleeves and 2.5" spring adapter from Koni
4) use the springs that came with your Ebay coilovers.
5) when you get more money, buy springs with a higher spring rates or a different balance

While a rear bar would be nice, it is certainly not necessary for regional autocrossing.

I understand you don't have a lot of money. That is why I'm giving you advice on ways to get the most for your dollar. Buying the KYB's is almost as bad as just throwing away money. For example, you bought your ebay coilovers. Now you're looking at buying gc's because your ebay cheap crap isn't cutting it. HELLO!!! Do you learn from mistakes, or are you destined to repeat them time and again? If you buy the AGX's, I give you 1-2yrs before you are looking into buying Koni's. If you buy the Koni's, you'll be happy with them 5yrs into the future. Buy right the first time and only spend money once.

[hulkbuster]

Dude you aren't understanding what I am telling you. I did NOT buy these coilovers, they came with the car. I am trying to make do with what I have, that's all. And besides, seat time is the most important thing in auto X. I'm not a bad driver have had a few FTd's my self in other cars. Posted FTD in an HS Prizm 90' GSI (4AGE small port, a bad ass engine!). I mean I had a badass setup, but the car was still in HStock. I understand to be really competitive I need to set the car up well. But then again, when I posted those FTD's I had no kids either. Kids+ wife = no money! I agree I should have probably no gotten the tie bars, but selling them would be an act of God now! BTW, I live in Starkville, MS.

[vietnameeh]

uhhh you must not have a very competetive region if your getting FTD in a Hstock car, (not trying to be a jerk) :)

well it seems like your set on the KYBs, do what you can afford... but if your looking for bangforbuck... i say get rcomps

[gpny]

uhhh you must not have a very competetive region if your getting FTD in a Hstock car, (not trying to be a jerk) :)


FTD in an HSTOCK :bull:

FTD stands for fastest time of the day. FTD usually goes to SM or SS cars in my region.

[hulkbuster]

That's cool guys I think I'm a little too old to tell bullshit on the internet. I got FTD in street tire, We have 2 major classes street tire and open tire. I won 1st place in street tire along with FTD in street tire. I am looking at my regional scca site to post the results from the event. I got a question who wants to bet me I didn't and me proove you wrong? Any takers? Dude I have been autoXing for like 5-6 years I thik I know what FTD means I'm not a noob to the SCCA solo game!

[vietnameeh]

hahaha im just joking with you...i guess... but its rare you see a Hstock car take FTD...

but tell us what you decide to go with

[latapx]

IMHO, if you don't have the money to do it right the first time...wait until you do. If it means being slow for a while, well, be slow and enjoy the seat time.

[solo-x]

I'm sorry, I missed that the Ebay junk came on the car.

Your AGX's are going to cost $300, right? FIND SOME USED KONI'S!!!! Seriously. I bought a real beat up set for $100. I've seen several sets going for $250-$300 that were in perfect working condition. Even if you buy new, you shouldn't be paying more then $450. You can reuse your Ebay coilovers in the meantime, then buy better ones later.

[gpny]

That's cool guys I think I'm a little too old to tell bullshit on the internet. I got FTD in street tire, We have 2 major classes street tire and open tire. I won 1st place in street tire along with FTD in street tire. I am looking at my regional scca site to post the results from the event. I got a question who wants to bet me I didn't and me proove you wrong? Any takers? Dude I have been autoXing for like 5-6 years I thik I know what FTD means I'm not a noob to the SCCA solo game!

Ok, If you really got FTD I'm super impressed! I would believe PAX, but FTD in an hstock car must mean you're either an awesome driver, or the higher classed cars had serious driving/technical issues...

[Rayden]

I've auto-x'd for about 5 seasons. . .spent a lot of time talking to veterans.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO START OUT WITH THE BEST SETUP!! Auto-x vets will say spend the majority of your dough on rubber. Your tire choice will be more than adequate for auto-x. I have a crx with the 615's and they're awesome. Not too many people can afford R compound tires for auto-x, at least not a lot of people I know. I spent over 700 bills on a set of Kumho R's a few years back, I'll agree, they are awesome. Lasted me approximately 12 events or so, not really economical. One auto-x site where I ran 2/3 of those events has a horrible tarmac. . .on a smoother surface they don't wear nearly as much.

I would def. agree that the axleback/rear sway situation would help if you fixed it. I don't think that it will cost you much. . .especially with gpny offering up help. But, not an absolute. Get good with what you have then move up from there when you can afford it.

Your best bet at getting better is seat time, seat time, seat time. And I plan on getting G.C.'s myself this year for the crx-good choice. Save up and get a diff. set of shocks next winter.

[hulkbuster]

That's what I'll probably do is wait and spend the money on something good. I just hate having "coilovers" (ebay) and not being able to use them the way I think they should be designed for. That's the reason I was gonna buy springs for the ebay sleeves look while I have sparked some intrest in this thread, what's the diffrence in the 2 types of sleeves? Ebay sleeves and the GC sleeves? What's the difference?

[vietnameeh]

well i believe the GC sleeves that were mentioned earlier are specific to koni shocks (also called babytubes)

[hulkbuster]

Oh okay. I get it now.

[solo-x]

Yep, the Koni specific sleeves, either from Koni or GC, have an adapter that captures a snap ring on the koni's. It eliminates o-rings, set screws, and all the other crap the other sleeve/shock combinations have to use.