Ground Control's & Koni Yellows.

[evosix]

People who have had experience with this setup please chime in.

What makes this such a great setup anyway?

i was thinking about 11k front/ 6k rear.

[gimmezell]

I have them with stock rates on my EJ8. No complaints here.

[SillyImportRacer]

This might help w/ your set-up
http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=12

[SilentWrath*]

the koni yellows are what make the setup
im riding on koni yellows and omnipower sleeveovers 450lb/in fr. 350lb/in rr.

ride quality is better than my old setup h&r sports (a much softer spring) and kyb agx's

[latapx]

People who have had experience with this setup please chime in.

What makes this such a great setup anyway?

i was thinking about 11k front/ 6k rear.


OK, for starters Ground Control does not use KG/mm ratings ala JDM, they use plain and boring US units of lb/in. I'm not sure where you got those rates from but they will make the car understeer like a pig (IMHO). Plus, if its a street car, 11k (which is about 650-700lb/in) will be nearly unstreetable. If you plan on using the car as a daily driver I'd suggest staying in the 300-350lb/in range and the yellows. If you're an avid autocrosser, then you can start with what Chris mentions in his car setup page at www.redshiftmotorsports.com

The "great" thing about Koni/GC is the asjustability of the Koni shocks and the ease with which they can be rebuilt and made to work with even stiffer springs. As for GC, they make quality stuff and you can select pretty much any spring rate you want to make the car handle to your liking.

Good luck!!!:p

[hondajosh]

WIthout a doubt is a proven combination...Just pick up a grassroots motorsports magazine or attend an SCCA event, everyone and their grandma uses that set up......they use it because it works!

[latapx]

the koni yellows are what make the setup
im riding on koni yellows and omnipower sleeveovers 450lb/in fr. 350lb/in rr.

ride quality is better than my old setup h&r sports (a much softer spring) and kyb agx's

Ride quality is better because most lowering springs are too soft relative to the amount that they lower the car. This means that you are often hitting bumpstops which give the unpleasant ride. Your 450 spring rate is a little high for an off the shelf Koni but it can still work OK at that high a rate. If you were to revalve it it'd be even better. OTS Koni's are typically set to handle up to about 350-400lb/in springs. Anything over than that and you are going to have trouble controlling rebound.

[evosix]

the koni yellows are what make the setup
im riding on koni yellows and omnipower sleeveovers 450lb/in fr. 350lb/in rr.

ride quality is better than my old setup h&r sports (a much softer spring) and kyb agx's

Do you feel the handling is much improved? does the steering feel neutral?

[evosix]

OK, for starters Ground Control does not use KG/mm ratings ala JDM, they use plain and boring US units of lb/in. I'm not sure where you got those rates from but they will make the car understeer like a pig (IMHO). Plus, if its a street car, 11k (which is about 650-700lb/in) will be nearly unstreetable. If you plan on using the car as a daily driver I'd suggest staying in the 300-350lb/in range and the yellows. If you're an avid autocrosser, then you can start with what Chris mentions in his car setup page at www.redshiftmotorsports.com

The "great" thing about Koni/GC is the asjustability of the Koni shocks and the ease with which they can be rebuilt and made to work with even stiffer springs. As for GC, they make quality stuff and you can select pretty much any spring rate you want to make the car handle to your liking.

Good luck!!!:p

Thanks for the suggestion. The reason i was thinking about the 11k 6k (close to 600lb/in front 300lb/in rear) rates was because thats what that guy on American Togue was running on his eh2, and everyone who tested his car rated it very high.

What are the pros and cons over softer front vs. stiffer front and softer rear vs. stiffer rear? Why do most people chose to go with a softer rear?

[SilentWrath*]

Do you feel the handling is much improved? does the steering feel neutral?

with the addition of the koni/omni combo and a 19mm rr. swaybar the car handles excellent, very neutral feel through turns, steering is very responsive with this setup (kumho ecsta spt 195/50)

id recommend a similar setup to anyone for street use

[turbohappy]

What are the pros and cons over softer front vs. stiffer front and softer rear vs. stiffer rear? Why do most people chose to go with a softer rear?
There's less weight in the rear so it will be more comfortable with a proportionately softer rear. However, you will notice almost all autocrossers using rear-stiff setups. The soft rear requires staggered fitment or something.

650 is awfully stiff. My setup is 450F/550R and it would be undriveable daily IMO. I just drive it to events and also use it like a truck to haul large things ;)

[evosix]

There's less weight in the rear so it will be more comfortable with a proportionately softer rear. However, you will notice almost all autocrossers using rear-stiff setups. The soft rear requires staggered fitment or something.

650 is awfully stiff. My setup is 450F/550R and it would be undriveable daily IMO. I just drive it to events and also use it like a truck to haul large things ;)

i'm setting mine up for some road racing/autocross and some driving around town; 400lb/in / 250lb/in sound good?

[latapx]

i'm setting mine up for some road racing/autocross and some driving around town; 400lb/in / 250lb/in sound good?

IMHO, that would be a recipe for an understeering pig. If you are concerned about around town driveability keep the spring rates around 350-400 but make it even front and rear. It'll dial out some of the understeer but not make it hairy for everyday use. Keep in mind that most STS drivers use higher rear rates, a huge rear bar and OEM, HF or no front bar. That is the extent to which people go to dial out the understeer.

[latapx]

Also, keep in mind that the rear of the car has a different motion ratio than the front. i.e., the front spring/shock acts almost directly on the hub whereas the rear acts about 1/3 of the way up the lower control arm. So, let's say you have 300lb springs front and rear, due the this discrepancy, the front spring will act as a 300lb spring and the rear 300 lb spring will act like an @200lb spring due to the lever arm.

[turbohappy]

Also, keep in mind that the rear of the car has a different motion ratio than the front. i.e., the front spring/shock acts almost directly on the hub whereas the rear acts about 1/3 of the way up the lower control arm. So, let's say you have 300lb springs front and rear, due the this discrepancy, the front spring will act as a 300lb spring and the rear 300 lb spring will act like an @200lb spring due to the lever arm.
Good point which I had actually forgotten about :TU:

Looks like I can't give any more rep to you, but I would ;) Says I need to spread it around.

[latapx]

Good point which I had actually forgotten about :TU:


Most of us TRY to forget about the physics...then get sucked right back in!

[evosix]

Also, keep in mind that the rear of the car has a different motion ratio than the front. i.e., the front spring/shock acts almost directly on the hub whereas the rear acts about 1/3 of the way up the lower control arm. So, let's say you have 300lb springs front and rear, due the this discrepancy, the front spring will act as a 300lb spring and the rear 300 lb spring will act like an @200lb spring due to the lever arm.

thanks for the excellent advice! so there's a 100lb difference between the rear and the front? so keeping things even would mean that you should get +100lb of whatever the front spring rate is for the rear? i.e. 300f 400r?

while i'm talking suspension; what mm sway bar would you recommend for the rear? what are some other ways to make your car steering feel neutral?

-appreciate all the help so far guys!

[latapx]

thanks for the excellent advice! so there's a 100lb difference between the rear and the front? so keeping things even would mean that you should get +100lb of whatever the front spring rate is for the rear? i.e. 300f 400r?

while i'm talking suspension; what mm sway bar would you recommend for the rear? what are some other ways to make your car steering neutral?

-appreciate all the help so far guys!

It is not +100, it is a ratio. The higher the rate the more of a difference it'll be. IMHO, for a street car you should make the rates even front and rear. If you auto-x, track the car and know that your car will want to swap ends if you are in the middle of a turn and slam on the brakes then you can use higher rear rates with a big rear bar. If the previous sentence intimidates you, keep the rates even or higher in the front to keep an understeering balance.

[turbohappy]

Listen to latapx, even rates and a regular swaybar setup (stock or bigger front and rear) makes a decent street car and a decent autocross car. Something like 300-350 all around should be good.

[xxbrualxx]

thats the setup ima use koni yellows with GC's..heard nothing but good things about them...when do u plan on sitnalling yours?..it hink im holding out for spring..my setup is just for street use..but where i live..ehre in east bumblefuck..backroads r windy as hell...fun to drive...but once my speed starts ot increase..even 10 miles above speed limit..i can feel my cars weight shifting around..compared to our G35 coupe..i could go to about 15-20 miles over..and then i would start to feel the weight shift..but still have more control so taht is what i want for the civic...to handle better around all these twists and turns..and the koni yellow/GC combo is s'posed to be one of the better setups as far as handling

[evosix]

It is not +100, it is a ratio. The higher the rate the more of a difference it'll be. IMHO, for a street car you should make the rates even front and rear. If you auto-x, track the car and know that your car will want to swap ends if you are in the middle of a turn and slam on the brakes then you can use higher rear rates with a big rear bar. If the previous sentence intimidates you, keep the rates even or higher in the front to keep an understeering balance.

what rates do you suggest for a daily driver with good handling characteristics>?

[latapx]

Listen to latapx, even rates and a regular swaybar setup (stock or bigger front and rear) makes a decent street car and a decent autocross car. Something like 300-350 all around should be good.


300 all around or 350 all around with yellow's would make a nice daily setup that won't bounce you around and handle well.

Note of caution: Since you are free to lower all you want with a GC setup, remember that the shocks (front specially) run out of travel before the suspension does so don't set the car too low. If you must have the slammed look, invest in some GC upper mounts to try and keep your shocks alive. Also, the lower you go the more camber you'll end up with which will chew your tires alive unless if you install a camber correction kit (such as ingalls). I really can't say "lower the car up to x amount" because in all honesty, i have no idea how much lower my car is than stock. All i know is that my jack rails under the car are slightly less than 4" off of the ground...this is TOO low for an off the shelf shock, specially with no GC upper mount. I can run my car this low because my Koni's have been shortened and revalved and I have the GC upper mount...plus its not a daily driven car...its an auto-x and track car only. The lower the car goes, the higher the spring rate has to be to keep the suspension off of the bumpstops, the worse the ride will be.

SO, before you go out and buy the GC/Koni setup (or any other), think long and hard about what your planned uses for the car will be and make sure that you are honest. If you drive the car on the street 90% of the time and auto-x every now and then, a true "on the edge" setup is not for you. If you are simply after the slammed look, you may need a rough riding setup just to keep your car in one piece. If you have a DD, and this car is your track whore (my situation) then you can go very aggresive on the setup to have the best handling car possible...fully knowing that you need to drive the car different on the street so that you don't sneeze and end up 3 lanes over.

[evosix]

300 all around or 350 all around with yellow's would make a nice daily setup that won't bounce you around and handle well.

Note of caution: Since you are free to lower all you want with a GC setup, remember that the shocks (front specially) run out of travel before the suspension does so don't set the car too low. If you must have the slammed look, invest in some GC upper mounts to try and keep your shocks alive. Also, the lower you go the more camber you'll end up with which will chew your tires alive unless if you install a camber correction kit (such as ingalls). I really can't say "lower the car up to x amount" because in all honesty, i have no idea how much lower my car is than stock. All i know is that my jack rails under the car are slightly less than 4" off of the ground...this is TOO low for an off the shelf shock, specially with no GC upper mount. I can run my car this low because my Koni's have been shortened and revalved and I have the GC upper mount...plus its not a daily driven car...its an auto-x and track car only. The lower the car goes, the higher the spring rate has to be to keep the suspension off of the bumpstops, the worse the ride will be.

SO, before you go out and buy the GC/Koni setup (or any other), think long and hard about what your planned uses for the car will be and make sure that you are honest. If you drive the car on the street 90% of the time and auto-x every now and then, a true "on the edge" setup is not for you. If you are simply after the slammed look, you may need a rough riding setup just to keep your car in one piece. If you have a DD, and this car is your track whore (my situation) then you can go very aggresive on the setup to have the best handling car possible...fully knowing that you need to drive the car different on the street so that you don't sneeze and end up 3 lanes over.



I do have two cars but i DD both equally, so, I wouldn't mind an aggressive setup on the honda (eh2), we have some long windy mountain roads here, i pretty much want to set it up for that. That in mind would you still recommend nothing higher than 350?

I still haven't done any motor work to the car, I still have the 8valve cx motor in it! I'm purely focusing on suspension right now, I wanna get it right the first time. I'm definitely be getting top hats later, or fabricate my own.

thanks for the advice again, repped ya!

[latapx]

I would say start with the 350 and if you ever feel like you need the car to be stiffer, add sway bars and/or order new springs from GC. Keep in mind that adding Koni yellows will stiffen up the ride, and the 350 rates are likely more than double what the car came with stock.

[solo-x]

a couple of things. first, the koni/gc combo is so common and successful because of the koni shocks. the valving found in the sports is 10x's better then anything else you'll find for the same price range. the support from koni-NA is 100x's better then any JDM or Korean manufacturer. and the scalability and adjustability of the sports is infitisimally better then everything else on the market in the $1k range.

second, the motion ratio's of the EF/EG/EK civics is NOT 1:1 up front. it's actually lower then the rear motion ratio. the front is roughly 1.5:1 while the rear is around 1.3:1. what does this mean? your front wheel rate is ~46% of your spring rate (ie, if you had a 1000lb/in front spring, your wheel rate is only 460lbs/in) and the rear wheel rate is ~55% of your spring rate. you could actually have softer rear springs and still have a higher rear wheel rate. for example, my 05-06 setup had 850f/750r and the rear wheel rates were higher then the fronts.

third, spring bias is only one of many contributing factors to understeer. for a street car that isn't lowered much, 450f/250r alone is not "a recipe for an understeering pig" by any means. i've had a 700f/550r setup before that worked quite well, and that had a big front bar on it too. if it weren't for cone trouble i would have a pro-solo win to show for it against hollis. don't get suckered into thinking that stiff front springs make the car understeer. the package as a whole will determine what the balance is like.

[latapx]

a couple of things. first, the koni/gc combo is so common and successful because of the koni shocks. the valving found in the sports is 10x's better then anything else you'll find for the same price range. the support from koni-NA is 100x's better then any JDM or Korean manufacturer. and the scalability and adjustability of the sports is infitisimally better then everything else on the market in the $1k range.

second, the motion ratio's of the EF/EG/EK civics is NOT 1:1 up front. it's actually lower then the rear motion ratio. the front is roughly 1.5:1 while the rear is around 1.3:1. what does this mean? your front wheel rate is ~46% of your spring rate (ie, if you had a 1000lb/in front spring, your wheel rate is only 460lbs/in) and the rear wheel rate is ~55% of your spring rate. you could actually have softer rear springs and still have a higher rear wheel rate. for example, my 05-06 setup had 850f/750r and the rear wheel rates were higher then the fronts.

third, spring bias is only one of many contributing factors to understeer. for a street car that isn't lowered much, 450f/250r alone is not "a recipe for an understeering pig" by any means. i've had a 700f/550r setup before that worked quite well, and that had a big front bar on it too. if it weren't for cone trouble i would have a pro-solo win to show for it against hollis. don't get suckered into thinking that stiff front springs make the car understeer. the package as a whole will determine what the balance is like.


I know the fronts are not 1:1...i was simply trying to provide an example. Since I've never measured the lower control arms on my car...do you have measurements to back up those motion ratios??? Last I looked under my car the rear shocks were further inboard on the control arm than the fronts which would make it a lower wheel rate than the front (with an identical spring). I could be wrong...and if I am would like to learn.

[turbohappy]

I know the fronts are not 1:1...i was simply trying to provide an example. Since I've never measured the lower control arms on my car...do you have measurements to back up those motion ratios??? Last I looked under my car the rear shocks were further inboard on the control arm than the fronts which would make it a lower wheel rate than the front (with an identical spring). I could be wrong...and if I am would like to learn.
Aren't there more factors than that to wheel rate?

[latapx]

Aren't there more factors than that to wheel rate?


TO my knowledge its based on the length of the arm and where the spring/shock mounts to it relative the the part of the arm where the opposing forces (wheel) acts. If you could mount a spring/shock to the center of your wheel bearing, that would be 1:1 and the 200lb spring would be 200lbs...etc.

[solo-x]

i'll have to dig up my setup sheets to find the actual measurements, but yes, i did measure them. i've measured just about everything there is to measure on the car. the only thing i haven't done yet is map the suspension pickups in 3D and model the suspension.

there are other factors to calculating motion ratio. the angle the spring is mounted at relative to vertical plays a pretty big part in the motion ratio as well. for example, you'd figure since a mac strut suspension car mounts the spring right to the knuckle that the motion ratio would be 1:1. however, due to the angle the strut is mounted at the motion ratio is actually quite lower. for example, an e30 bmw mounts the strut at an angle that gives a motion ratio of .9:1. (wheel moves 1", spring compresses .9") the wheel rate is the motion ratio squared, so the wheel rate is 81% of the spring rate. ie, 500lb/in spring rate yeilds 405lb/in wheel rate.

on EG/EF/DC/EK chassis cars, the rear motion ratio is more favorable then the front. also, i forgot to include in my first post that there is a great deal of rounding going on, so take that into account. they are within a couple percent of real world which is way more accurate then most people need. for simplicity sake i just use 45% front, 55% rear. (not to mention that the motion ratio actually varies a small bit depending on where in the suspension stroke you are.)

[latapx]

i'll have to dig up my setup sheets to find the actual measurements, but yes, i did measure them. i've measured just about everything there is to measure on the car. the only thing i haven't done yet is map the suspension pickups in 3D and model the suspension.

there are other factors to calculating motion ratio. the angle the spring is mounted at relative to vertical plays a pretty big part in the motion ratio as well. for example, you'd figure since a mac strut suspension car mounts the spring right to the knuckle that the motion ratio would be 1:1. however, due to the angle the strut is mounted at the motion ratio is actually quite lower. for example, an e30 bmw mounts the strut at an angle that gives a motion ratio of .9:1. (wheel moves 1", spring compresses .9") the wheel rate is the motion ratio squared, so the wheel rate is 81% of the spring rate. ie, 500lb/in spring rate yeilds 405lb/in wheel rate.

on EG/EF/DC/EK chassis cars, the rear motion ratio is more favorable then the front. also, i forgot to include in my first post that there is a great deal of rounding going on, so take that into account. they are within a couple percent of real world which is way more accurate then most people need. for simplicity sake i just use 45% front, 55% rear. (not to mention that the motion ratio actually varies a small bit depending on where in the suspension stroke you are.)


Very good info! I'd love to see some of this stuff. I'm at the point now where I've done all of the "standard" (for an STS Civic) stuff to my car and want to develop it further...but before I changed anything wanted to get the car down to my race weight, weigh it, suspension components, get CG, motion ratios, etc. and figure out what the suspension frequency is to see what the "calculated" spring rate should be and compare that to what I've been using and what I'd like to use based on my experience and time with the car.

[latapx]

i've had a 700f/550r setup before that worked quite well, and that had a big front bar on it too.


Just as an update...I've changed my setup a bit since I am going to be doing more track events now as opposed to auto-x.
Previous:
450/550
Suspension techniques bars front and rear (22mm)
Camber - -2.9F, -2.2 rear
Toe - 1/8" out front, 1/8" in to 1/4" out depending on mood in rear
215/40-16 V710

New:
650/550
ST bars front and rear
Camber - -2.4F, -1.8 R
Toe - minute out in front, 0 rear
225/45-15F,205/50-15R

Car felt very neutral at the track and did not have as much lift throttle oversteer as before...much more stable under braking/trail braking and this was on full tread depth RA-1s. Once some of the rubber gets worn off and they are not as squirmy I'm sure that the car will feel even more dialed in.

[My93Civic]

Wow. Thanks for bringing this thread back from the dead! I had no idea but this thread answered most of all my questions!

My 1993 Honda Civic DX Hatchback EH2 is in need of new shocks, so I plan to do this right and go all out. I am getting KONI Yellow/Ground Controls and thinking about a spring rate of F=400lbs, R=450lbs. This rate was actually reffered to me by turbohappy a while back --thanks!! -- so now I am about to spend some dough.

I plan to also get 2 top hats for the front. Plan to add a rear ITR sway bar later on.

I was wondering what you think about this setup latapx? Will it be uncomfortable -- like earth shaking on bumps -- or is it totally bearable? I've asked around and people actually say go for this rate, they seem to like it.

THANKS!

[Eyal 951]

it really depends person to person. My setup is 400f/500r on koni/gc's and I daily drive it. I have a 22mm rear sway (itr+ASR) and a 22mm front sway. While you do need to understand the physics involved with a rear biased setup like mine, its not all that bad. While its not very soft on the road, its not unbearable for me. I quite enjoy it, however I may have pretty low comfort standards.
This setup is meant for road racing.

[My93Civic]

I lost the information I had before regarding the top hats and if they are needed. Someone said I should buy them for the fronts so they won't bottom out or something of that nature.

What are the Ground Control tophats for again and is it okay if I don't purchase them now? I'm strapped on cash. I figure I will just go with GC/KONI without 2 tophats for the front.

Is that okay? Thank you

[Eyal 951]

If you don't buy them then make sure you aren't overly low, or doing track events. They just allow the shock to work without riding the bumpstops/bottoming out which is bad for the shock, and worse for handling. You should be fine on the street without them if you aren't slammed.

[My93Civic]

If you don't buy them then make sure you aren't overly low, or doing track events. They just allow the shock to work without riding the bumpstops/bottoming out which is bad for the shock, and worse for handling. You should be fine on the street without them if you aren't slammed.

Thanks, I won't be ever going slammed. I just want a decent 2-3 finger gap.

Can't wait till I get mine! Ordering hopefully soon.

Getting them from the USA instead of here in Canada. Will save over $400CAD when getting them from good USA than Canada.

:mikej:

[SprayMySol]

My sol is slammed, it rides super smooth with really stiff suspension

its like 3" from ground, 2.5" drop

it just scrapes on speed bumps and stuff of the sort like inclines but its not messing anything up i can tell

[pearl62]

Just as an update...I've changed my setup a bit since I am going to be doing more track events now as opposed to auto-x.
Previous:
450/550
Suspension techniques bars front and rear (22mm)
Camber - -2.9F, -2.2 rear
Toe - 1/8" out front, 1/8" in to 1/4" out depending on mood in rear
215/40-16 V710

New:
650/550
ST bars front and rear
Camber - -2.4F, -1.8 R
Toe - minute out in front, 0 rear
225/45-15F,205/50-15R

Car felt very neutral at the track and did not have as much lift throttle oversteer as before...much more stable under braking/trail braking and this was on full tread depth RA-1s. Once some of the rubber gets worn off and they are not as squirmy I'm sure that the car will feel even more dialed in.

Awesome feedback latapx. I've always felt my 450/350 f/r setup was pretty balanced. I was thinking if I want to get stiffer I'd have to do it all round, to maybe 550/450.

I have a question for you regarding camber... I'm currently running 0 front and -1.8 rear. Should I maybe adjust for -1 front as a good compromise between street and track for a weekend autocrosser? I'm currently running Yoko ES100s, going to Azenis RT615s later. I see you're running the V710s so maybe that explains the high negative front camber.

[riva]

IMO yellows/GCs suck for a daily driver. You get used to it after a while, but that doesn't make it good. I'm talking potholed streets and bumpy freeway driving monday through friday. If its a funday sunday car or a track thing thats another story. Thats what they are made for.

Comparing it to a too low bottoming out non-coilover setup and then saying its better is kind of pointless. Yeah its better than that obviously.

[pearl62]

Depends what's important to you... If the track times make you smile all week, you'll ignore the discomfort. ;)

[latapx]

IMO yellows/GCs suck for a daily driver.

That will depend on a lot of things. What spring rate? How low? Is the shock bottoming? Is the shock properly adjusted for the spring rate being used? Yellows/GC doesn't immediately equal a bad daily driver...all of the other things I mentioned does...but then again, it will for every spring/shock combo if not setup properly OR for the right purpose. There is no such thing as an all out auto-x/track car that makes a comfortable daily driver. More handling typically means less comfort as spring rates get higher, shocks get stiffer and the car gets lower.

[latapx]

Awesome feedback latapx. I've always felt my 450/350 f/r setup was pretty balanced. I was thinking if I want to get stiffer I'd have to do it all round, to maybe 550/450.

I have a question for you regarding camber... I'm currently running 0 front and -1.8 rear. Should I maybe adjust for -1 front as a good compromise between street and track for a weekend autocrosser? I'm currently running Yoko ES100s, going to Azenis RT615s later. I see you're running the V710s so maybe that explains the high negative front camber.

I would never auto-x a FWD car with less than -2.0 camber in the front. The only reason that I reduced front camber when I went with the stiffer front springs is because on my previous track sessions I was killing the insides of the tires under braking...not utilizing the whole tire when I needed it most. So far, where i have it set now seems like a good balance between cornering and braking on a road course. I haven't autocrossed with this set up yet...I likely won't like it for autocross, but we'll see.

IMHO you shouldn't get too much inside edge wear at -2.0, specially if you drive agressively. If you want to be more competitive, you'll need to get closer to -2.5 to -2.8 to get the most grip out of the front you can. Keep in mind a side effect of more negative camber...less forward traction and braking traction. Its all a balance. Also, with more negative camber the tire will roll over less, allowing lower tire pressures to utilize more of the tire and allow it to come up to temperature quicker. With my previous settings when I used to run street tires I used 32f/24r on the old 215 Azenis and 37/27 on the 615 Azenis...the 615 was about 1 second quicker on a mid 30 second course in my testing.

[pearl62]

Yet again, awesome info. I'll try adjusting to -2 in front and see how that works out.