Lowering my car question

[deathbydefault666]

What are the benifits of lowering my car? I bought some lowering springs for cheap, and I was wondering what else I need to do to be able to corner better, I like drifting in my stock suspension and tires but I want to know more. Thanks to anyone who helps!

[Clutchmaster]

lower ride height gives you a lower center or gravity which in turn can improve handling as well as acceleration

[94z6ex]

add some strut bars and upper and lower tie bars and youll be golden :TU:

[CrazyConscious]

I'd say go for coilovers...i think they are a much better choice...adjustable ride height with matched shock dampening...You'll need a camber kit too...but there not much more...With things like suspension its better to do it right the first time rather than re-do it later...

[Beeza]

Can't forget looks.I'm just about to lower mine.I'm only doing the springs,I was tols my shocks are fine (72,000km).If I had the $$$ I would do it properly but King springs and stock struts (72,000km) should be perfect for what I'm after.I'm not looking for a full-on race set-up or anything though.

[94z6ex]

Can't forget looks.I'm just about to lower mine.I'm only doing the springs,I was tols my shocks are fine (72,000km).If I had the $$$ I would do it properly but King springs and stock struts (72,000km) should be perfect for what I'm after.I'm not looking for a full-on race set-up or anything though.

i dont know the specs on the kings springs, but i wouldnt go over a 1.5" drop on stock struts.........

[nation of kong]

Drifting?

Throw in a sway bar (might need a subframe brace based on what size and what car) that will help alot as well. Can't forget about tires the single best thing you can do for your handling ability...aside from learning how to drive.

[deathbydefault666]

What will sway bars do for you? I'll deffs get rims and good tires this spring, but not for now I live in ohio and its snowy. Also what do tie bars do? Do you mean tie rods? Thanks to everyone who helped except the guy who thinks it looks cool to lower his car. Go before show faggot!

[Haysoos]

If you REALLY want good handling, you need the ES poly bushings for your suspension (get the ES master Kit), a good set of shocks (KYB AGX, Tokico Illuminas, Koni sports aka koni yellows), strut tower bars at the least and possibly a rear sway bar, like an OEM Si rear bar.

What springs are you using? Lowering your car won't help a lot if you get springs with too low of a spring rate, which most cheap springs have. The cheap springs are for the people who just want their car lower but don't know dick about handling. Eibach, Neuspeed, H&R will all give you lowering with a higher spring rate so you get improved handling from the lower center of gravity and the stiffer springs.

If you want to go on the cheap, you could always get (shocks) KYB GR2s or Koni Reds. They are non-adjustable OEM replacements that are designed for lower than stock (but not slammed) and give a little better performance than stock I believe.

It all depends on how much money you want to spend I suppose, and how much "better handling" you want.

EDIT:
"sway bars" prevent body roll. excessive body roll can cause the wieght to shift and make for undesirable handling. with less body sway, the wieght can stay more evenly distributed to all tires.

[Beeza]

What will sway bars do for you? I'll deffs get rims and good tires this spring, but not for now I live in ohio and its snowy. Also what do tie bars do? Do you mean tie rods? Thanks to everyone who helped except the guy who thinks it looks cool to lower his car. Go before show faggot!

Oh my fucking god!! Did u just call me a faggot?! You obviously don't use your brain to often do ya mate because saying something like that is just a short cut to thinking.
Lowering your car adds to appearance everyone knows that.
I reckon ya saw that I was from Australia so ya thought you could call me a faggot in front of ya peers and think ya all that,well I got news for ya buddy,you just proved what a dickhead u are.Fuckin pussy :haha:

[Siege911]

If you want to go on the cheap, you could always get (shocks) KYB GR2s or Koni Reds. They are non-adjustable OEM replacements that are designed for lower than stock (but not slammed) and give a little better performance than stock I believe.


I'm riding on Tein s-techs and koni reds... first of all the koni reds are adjustable (all koni shocks are), just not externally adjustable. The setup I have is great for my daily drive, not too stiff at all... I also have a front strut tower bar and a rear itr sway... I love it

And we dont need any name calling guys... calm down. :hammer:

[modsHXcivi]

Another FWD drifter ....:noway:

[xxbrualxx]

Another FWD drifter ....:noway:

lol..ass draggerrrr...

just addin to all the fun name calling in here....:alky:

[Beeza]

And we dont need any name calling guys... calm down. :hammer:[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly.But if you call me something nasty...I am going to have a problem :shocked:.

[mugenej8power]

trays under rear wheels in FWD = tokyo driftage.

To the OP: come on man.. would you rather pay thousands in suspension or steal two trays from Mcdonalds, Burger King, Chik-fil-a,etc. for free, and go out there and show em

[Fooshitinkinjssomethingorother]

Just don't go overboard on your suspension mods. It's better to take small steps to determine what you think you should upgrade next. Some people find that stopping at a certain point makes the car good for THEM. Remember, you may have all the goodies underneath, but if the car handles like shit and you can't do anything about it, then there's no point in even driving it.

Here's what I always tell people (and what's been told to me, gotta pass it on :) ) about what they should try to upgrade first:

As mentioned ealier, TIRES!! Single most benficial upgrade to your suspension. Some nice kicks will have stiffer sidewalls to prevent roll-over, and a more aggressive tread pattern and rubber compound to really stick to the road.

What you do next would depend on what the car does that makes you feel uncomfortable when you're at its limit. Most times this is brake dive (exactly what it sounds like) or body roll. Both can be reduced by replacing the stock dampers and springs, putting in some beefier sway bars (won't really help the brake dive, but it does help with the body roll), or doing both. I'd suggest doing the dampers and springs first as some people find the stock sways to be adequate with the newfound firmness from the springs and such. If you still feel wobbly, grab yourself some sways. Two options here: solid, or tube. Both have been proven on the track, and each are viable options. Solid bars are well, solid :lol: Tube bars are hollow instead of being a big hunk 'o metal so weight shavers tend to favor them to get every last ounce out of the car. Once you decide that, you can also get adjustable or non-adjustable sway bars. These use a mounting system that lets you put more or less pressure on the bar (stiffness) once the suspension is loaded and give you a little leeway in dialing in your setup. It also aids in making the car streetable and trackable at a moment's notice.

If you find it still needs some beefing up, it's time to look into bracing. There are a myriad of options here, so i'll just outline the most common ones.

Strut braces: These bolt onto the tops of your strut towers and tie together either side of the car. These usually provide the biggest gain in adding rigidity since they cover such a large gap. Some even employ a traiangle design that bolt onto the firewall in the engine bay or into the floor or rear body panel in the trunk.

A or C-pillar braces: These braces usually go about midway up the pillar and sometimes use the stock seatbelt locations to bolt in. Some use other locations, or require that you custom mount it, so be sure you look at it before you buy. Just be sure it doesn't obstruct your view too much out the back.

Full cages: Obviously the ultimate in rigidity. A full cage will not only provide superior beefing up of the chassis, but also protect you in the case of a rollover on the track. Keep in mind that if you get in a wreck on the street doing something stupid, you're probably going to get hurt by it. So either only explore this route for your track car, or don't try anything stupid on the streets. 'Nuff said. If you intend on adding a cage, a proper seat and harness system would be suggested as well since they'll hold you in place better and keep you from bouncing around. Keep in mind that harnesses aren't intended for street use and can do more harm than good in a wreck.

Aside from that, practice! Get as much seat time on a track or cone course to familiarize yourself with your new setup. Don't be afraid to explore different settings. I've been tinkering with ride heights and stiffness settings on my coilovers for the past 6 months and still can't seem to settle on a combo that works for me. :lol: In experimenting you'll also discover what not to do. Making some things too stiff can lead to some un-expected turn-arounds in the corners, so be on your toes whenever you make changes! And whatever you do, DON'T TEST ON THE STREETS!!! If you absolutely have to try new stuff out, find someplace far away from other drivers, and large immobile objects like lamp posts, etc.

So do some research, ask questions, and find out what works for you. :TU:

[gblanc]

So your car doesn't look like this...
http://www.d-series.org/forums/vbpgimage.php?do=full&p=4906&d=1165808117

[SillyImportRacer]

Fooshitinkinjssomethingorother hit the nail on te head. Decide how you're going to use your car. Then, mod it incementally.

btw, lowering gives you an added bonus of improoved aerodynamics.

[solo-x]

great post Fooshitinkinjssomethingorother, but i disagree with your assesment of strut bars and a/c pillar bars. those bolt in "chassis stiffening" solutions are a crock of marketing BS and do nothing but add weight. from an appearance perspective, they are what they are, but from a performance perspective they WILL NOT improve the handling of your car.

nate

ps. my statement is based on data gleaned from testing with my DL1 datalogger and nationally competitive STS car. i'm not the only one that has done this testing either, nor are my results and conclusions unique. i've heard comments to the affect that the chassis "feels better", but this is not reflected in handling performance and could very well just be a placebic affect. i felt no difference with my car with or without the strut bars.

[Beeza]

^^Very Interesting.It definately 'feels better' and I definately could take corners a lot faster after I put all 4 strut bars on so....???

[20civic00]

what about skunk 2 springs?

im kinda planning on getting them for my 2000 4 door. is the spring rate decent on those?

[Haysoos]

great post Fooshitinkinjssomethingorother, but i disagree with your assesment of strut bars and a/c pillar bars. those bolt in "chassis stiffening" solutions are a crock of marketing BS and do nothing but add weight. from an appearance perspective, they are what they are, but from a performance perspective they WILL NOT improve the handling of your car.

nate

ps. my statement is based on data gleaned from testing with my DL1 datalogger and nationally competitive STS car. i'm not the only one that has done this testing either, nor are my results and conclusions unique. i've heard comments to the affect that the chassis "feels better", but this is not reflected in handling performance and could very well just be a placebic affect. i felt no difference with my car with or without the strut bars.

I have never heard anything like this. Not saying you are wrong or anything, just saying you are the first to say that strut tower bars do nothing.

What people claim makes sense, that being that the bars connect the tops of the strut towers to either: A. reduce flex of the chassis, or B. keep the struts parallel under flexing from hard cornering.

Now, performance benefits aside, what about the chassis? Surely throwing suspension and tires that are loads better than stock will cause more flex of the chassis under cornering. Are you telling me that this flex is perfectly fine to have?

I dunno, doesn't make sense to me, but I haven't tested shit, so I can't claim to know more about it than you. Just curious.

[Fooshitinkinjssomethingorother]

great post Fooshitinkinjssomethingorother, but i disagree with your assesment of strut bars and a/c pillar bars. those bolt in "chassis stiffening" solutions are a crock of marketing BS and do nothing but add weight. from an appearance perspective, they are what they are, but from a performance perspective they WILL NOT improve the handling of your car.

Yeah, I've heard both sides, only reason I added them is because some people feel they help, so more power to them. :TU:

[solo-x]

^^Very Interesting.It definately 'feels better' and I definately could take corners a lot faster after I put all 4 strut bars on so....???

the human body makes for a really shitty accelerometer. if you went faster around a corner, i'll bet money it was purely a placebo induced boost in confidence that was responsible for it.

[solo-x]

Now, performance benefits aside, what about the chassis? Surely throwing suspension and tires that are loads better than stock will cause more flex of the chassis under cornering. Are you telling me that this flex is perfectly fine to have?

i'm saying i've seen no evidence that supports the claim that strut bars increase chassis stiffness. no manufacturer has ever stress tested a chassis with their product on it and the testing i've done shows no performance improvement like you'd expect if you were appreciably improving chassis rigidity. flex is bad, wasting money on a product that doesn't deliver on it's claims is too.

[turbohappy]

I think it really depends on the chassis. Even fairly similar cars can be quite a bit different. My EF chassis is so stiff it won't sit on 4 jackstands, strut bars seem to have negligible effect. My del Sol was much softer, strut bars seemed to make a difference.

[Beeza]

^^Great answer,it definately sounds correct.The struts have made a difference in my car though.For example before the struts when I drove out of my driveway and go of the small gutter bit I could feel and hear the chasis twist a bit(not a lot).But after the struts she is stiff as a board.So I don't know how much of a performance gain this makes but yeah it feels heaps stiffer so that's money well spent in my book.

*small gutter bit* HA!

[deathbydefault666]

Ya good post Fooshitinkinjssomethingorother thats a real good help, When I first bought my civic I realized I loved to race(this sounds gay but) like on inital D. On curvy roads is where I would bring stupid cars that would rev there engines at me. I won alot of these races but it was reall hard for me to keep faster cars off on the strait aways, so I beefed up my engine. I have a better advantage now and I can deffinatly beat all the cars with shitty mufflers and inexperianced drivers. But im shure with this reputation growing bigger, better opponents will come chalenge me. this is why I inquire about suspenshion I know it needs improved and now im learning just as fast as with my engine. Thank you! go before show faggot!