Old school tranny question

[85SiHybrid]

Ok I am running a 87 Teg trans on the turbo'd D16A1 in my 85 Si, I have heard of people using the 89 accord 5th gear in this trans. Anyone done this or know someone that has?? Or do you have a better suggestion? Currently, in 5th@80mph I am running 4k on the tach. The accord 5th gear is supposed to drop that 500 rpm. Any input??

TIA,
Cj

[transzex]

I've heard from some of the Accord forums that the gears swap, but that is all.

[85SiHybrid]

Ok, so any other gear swaps that are known to work in this tranny/configuratin?

Cj

[buymysoul]

It is supposed to be the Accord LX-i or the 85-87 Prelude (I think only si?) There is a writeup about it on the 3geez board. The nice thing about those transmissions is there is a little "hat" that is at the top of the transmission. Theoretically you could get 5th out of one while it is still in the (junkyard) car. :)

I'm currently getting my 3geez account out from lockdown. Couldn't remember my password 5 times and now I have to wait.....

You have to log on to see the How-to article. I'll cut and paste it here in a little bit.

[buymysoul]

Oh, and you know the integra 88-89 gear is a little taller, right? .823 vs your .848

For a concrete %99.9 positive the gear will work thing, check out www.transtarindustries.com , The rebuild kit is the same part number for the integra, accord and preludes of those years.

FYI: The rebuild kit is only ~$150 I wish the one for my YS1 was that cheap...(~450) :(

[buymysoul]

Big thanks to Phydeaux for writing this up!!
Official 3rd Gen Accord 1st Gen Integra Hybrid Transmission How-To.

Parts List:
3rd gen Accord or post `86 2nd gen Prelude transmission bell housing. Si for a 2.0L style flywheel, or DX for a 1.8L style.

1st gen Integra (86-89) transmission

Optional:

Rebuild kit
Accord 5th gear assembly
Phantom Grip limited slip conversion



I am going to assume that you have already removed the transmission from your car, your car was originally equipped with a 5speed, you have a haynes manual or other guide to help with the actual disassembly and reassebmly of the transmission, and you know how to reinstall the transmission. If not take a look at the other howto's.


Step 1. Clean you parts. Give both of your transmissions a quick cleaning to get all of the loose grease and crap off. They don’t need to be spotless, but you don’t want any of the crap to fall into the case when you reassemble the transmission.

Step 2. Disassemble the Accord transmission. Start with this transmission first, since you will only be using the bell housing a mistake here will be less costly. Its best to have a Haynes manual in front of you for this, they give good detailed instructions with pictures. Place all the parts off to the side where they won’t be confused with the Integra parts. Take the transmission completely apart (you don’t have to worry about removing the shift rod, but it makes cleaning easier).

Step 3. Disassemble the Integra transmission. It’s the same as the Accords, remember how the Accord transmission came apart and try to avoid any mistakes you made last time. Make note of how everything sat so you can put it back together. Parts, especially ones on the shafts, can’t be placed back in upside down.

Step 4. Inspect your parts. Take a look at all the parts you plan to use, make sure that they don’t show signs of excessive wear etc. It’s best to have someone with experience look at the parts. The Accord and Integra syncros are interchangeable.

Step 5. Clean your parts again. Clean out the inside of the case and all of the gears. Get all the metal shavings off the magnet, all the crap out of all the crevices, etc. Make sure that no crap has gotten into the gears, their bearings, or syncros. If you do remove the gears from the shafts make sure to remember exactly how they go back together, things won’t work right if they are upside down (make special note of the slider on the 3rd-4th syncro).

Step 6. Optional, install the phantom grip. If you plan on ever using a phantom grip or any other lsd, now is the time to install it else you’ll have to go through this again.

Step 7. Reassembling the transmission. If you have a rebuild kit use it. The bearings are pretty beefy and were still good even in my ‘85 transmission, but new ones give piece of mind. It goes back together the same way it came apart. Here’s a list of the parts you want to use.
Bell housing and shifting mechanism, Accord
Differential and ring gear, Integra
Main and counter shafts, Integra
Shift forks can come from either trans
Assemble the transmission to the point that you are ready to put the case on.

Step 8. Double-check your work. Look over everything. Make sure that all the gears line up. Make sure that when all the sliders are sitting in neutral that they are all at even heights where they meet the selector. Have someone one else with experience look at it too just to be sure. There is nothing like putting it all back in the car and then finding out you have no 4th gear or something else awry.

Step 9. Finish assembling the case. Make sure it’s free of oil and run a bead of rtv silicon around the mating surface of the case, smoothing it out with your finger. Place the transmission in 3rd gear (pull the shift rod strait out), this little trick makes it a whole lot easier to put the case back on. Slide the case over all the rods, don’t force it, just wiggle it around until it slides down into place. You should be able to use either the Accord or Integra case. I didn’t try the Accords, but the 85 Prelude case doesn’t work. Its best to use the Integra case though, as funstick mentioned when he saw it the oil holes are huge. It should help keep 5th gear alive. Put a few of the bolts in to hold the case down.

Step 10. More double-checking. Place the trans in every gear. Looking at the trans from the back turn the rod counter clockwise and pull it out for first, counter clockwise and push in for second, pull out strait for 3rd, push in strait for 4th, clockwise and pull out for 5th, and clockwise and push in for reverse. Make sure it goes into every gear. It will be hard to move the shaft esp. for reverse. Turn the input in every gear to make sure that every gear engages and turns, except 5th because you haven’t installed that one yet.

Step 11. Final assembly. Put the rest of the case bolts in and tighten them good (22 ft-lbs). Replace 5th gear. You can use either the Accord or the Integra 5th gear. I recommend the Accord 5th for cars that see a lot highway driving. Replace the nuts and torque them to 65ft-lbs. Don’t forget that the main shaft is reverse threaded, and make sure to lock each into the groove with a punch. Check one more time to be sure that 5th gear engages. Spread rtv around the mating surface and bolt on the end cover.

Cross refrence sheet
Code:
86 prelude 87 accord 87 integra
Carbed DX LX-i

Forks
1-2 shift fork 24221-PC8-920 24221-PC8-920 24221-PC8-920
3-4 shift fork 24211-PC8-J00 24211-PC8-J00 24211-PC8-J00
5th shift fork 24201-PB6-910 24201-PB6-910 24201-PB6-910
5th fork shaft 24271-PC8-930 24271-PC8-930 not listed

Differential
diff bearing 91005-PC9-008 91005-PC9-008 91005-PC9-008
diff houseing 41310-PC8-921 41310-PC8-621 41310-PG9-600
diff side gear 41221-PC8-912 41221-PC8-040 41221-PC8-040
diff pinion 41341-PC8-030 41221-PC8-030 not listed
pinion shaft 41321-P21-A00 41321-P21-A00 41321-P21-A00

Counter Shaft
shaft 23220-PC8-662 23220-PC8-671 23220-PG9-600
needle bearing 91101-PC8-J01 91101-PC8-J01 91101-PC8-J01
ball bearing 91004-PC8-J01 91004-PC8-J01 91004-PC8-J01
second bearing 91106-689-008 91106-689-008 91106-689-008
first bearing 91105-PB6-008 91105-PB6-008 91105-PB6-008
first gear 23421-PB6-010 23421-PB6-010 23421-PB6-010
second gear 23432-PC8-325 23432-PC8-J20 23432-PG9-305
third gear 23471-PC8-910 23471-PC8-J21 23471-PG9-600
fourth gear 23481-PC8-000 23481-PC8-J21 23481-PG9-600
fifth gear 23461-PC8-960 23461-PC8-J21 23461-PG9-600
3rd 4th spacer 23917-PB6-000 23917-PB6-000 23917-PB6-000

Main shaft
shaft 23211-PC8-962 23211-PC8-J21 23211-PG9-010
ball bearing 91002-PC8-J02 91002-PC8-J02 91002-PC8-J02
needle bearing 91103-PC8-018 91103-PC8-J01 91103-PC8-J01
third bearing 91104-634-008 91104-634-008 91104-634-008
fourth bearing 91104-634-008 91104-634-008 91104-634-008
fifth bearing 91104-634-008 91104-634-008 91104-634-008
third gear 23442-PC8-315 23442-PC8-J20 23442-PG9-305
fourth gear 23451-PC8-000 23451-PC8-J21 23451-PG9-600
fifth gear 23581-PC8-960 23581-PC8-J21 23581-PG9-600

Reverse
idler gear 23540-PC8-J01 23540-PC8-J01 23540-PC8-J01
23540-PC8-000 (2 parts listed for lude)
shaft 23261-PC8-000 23261-PC8-000 23261-PC8-000


Personal notes:

If you can avoid it, don't use an 85 Prelude trans. Its possible, everything works if you use all of the Integra parts. If you’re doing this for a carbed Prelude or 2g Accord use the 86. The case of the 85 is shorter as are the 3rd/4th shift fork and the 5ht shift fork and the needle bearing in the bell housing is smaller. The Integra diff should work fine with the accord. I have one of each and I can't tell the difference. Remember that I have the smaller gen2 axles so I used the gen2 dif with the Integra ring gear. A phantom grip requires a break in period of 60 miles or so, that isn’t mention that in the instructions. Other then that the phantom grip is a breeze to install. This isn’t something for a beginner; I had trouble with it and I have a bit of expierence (not with transmissions though). If you go for it and are unsure of yourself make sure you have a back up plan just incase something doesn’t go right. This is something that you’re going to spend the better part of a weekend doing. If you plan to rebuild make sure that you have access to bearing pullers. Make sure you have the manual, you're going to need it.

[85SiHybrid]

bymysoul,

thanks for the info, I really appreciate it. Do you happen to know the ratio on the 86-87 accord 5th gear?

Cj

[buymysoul]

When searching for it a few months ago, I came across the number .694 as the prelude and accord 5th. I am a little skeptical of that number because it is exactly the same as the L3 HF 5th.

I figure it is the only cheap option for the CG tranny that I think will work, so I plan to do it whatever the ratio is (you know...after I get a crx and a D16A1 swap ;) )
I drove a 88 LS for a little while and while it got great gas milage, I really hated that 5th. I would always look at the tach and think I was in 4th....and the 86-87 is even worse.

If you can't find a cheap tranny to source parts from, you should try www.hondaautomotiveparts.org If I deciphered the diagrams right I think the 2 gears you'll need are only around $100 new (together). Although there is no telling whether they can still get them or not...

[85SiHybrid]

The early accord trannies are easy to find in the yards around my place in WA so next month when I get home I am gunna pick one up.

Cj

[redteg87]

Let us know how it goes, CJ.

I've looked into this swap. I think I'll need a close-ratio 5th gear for my drag racing though. Unless I can figure out a way to make 4th gear last to 115mph... :lol: