front control arms bushings OEM or Urethane?

[areskzc]

For a time I felt my steering wheel very quick under turns... yeah Power steering but so quick that eventually felt the car go oversteering... I raised the car and the pass side wheel have a damn play, checked the links they are ok... went deeper, it's the control arm, one of the bushing is craked baaad!

So, how hard is a bushing replacement DIY? From 1 to 10?

And Shall I get OEM ones or upgrade to urethane?

Thank you

[Dweezil]

It's like a 2. Just get the ES master kit, worth every penny.

[The_Acid_Beaver]

I don't recomend any poly bushings as they may not allow the suspension to move correctly. Many auto-xers and road racers are now returning to stock bushings in thier cars as the Poly units don't last as long as new stock and seem to bind the suspension and limit travel.

Replacing bushings can be a 1 or a 10. It depends on the overall condition of the car. If it's rusty and crusty, it will be an 11, if it's a decent car, 1. Many people burn out the rubber (which I don't recomend as heat is not something that should be applied to suspension members in that amount), but if the bushing is that bad, it shouldn't be too hard to cut out the rubber. I usually use a very coarse-toothed hack saw blade for that. Once you get a majority of the rubber out, the easiest way to get the metal ring out is to carefully saw through the ring with a metal hacksaw blade. I would like to state that yes, it's a pain in the but to take it all the way out, but it is SOOO much easier to cut the metal rings out if the piece you are working on is clamped chest height in a bench vise! Leaving the piece in place on the car is a pain to work with! After you get the metal ring out, it is a VERY good idea to lightly sandpaper or wire wheel the hole in the suspension piece. I would even go so far as to slightly chamfer the edge of the hole to make the insertion of the new bushing easier. To press in the new bushing, several methods may be used: Using a hydraulic press (the easiest in most cases), using a large bench vise with a pipe extension on the screw, and finally, using a large C-clamp. In order to keep the bearing "safe" from distortion, you need to apply pressure directly to the outer metal ring of the bushing, not on the rubber or the center metal portion. This is very important as these bushings are NOT designed to resist side loading. You can alleviate this problem by using a socket of the appropriate out diameter, but I find that using thick steel plate with a hole drilled or cut so that the center metal piece can remain in it's nuetral position. This also provides the most support and the most clamping area to maximize the pressure applied. For all bushings, make sure you press them in only the required amount. (Some of the bushings in the rear only get pressed about half way in.) And then re-install the suspension piece. Before you torque the bolts down, apply pressure to the suspension so that the weight of that corner of the car is resting on the suspension. I find that the stock jack makes this part very easy. Once the weight is resting on the suspension, torque the bolts down. This is to make sure that the bushings are not pre-loaded which will cause undue wear and tear on the bushings, and may also cause binding similar to using poly bushings. I would also recomend that you coat the through-bolts' shafts with anti-seize. This should keep them from rusting in place, and make disassembly easier in the future.

[DirtyDC4]

I recommend poly bushings for every suspension component EXCEPT trailing arms. And if you get the master kit, don't bother with the steering rack bushings.

They are, without a doubt, ten times better than rubber. They made a bigger difference in how my car handles than did the full-bodied Skunk2 coilovers I have.

[superdewey58]

cool info, i want some urthane now

[Haysoos]

I don't recomend any poly bushings as they may not allow the suspension to move correctly. Many auto-xers and road racers are now returning to stock bushings in thier cars as the Poly units don't last as long as new stock and seem to bind the suspension and limit travel.

Any evidence to back this up? Because I have NEVER heard that, in like 10 years I've been interested in cars. Well, except the trailing arm bushings, I hear to NEVER get those, for the reasons that you list.

[spdracer22]

Any evidence to back this up? Because I have NEVER heard that, in like 10 years I've been interested in cars. Well, except the trailing arm bushings, I hear to NEVER get those, for the reasons that you list.

Agreed. The trailing arms are the only arms that move in more than one axis. (or should, anyway)

[The_Acid_Beaver]

Moose from The SOHC and a few others have expounded on the effects of poly trailing arm bushings. I also have ridden in cars with fully poly kits and some of them just felt "weird." There seems to be some odd issues as far as ride and handling consistency. Some cars squeek and some don't. Some cars vibrate a heck of a lot more, some don't. I've also seen pics of poly bushings looking worse after a year or so than new stock bushings. I like the poly shifter bushings, though. They take care of sloppy shifters nicely. The Engine mount inserts are also great. With so many people saying so many different things, I have just decided to stick with stock bushings and replace them every ten years. heh
This thread sums up my concerns:
http://www.sohchonda.com/forums/Clocking-My-Trailing-Arm-Bushings-For-Lowering-t11005.html

[kyle h.]

^^ good read.

[gloryhog]

^^ good read.

yes it was...I have the ES trailing arm bushings and have not had any problems but I will be replacing them with OEM in the near future simply for the comfort and peace of mind.

[Steve-O]

i have the ES master set for my civic (including the rack bushings) as well as the rear TA bushings. much debate rages on over the TA bushings and poly bushings in general. to this day i have nothing but good things to say about how my car handles and the added level of performance the ES bushings have given my car.

snap oversteer? sorry guys but i guess someone is just going to have to drive my car and physically show me what it is because i've learned to drive my car the way it is and it's normal to me :roll:. binding? maybe with everything else stock but with progess sport springs, front 21mm stabilizer bar and illumina adjustable shocks set on 5, the suspension is quite stiff and movement is minimal.

IMO for the price, longevity and ease of installation and maintenance of poly bushings, i will never put an oem rubber bushing back on my car again.

[DirtyDC4]

snap oversteer? sorry guys but i guess someone is just going to have to drive my car and physically show me what it is because i've learned to drive my car the way it is and it's normal to me

Try turning at about 35-40 while on the brakes ever so slightly. Your ass end will feel like a 240, mine does. ;)

[transzex]

thats trail braking :)

I've driven a car with poly TA bushing near it's limit......if the track is smooth and so are you, you can get by.....but one extra steering input, crack in the surface, etc....the springs rates go damn near solid.......and the ass trys to do the steering. With high rate springs (1000 lb/in) you can get away with it, but not on the street.

I know this vid shows drop throttle then brake oversteer, but the same thing will happen with poly's in the back when they bind.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1146225276929284369&q=Civic+wreck&hl=en

[Steve-O]

Try turning at about 35-40 while on the brakes ever so slightly. Your ass end will feel like a 240, mine does. ;)i have.

i've driven the river road (our local twisty road) just outside of town here more times than i can count. they have speed-rated bends ranging from 50km/hr up to 70km/hr as well as long mellow left and right handers with the usual 80km/hr limit. i've braked in all those corners at speeds anywhere between 50km/hr to VERY WELL beyond their posted limits at high speeds. i'm not going to jinx myself but i'm still here and the car felt normal to me and handled like it always does.

not saying at all that you guys are wrong. i didn't know anything about binding or snap oversteer prior to putting them in and when i was told about it, i always just assumed that i just got used to it and have subconsciously adapted my driving style to compensate for it.

i'd seriously have to be taken for a ride in my car and have someone intentionally try to make it happen for me to feel what it is.

[DirtyDC4]

Only time I felt the supposed snap oversteer was on an offramp that curved right. I took it kinda fast and the ass end just walked out on me while I was on the throttle.

I'm going to swap them out for rubber ones in the near future just for the heck of it.

[Run Away]

In the next 2 weeks I'm going to be replacing all my bushings on my EF and I was just going to get the ES kit then buy some stock trailing arm ones...

My car is bone stock otherwise and will probably remain that way for the most part, and my driving conditions include severe snow/winter driving in temps up to -40.

Should I maybe reconsider getting poly bushings then?

[Steve-O]

Only time I felt the supposed snap oversteer was on an offramp that curved right. I took it kinda fast and the ass end just walked out on me while I was on the throttle.

I'm going to swap them out for rubber ones in the near future just for the heck of it.

In the next 2 weeks I'm going to be replacing all my bushings on my EF and I was just going to get the ES kit then buy some stock trailing arm ones...

My car is bone stock otherwise and will probably remain that way for the most part, and my driving conditions include severe snow/winter driving in temps up to -40.

Should I maybe reconsider getting poly bushings then?get the new updated honda ones if you do :TU:. they're supposed to be stiffer and more durable than the original ones

[DirtyDC4]

get the new updated honda ones if you do :TU:. they're supposed to be stiffer and more durable than the original ones

Yeah, basically the Mugen ones.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, basically the Mugen ones.ya, that's what i've read.

i didn't have a mugen one to compare but the new ones that we install at the dealership feel pretty stiff right out of the plastic bag

[Dysturbed_90dx_4dr]

Yeah, basically the Mugen ones.

This be good news to me!!!!:TU:

[Run Away]

Alright I'm on www.slhondaparts.com trying to figure out exactly what I need...

This is what I have so far:

52393-SR3-004 BUSH, ARM (UPPER)
52343-SH3-004 BUSH, COMPENSATOR
52365-SH3-000 BUSH, RR. ARM
52395-SH3-004 BUSH, RR. ARM
52622-SH3-010 BUSH, RR. (LOWER)
51316-SH3-000 BUSH, FR. STABILIZER
51395-SH3-003 BUSH, FR. RADIUS ROD
51393-SH3-003 BUSH, FR. ARM
51810-SH3-004 BUSH, SHOCK ABSORBER

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/9496/partskv0.jpg

I'm pretty confused about quantities though.
I'm thinking I have to double the quantities because right now I only have enough for one side.
Are there any bushings where more than 1 of each is needed per side?

[gloryhog]

yeah it looks as if you only have one side ordered.

[areskzc]

Where can I buy the ES master kit?
ES has not (as far I serched for it, a homepage) Where do I buy their bushings... Also interested in a muffler I saw once.