sohc vs sohc vtec

[cxserver]

so ive noticed a vast majority of sohc people want to go vtec. why? It seems to me , besides better gas milage, both engines end up in similar dyno and 1\4 mile example old d16a6 vs. d16y8

Baseline 97.2 100.7
AEM cold-air intake 99.8 2.6 107.0 6.3
Skunk2 Mega Power exhaust 106.0 6.2 109.3 2.3
DC Sports ceramic header 111.6 5.6 112.6 3.3
Final 111.6 14.4 112.6 11.9

d16y8 HP Level HP+ TQ Level TQ+

Baseline 106.1 94.0
Weapon-R Secret Weapon intake 109.3 3.2 95.8 1.8
GReddy EVO2 exhaust 112.9 3.6 97.5 1.7
GReddy stainless header 118.9 6.0 99.9 2.4
Final 118.9 12.8 99.9 5.9

[cxserver]

From past experiances the sohc vtecs feel more like the engine bogs until the vtec kicks in, vs being in the same power band the whole time without the vtec. stock non vtec vs vtec, the y8s power band looks pretty choppy compared to the a6.

[Haysoos]

I'm kinda interested in what people think about this.

[jimmyb34]

yay... another which is better thread.....
imo if you have a 1.6 non vtec stay with it.. if you have a 1.6 vtec.. stay with it.. if you have a 1.5 swap for whatever 1.6 you can find cheaper

[cxserver]

agreed, but why add vtec when the non vtec is cheeper and just as effective in the way of dyno numbers and 1\4 mile times? For the sound of vtak?

[Eyal 951]

just curious, any of you non vtec people making 122 wtq, especially with stock head and valves?

[K2e2vin]

VTEC is just for drive ability/fuel economy with some top range. People seriously overrate VTEC. My friend that owns two Camaro's, thinks VTEC is fast(his little bro fed him this info)...

A lot of race motors are VTEC-less because they have no need for the low-end lobes. This reduces a little rotating weight, reciprocating weight(VTEC rocker), and frees up a little oil pressure(probably negligible), and simplifies tuning a little.

Specifically, for the D-series, the VTEC heads have larger valves IIRC, larger valves, and more camshaft options.

[cxserver]

their was a guy , he had a built a6 and he dynoed it against his friends stock b16 but i cant find the forum, he put down like 137whp vs 135whp b16 ,but cant find the tq specs. maybe someone knowson here.

[ryan89crx]

there was already like a 15 page thread debating vtec and non...

its preference really. a sohc vtec wont make any more power than a comparable non vtec setup

[pandorasbox]

I wonder how a B-series with Toda killer cams verse a non-vtec would compare? Vtec all the time VS no vtec?

[EG8SIR]

More like why does the ZC make some much torque compared to other D series motors. So far most people i see barely hit 100lb-ft of torque when my SOHC ZC Vtec barely dips below on the econo side of the cam, and is flat all the way across. Would even be better to see how the curve is now that vtec works like it suppose to.

Mods, Fake J's K&N Copy, DC Sports 4-2-1, Greddy Evo Catback, Untuned. With a dented oil pan, making vtec activate really late due to poor oil pressure

[s_18]

its preference really. a sohc vtec wont make any more power than a comparable non vtec setup
No, but most likely it will have a more street friendly idle.
It will also probably be easier to get past inspection...

A Civic sounding much like a Harley might get in some trouble, atleast where I come form.
But if this is of no concern, then the non-vtec might be just as good.

[cxserver]

More like why does the ZC make some much torque compared to other D series motors. So far most people i see barely hit 100lb-ft of torque when my SOHC ZC Vtec barely dips below on the econo side of the cam, and is flat all the way across. Would even be better to see how the curve is now that vtec works like it suppose to.

Mods, Fake J's K&N Copy, DC Sports 4-2-1, Greddy Evo Catback, Untuned. With a dented oil pan, making vtec activate really late due to poor oil pressure
zc as sohc non vtec zc,vtec zc(d15b)or dohc zc?

[ryan89crx]

No, but most likely it will have a more street friendly idle.
It will also probably be easier to get past inspection...just realized this was in the NA section, was going to disagree about the idle :P

[EG8SIR]

no, SOHC ZC Vtec its JDM D16Z6. Its 1.6L SOHC Vtec

[jimmyb34]

zc as sohc non vtec zc,vtec zc(d15b)or dohc zc?

d15b and zc vtec are completely different motors.....

[Eyal 951]

the biggest issue about vtec, from what i gather, is that the intake valves are pushed too far out, ands the cylinder walls end up not allowing the valves to flow as well. Since my engine is .040 over (1mm overbore) I end up with simular distances as the non vtec's. So basically i have the advantages of the non vtec motors, with larger valves, more displacement, and, well... vtec.

144 whp
122 wtq (any other semi-mild builds making that? its all in the 1mm over, flat top pistons, and y8 head)

This summer , i will have headwork done, valves (stock size, since larger vavles will probably be an issue) move to stage 3 crower, and itb's. With a better then DC header, i don't see why 170 whp isn't possible.

[JaredKaragen]

yay... another which is better thread.....
imo if you have a 1.6 non vtec stay with it.. if you have a 1.6 vtec.. stay with it.. if you have a 1.5 swap for whatever 1.6 you can find cheaper

... and I'll stay with my D15B and be happier than both!

[EG8SIR]

Take your D15B to the track and lemme know the times:hammer:

[jimmyb34]

... and I'll stay with my D15B and be happier than both!

thats what someone i know said until i almost rearended him when he took off lol
show me a dyno of a d15b putting out more power with the same mods across the powerband than a zc vtec or z6.. an dill kiss your ass
but from everythign im seeing most of the zc vtec dynos are higher than a z6...

[EG8SIR]

D15B fully tuned, with Intake

[d-ranged]

woohoo a pissing match lol

[BigTuna]

Just build what you want and let your own personal numbers make your statement.

[A.G.System]

You can have the fastest car in the world ..... still doesn't mean that you are a good driver.

[Mcglude]

....... :stfu:

Its all personal preference...period!

[Eyal 951]

You can have the fastest car in the world ..... still doesn't mean that you are a good driver.
random.

[jimmyb34]

You can have the fastest car in the world ..... still doesn't mean that you are a good driver.

random.. yes.... lol

....... :stfu:

Its all personal preference...period!

who are you again??? and what do you drive??? personal preference has nothing to do with what was asked

[ryan89crx]

woohoo a pissing match loluh huh

:jesus:

[cxserver]

d15b and zc vtec are completely different motors.....
why .1 displacement diffrence. So its a sohc zc with a z6 head? So it makes 140hp being part the higher compresion? So a z6 and a zc vtec are still simaler besides probably the ecu,head and cam?

[s_18]

The D16 also has a larger stroke, that gives it larger torque capasity...
Some say it's a drawback, others a benefit... I think I like the feeling of decent torque on lower revs.

This is one topic we'll never get everybody to agree on. Just leave it be...
Some like the daughter, other like the mother... A way to express it I've heard several times...

[88cr-rex]

I think I like the feeling of decent torque on lower revs.


:D

If it wasn't for the fact I couldn't stick a stick behind a 385 series motor . . .

At any rate, the first graphs are off. A mustang dyno will read lower than a dynojet so the graphs get a lot closer when you factor that in. More torque, what a concept.

[transzex]

http://wiki.coolmon.org/files/cookie.jpg

[slowex98]

who cares build what you got...

[marcin]

http://www.theoldexchange.fsnet.co.uk/brown%20desk%20lamp.JPG

[shaundrake]

You guys are all crazy. First of all, a VTEC motor is not just a non-
VTEC motor with VTEC added on. The low lobes were optimized for low to mid power, the high lobes were optimized for the top end. The result is a much broader powerband. The non VTEC motors have serious compromises in the low and top end.

Having driven stock VTEC and non VTEC motors side by side for a long period of time, I have to say that the VTEC motors are faster from a stop, and much much faster on the freeway on ramp. I'm taking trannies and chassis into account. Obviously an Si has a lot more weight than a DX with a D16Z6/Y8/ZC swap and so it's at a disadvantage. On the other hand, if you swap the VTEC motor into the DX but keep the DX tranny, it will be a lot slower than the Si.

The acceleration you feel is due in large part to the trannies. If you swap in a VTEC motor, swap in an EX/Si tranny. Otherwise you'll be sadly disappointed. Automatics aren't slow because of the fact they're automatic. They're slow because of the gear ratios. The gearing is mild because A) there's only four, B) Honda didn't put quick ratios on the automatics because they don't view it as performance.

I'm not one to worship VTEC. I think it's great for the street, it's great for amateur modders like myself and 99% of us. But if your only concern is all out top end power, VTEC is not a concern.

[cxserver]

You guys are all crazy. First of all, a VTEC motor is not just a non-
VTEC motor with VTEC added on. The low lobes were optimized for low to mid power, the high lobes were optimized for the top end. The result is a much broader powerband. The non VTEC motors have serious compromises in the low and top end.

Having driven stock VTEC and non VTEC motors side by side for a long period of time, I have to say that the VTEC motors are faster from a stop, and much much faster on the freeway on ramp. I'm taking trannies and chassis into account. Obviously an Si has a lot more weight than a DX with a D16Z6/Y8/ZC swap and so it's at a disadvantage. On the other hand, if you swap the VTEC motor into the DX but keep the DX tranny, it will be a lot slower than the Si.

The acceleration you feel is due in large part to the trannies. If you swap in a VTEC motor, swap in an EX/Si tranny. Otherwise you'll be sadly disappointed. Automatics aren't slow because of the fact they're automatic. They're slow because of the gear ratios. The gearing is mild because A) there's only four, B) Honda didn't put quick ratios on the automatics because they don't view it as performance.

I'm not one to worship VTEC. I think it's great for the street, it's great for amateur modders like myself and 99% of us. But if your only concern is all out top end power, VTEC is not a concern. Any proof of this broader power band top, end and torqe? cant ague a point with out proof.

[transzex]

so your saying I spent $500 on a D16Z6 in 1998 and my et's only improved .06 seconds and 1.2 mph faster trap speeds, .012 difference at 1/8 mile.....

D15B7

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m307/bonespec/Honda/RR/timeslip15.jpg

D16Z6

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m307/bonespec/Honda/RR/timeslip16.jpg


D15B7 with free A6 cam and $20 Z6 intake......everything else was the same.

D16Z6 which in your opinon

I have to say that the VTEC motors are faster from a stop

bogged the launch and little puny D15B7 walked out only to caught 1/2 track.

BTW: I'm a good enough driver to repeat those numbers.....for example.......

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m307/bonespec/Honda/RR/timeslip1485.jpg

chicken vs. the egg :)

[siregcivic]

Just build what you want and let your own personal numbers make your statement.

:TU: :TU:

pretty much... in all honesty.. over half the reason i run vtec is because the cam switchover... i love the feeling from accelerating quick and when the vtec engages ( expecially with the turbo ) its like.. ok bye bye..

getting 30mpg with a turbo setup is awesome..... sometimes i think of trading the vtec head in for an a6 head just to see how i like it.. but i know i would miss the switchover with the vtec..

i honestly think both setups either way can be nice... same setup vs same setup non vtec vs vtec... the non vtec would pull off the line, but the vtec would catch up top end i bet:TU:

[BoogiepopJDM]

how does the saying go "6 one way half the dozen the other"

[transzex]

exactly.........

plus if people looked at the timing maps, you'd understand that the motors are equal when tuned.

Honda detune a motor so when VTEC engages driver goes OMFG??????

Look at the K20, case proven :)

[Dibble]

I have had vtec and nonvtec setups. My z6 on the 50shot ran almost the same my a6 ran on the 50shot. I like them both. I wish I could get my new motor runing right, then I could say I have a vtec and a nonvtec car.

[Haysoos]

The only reason Vtec is around is so you have some power but good gas milage on the bottom end, and you get a performance cam on the top end. For the Ds, I don't really think it matters a whole lot. I mean, there are domestic (Well, not technically domestic) 4 cylinders that rev to 6500 without variable timing. Now, on a civic type-R or a s2000, it allows them to toss a cam in that rapes the high RPM, without sacrificing driveability in the low end.

So basically, vtec = low end drivability, NOT performance, since that can be had with a simple cam change. Not saying that it doesn't make a difference, but it would make sense that there would be little difference for performance between the vtec and non-vtec, until you got into the really high RPMs.

Thats all opinion BTW, thought up on the spot, so don't quote me like I'm trying to spew facts. :D

[90EFsi]

i really dont care about the thread but i just want o say that i would much rather that the vtec
i was racing a ef hatch on the highway with my ef hatch and i was like just behind him and vtec kicked in and i heard it then he was gone i couldnt keep up

[AMkrew_1]

i really dont care about the thread but i just want o say that i would much rather that the vtec
i was racing a ef hatch on the highway with my ef hatch and i was like just behind him and vtec kicked in and i heard it then he was gone i couldnt keep up

was it MaD jDm VtAAcK y0? lol.

How about I throw a wrench into the machine...

VTEC-E= teh Winner.

-josh-

[turtleEK1]

as stated by many, just work what you got...

all depends on aftermarket support, here in australia, the non- vtec d motors have VERY little support! d16z6's and d16y8's have all the good stuff!

[transzex]

The only reason Vtec is around is so you have some power but good gas milage on the bottom end, and you get a performance cam on the top end.

But I got 53 mpg on a Crane 251-0012 cam with a stock DX gearbox, made 121.2 whp on a mustang dyno (128-130 whp dynojet)

So I got VX gas mileage, yet better than 1.6L VTEC power.........

BTW that engnie combo will be dynoed this weekend on same Raceline dyno, ONLY change will be I put in a stock A6 cam......

S2K's suck below 5000 rpm, no torque like most other 4 pooper.

"Yo VTEC just kicked in" and go into the better timing maps.........put those same timing maps on a non VTEC motor and guess what......IT HAULS ASS!!!!!!!!

Then try some VTEC-E timing/fuels maps on a nonVTEC motor and get killer gas mileage.


Did you ever stop to think that Honda was FUCKING people over with their lame maps? We'll, they were!

[transzex]

BTW, put me into the Smokey Yunick/John Lingenfelter category.....you'll understand one day.

WHEN I'm DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!

[Eyal 951]

sooo, any non vtec builds making 122 wtq?

[The_Acid_Beaver]

That better not be before I can get out there and you can school me in the ways of tranny crap! I've started my engine build. The tranny will be next!

[93delsolvtec]

lol...holy shit ya'll went at it in this thread...took me 15 min to read it all but love both sides.....i love my vtec especially when it works ("when it works")..but i like the power from it...like the kitten turning into the lion at 5500 rpm's (or what ever you engage at)...fuel economy should be a thing to keep being that most of us are budget builders so all the loot we save can go into the car...but thats my two cents....if i had a non-vtec i would just forget about vtec and just build....build what you got

[transzex]

sooo, any non vtec builds making 122 wtq?

yes with 1.5L, your point?

[Eyal 951]

flat curve across the rpm range? got a dyno?

[Eyal 951]

flat curve across the rpm range? got a dyno?
not to mention stock head ports and short ram intake.