Limits of DSM 450 injectors?

[itstock]

IM currently running some blue top dsm 450 injectors. Now my goal is to make right around 250whp on the d16a6 once it gets back from the machine shop. The dsm injectors should be capable of supplying enough fuel for this? will i be at the borderline of maxxing these things out? thanks

[TurboEF9]

Ya.. you'll be fine with 450cc. They max out at about 300whp still running at the allotted 80% duty cycle. Granted you could push on higher than 80%, but that is considered an extereme running point with induces failure of the injector if it is subjected to it for a long period of time.

[itstock]

thanks for all the replies turboef9, it is greatly appreciated.

[NastyHabitzCRX]

In my current set-up the mitsu injectors are running 80% at only 8psi. If i turn up the boost to 10psi they will be almost maxing out at a 95% duty cycle. My exepected whp? somewhere close to 200 but defialetly not over that.

[TurboEF9]

80% at 8psi? Are you sure about that? That's seems exteremely low. I was running 10psi (witha 14b) on a Y7/Y8 mini, and had plenty of room for air.

[NastyHabitzCRX]

Yes I am sure, my tuner using Hondata showed me the graphs from, the tune. I can't say whether or not usinga 14b turbo or not would leave more room, but since I am using Nissan 300 ZX T3 it is already almost maxed out, but the turbo isnt!. For me myself I need bigger rc injectors, if I want to go to about 10 psi and hold an 80% duty cycle.
Yeah I can stick with the blue top 440s but the hondata tables are showing a 95% duty cycle if I do, and my whole set-up is based primarily on longevity for the motor, and turbo and not peak raw horsepower.
I think I'll post some pics soon and see what you guys think of my set-up.

[TurboEF9]

Hrm, it's possible that they tuned it with a more convervative A/F line.. Something around 12.0, maybe 11.8 to maintain that safety. Basically, pulsing your injectors longer, thus increasing duty cycle, but maintain cooler cylinder temps..

[NastyHabitzCRX]

You got it right on the money dude, I am running like a 12.8 a/f at wot. Like I said my whole set-up is based on keeping everything alive.
The only thing they didn't do is lenghten the injector pulse all that much. When it was tuned the turbo(t-3) was constantly asking for more fuel.
But since the 14b is smaller than the t-3 I would imagine it would be ok for awhile on the 440s

[TurboEF9]

Really? ...12.8? That's a bit on the lean side.

There was a debate brought to my attention by bigwig that was even aruging a 12.5 line being too lean. This was also on a 400whp B16. ;)

Anyway.. if you're running 12.8, you might want to throw 6% more fuel across your whole map. 12.8:1 is much too lean, especially for pump gas.

[Bigwig NJ]

I agree with EF9! Gotta love the name drops....

anyway, 12.8:1 is pushing it on race gas. I dont think there are much gains between 12.8:1 and 12:1 so i would suggest leaning out a bit. Most suggest a linear AF line ranging from 12.5:1 to 11.8:1 As long as your AFR line is in that region you have a nice safe af line and will be more than fine on pump gas.

As for the car being in 95% duty cycle at 8psi, i find that hard to believe. a GSR is at like 90% duty cycle at 8psi but thats also pushing 300whp. This may or may not be true, but it seems that compression directly affects the whp limits of your injectors. EX: a GSR or B16 can make 300whp on DSM 450's but a B18b1 maxes out around 275whp. I dont know if it has a direct corrilation to torque which is the real measure of horse power, but it you cant always go by those numbers.

In any case on most D series you can expect to get 250-300whp out of 450cc injectors. In your case with the DSMs maxing out at only 8psi, maybe the injectors arent flowing the correct amount? They should be at about 85% at 11-12psi

[TurboEF9]

I dont think there are much gains between 12.8:1 and 12:1 so i would suggest leaning out a bit.

Typo I hope... :P

[Bigwig NJ]

typo? Shit everyone knows that hondas are supposed to run a 14.7:1 AFR at all times!

No, it was a typo for those of you who dont know sarcasm. 12.5:1-12:1 is the AFR you are looking for. It shouldnt be spikey or anything...nice and flat. same with your torque curve. between 5k-redline you want your tq. "curve" to look like a table top